Do you think two foul ball in hand,will ever make a come back,boy i miss those rules,which rules do you prefer?
Two foul,push out 9 ball.
- Thread starter richiebalto
- Start date
Discussed too often here.
Proponents of pushout believe they should never be victims of a lucky safe or a 2-way shot/ shafe.
Opponents believe there is no reason an incoming player should be able to shoot from anywhere other than where the CB lies.
Proponents of pushout believe they should never be victims of a lucky safe or a 2-way shot/ shafe.
Opponents believe there is no reason an incoming player should be able to shoot from anywhere other than where the CB lies.
Not likely, Richie. Unfortunatey "originally made for TV" Texas Express rules are permanently bolted to the hip (and mindsets) of 9-ballers, and some folks are *so* married to Texas Express, that they actually try to "reach up" into the new professional replacement world of 10-ball, but carry Texas Express rules with them. (Yep, if you can imagine it, 9-ballers racking 10-ball, with T.E. rules, "claiming" they're "playing 10-ball" -- as if they should get ooos and aaahs from bystanders because the 9-baller "graduated" into a tougher game. Obviously, the only thing that 9-baller changed, was the shape of the rack. That's it.)
If you want something along the lines of 9-balls bygone pushout past, you might want to play 10-ball, according to world-standardized (WPA) rules. Some tours -- most notably the Seminole Tribe 10-ball and Tony Robles' Predator Open/Pro 10-ball, as well as the Open/Pro 10-ball event at the Super Billiards Expo -- use the following two extra rules to the WPA rules:
- A missed shot gives option to the incoming player to accept the table as-is, or to make the previous player shoot again (this is so that the incoming player is not punished for the previous player's slop)
- A called safety that pockets a ball gives option to the incoming player (this is to minimize the silliness where a player wants to get rid of a duck/hanger, but doesn't want to deal with the rest of the table; e.g.: he/she calls "safety" and shoots the duck in, letting the incoming player deal with the table)
-Sean
Sean, played a tourney recently with these rules, seemed to take some aggressiveness out of the game. Why shoot a borderline shot, just play safe. What do you think?
I definitely prefer the 2fbih rules we played in the 60's and 70's........ and no jump cues either! Jump "full table with a meucchi! LOL
IMHO this would be much better for the game........
to bad. . so sad
It's like Bush looking for weapons of mass destruction, not finding any, then continuing with whatever was in his agenda. Texas Express Rules was created for TV? What TV? Don't you think 1 foul was a knee jerk reaction that changed the integrety of 9 ball for the worse? But, I can see that it appealed to the smallest common denominator in the pool world, those that can't play it. You can argue all you want about 1 foul BIH all day long and bring up all the points you want, but look at what it's done. . pussified the game and no one wants to watch that kind of play. I'm I right or am I wrong? It draws spectators like a yawning contest ..
It's like Bush looking for weapons of mass destruction, not finding any, then continuing with whatever was in his agenda. Texas Express Rules was created for TV? What TV? Don't you think 1 foul was a knee jerk reaction that changed the integrety of 9 ball for the worse? But, I can see that it appealed to the smallest common denominator in the pool world, those that can't play it. You can argue all you want about 1 foul BIH all day long and bring up all the points you want, but look at what it's done. . pussified the game and no one wants to watch that kind of play. I'm I right or am I wrong? It draws spectators like a yawning contest ..
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Dave:
You raise a good point, and one that a lot of 9-ballers bring up when playing 10-ball correctly for the first time. Tony (Robles) gets this question all the time. The answer is that yes, "two-way shots" are an unfortunately casualty of these rules, but the intent is to bring a couple other things back into the game: "commitment" and "accountability." That is, you either commit to the shot, or to a safety, and accept the responsibility/accountability for the outcome. All too often, players want a "free shot" with no consequences, or a "lock," and the T.E. rules have been distorted over the years to conform to this unspoken "need." Back in the days of pushout 9-ball, at least you had the pushout move to use as a weapon.
10-ball *forces* a player to commit -- either to a shot, or to a safety -- and be accountable for it. Sure, it makes players think twice about that low-percentage shot; if you call it and miss, you pay the price. So yes, you'll see players use their noggin' more, and make more judicious use of safeties. It can take the edge off of the "b*lls to the wall" style of play, but in a way, if you think about it, it also doesn't have to -- it can *force* the player into that mode, if he/she is comfortable being there, and doesn't mind being accountable if he/she misses ("as long as I don't miss, I'm fine"). That's why 10-ball is a much more professional-caliber game than 9-ball. If you talk to any pro-level player, they'll say the same thing.
Great question!
-Sean
I agree. No jumps. No safeties. Would make for a better game IMO.
I edited my statement so it won't bruise so many egos. You either can play it or you can't.. Those you can't play that way resort to playing safeties. What catagory are you in? Can you or can't you play it? I'm not going to discuss it with someone who can't play it or can't understand it.
I played and like both versions. Both have their good points.
TE brings more players into the picture. IMO it is a great 'equalizer' C players can actually beat an A player with BIH one foul and two balls on the table. It is a much faster game than Push out.
Push out, IMO, will always favor the smarter and more skilled players. (i.e. Push to a bank or easy kick). It also is, IMO, easier to hide your true speed.
TE brings more players into the picture. IMO it is a great 'equalizer' C players can actually beat an A player with BIH one foul and two balls on the table. It is a much faster game than Push out.
Push out, IMO, will always favor the smarter and more skilled players. (i.e. Push to a bank or easy kick). It also is, IMO, easier to hide your true speed.
Well, it's obvious that TE brought more players into the picture (which was its purpose' but what kind of players) but you can't just sum up push out in a general type one sentence statement like yours. There's alot more to it than that. .
Texas Express Rules where not invented for TV....period!!!!!!
These Rules came at a time when they where dearly needed. Tournaments could have more players, longer races and fire-power. This really helped the host room owner and made the Tournament more attractive to the player & spectator.
We still play 2-shot roll out every Thursday night in our ring game. If you don't enjoy Texas Express Rules, then play something else.
Remember: A suggestion turns into a ***** when you don't present a solution.
SPF & Texas Express.....randyg
These Rules came at a time when they where dearly needed. Tournaments could have more players, longer races and fire-power. This really helped the host room owner and made the Tournament more attractive to the player & spectator.
We still play 2-shot roll out every Thursday night in our ring game. If you don't enjoy Texas Express Rules, then play something else.
Remember: A suggestion turns into a ***** when you don't present a solution.
SPF & Texas Express.....randyg
And no banks either...I am with ya, BOb!
No cuts to the left, if the ball is odd#d either.
I grew up playing pussout...
Don't sweat my feeloings but do list all requirements for your potential discussion counterpart.
Randy:
Not sure if you were referring to my post, but 1.) I already "don't" play Texas Express, so the suggestion doesn't apply, and 2.) I already did proffer a suggestion in the form of a solution -- to play 10-ball according to WPA rules.
To each his/her own as far as T.E. goes -- if you like T.E., play 9-ball. If you don't, play 10-ball. There's a reason why the two games exist simultaneously, and why one is taking the other over in pro-level events. The one being taken over doesn't have to go by the wayside -- 9-ball is a great "poolroom-/tournament-filling" game for the regular Joe/Jane, as you mentioned.
-Sean
Don't lie.
Oh yeah; let's drive to a tournament, get a room, eat, spend a s**tload on quarters and play a great safe and watch your opponent push-out on you. Nice Just wondering, how did this come to be known as pool?