Two foul,push out 9 ball.

jay helfert said:
David this is the main way that "push out" or "roll out" pool was played by the top players. Two fouls in a row by the SAME player was BIH. And on a push you either had to shoot or pass it back. No re-push was allowed! Once you shoot after a push out, the first player is off his foul. This way every situation is brand new, not affected by the last push out. I guarantee you this is the way your brother played the game.

All balls re-spot on a scratch and the incoming players has BIH behind the line. Unless it is the second foul in a row, then it is BIH anywhere. On a scratch, after spotting the balls, the incoming player can pass the shot back to the guy who fouled, who's on one now. If the lowest numbered ball is behind the line it spots up. Balls are spotted with the lowest numbered balls first.

Hope this helps. I'd love to go down there next month but the WSOP may get in the way. :wink:
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THANK YOU JAY,i made a misstake on my last post about the rules,what u have said is the exact way we have always played it in baltimore!
 
There is an element of luck in all sports and pool is no different. I prefer
pushout- 2 fouls in a row by the same player BIH. I play all ways so I
really don't care- All I know from playing for 54 years is that the better
player is gonna get the cash any way!
 
jay helfert said:
David this is the main way that "push out" or "roll out" pool was played by the top players. Two fouls in a row by the SAME player was BIH. And on a push you either had to shoot or pass it back. No re-push was allowed! Once you shoot after a push out, the first player is off his foul. This way every situation is brand new, not affected by the last push out. I guarantee you this is the way your brother played the game.

All balls re-spot on a scratch and the incoming players has BIH behind the line. Unless it is the second foul in a row, then it is BIH anywhere. On a scratch, after spotting the balls, the incoming player can pass the shot back to the guy who fouled, who's on one now. If the lowest numbered ball is behind the line it spots up. Balls are spotted with the lowest numbered balls first.

Hope this helps. I'd love to go down there next month but the WSOP may get in the way. :wink:
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Thanks Jay for chiming in, you have a way with explaining things, I knew I wasn't crazy or done lost my mind about how to play this game, hope you do get to show up tho, it will be a great reunion for sure!


David Harcrow
 
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roll out

jay helfert said:
David this is the main way that "push out" or "roll out" pool was played by the top players. Two fouls in a row by the SAME player was BIH. And on a push you either had to shoot or pass it back. No re-push was allowed! Once you shoot after a push out, the first player is off his foul. This way every situation is brand new, not affected by the last push out. I guarantee you this is the way your brother played the game.

All balls re-spot on a scratch and the incoming players has BIH behind the line. Unless it is the second foul in a row, then it is BIH anywhere. On a scratch, after spotting the balls, the incoming player can pass the shot back to the guy who fouled, who's on one now. If the lowest numbered ball is behind the line it spots up. Balls are spotted with the lowest numbered balls first.

Hope this helps. I'd love to go down there next month but the WSOP may get in the way. :wink:
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Both players can be on one which means the player with the first option can most certainly repush if he/she opts. Then someone has to shoot a good hit. After a good hit, both players are on zero. And, as far as spotting the balls, it just depends on if you decide to spot all the balls or one before the money ball before the game starts.
 
canwin said:
Both players can be on one which means the player with the first option can most certainly repush if he/she opts. Then someone has to shoot a good hit. After a good hit, both players are on zero. And, as far as spotting the balls, it just depends on if you decide to spot all the balls or one before the money ball before the game starts.
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There will be no re-push in the Country Calvin Classic. Someone will shoot at the next ball after a push.

Ray
 
catpool9 said:
Thanks Jay for chiming in, you have a way with explaining things, I knew I wasn't crazy or done lost my mind about how to play this game, hope you do get to show up tho, it will be a great reunion for sure!


David Harcrow
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The only way I played or saw it played was any two fouls was bih. Any push by accident or design after a foul was bih.
Apparently, this was played different depending on what part of the country you were in.
 
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Seemed the best compromise

I too only saw ball in hand after two fouls by the same player in consecutive shots n the same inning. The reason for making the second foul by either player after a push out give up ball in hand is to prevent a player from being ungentlemanly. Without a clear penalty the only recourse if someone mistakenly (of purposely) rolls out on a prior push out would be replace the balls where they originally were before the infraction. This could lead to a sticky situation with heated arguing over where the balls really were especially if if affects the layout of the table.

It's regrettable, but it seemed simpler to use the BIH after any foul by either player after a push out rule to enforce 'gentlemanly' behavior. As a friend of mine (a lawyer) once said "If there's no penalty for breaking a rule, then expect the rule to get broken."
 
As long as both players are playing under the same rules, each can find a way to use the rules for their advantage.
 
catpool9 said:
Yes your right, I remember playing it that way during gambling matches, one time Calvin was playing Ermond Bullard,Gary Seay, and Billy Wier down at Cainey City,TX., just south of Dallas back in the early 80's.

Those guy's were eating Calvin's lunch pushing out for the jump shot, making it every single time with the watermelon cue ball, after a few weeks of watching that I told Calvin he had to re-push out for a cut or bank, so we then played the game the way you described.

Roll Out will take somewhat longer to play some matches, hopefully the shot clock will help them along.

Matches between some players will progress rather speedily tho, the ones that don't mess around and run balls, and others will creep slowly.

Roll Out for tournaments tho should be take it/or pass it. IMHO

David Harcrow
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The reason for the other player having the option to(I wouldn't call it a re-push) reposition his Qball is for the strategy of the opponent always trying to push to a jump shot. There's no jumping in this tournament is there?
 
Black-Balled said:
Greeat! By that rule, you push, I push back. Brilliant!

I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.
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I don't like the bank(or whatever) so I push to a jump(or whatever) (you're on 1). I don't like the jump(or whatever) so I push to a bank(or whatever) (I'm on 1) .. . the next person has to make a good hit or it's BIH. So, your senario can't be repeated ..
 
Bigtruck said:
I simply split this up in paragraphs.

Two Foul Ball in Hand Nine Ball

The shooting player (Player A) must strike the lowest numbered ball on the table first with the cue ball, driving either an object ball or the cue ball into a rail in order for the shot to be considered legal.

If a foul is committed by Player A, the incoming player (Player B) has the option of either taking the shot himself or having Player A shoot the shot. (Technically by "rolling out" Player A has intentionally committed a foul.)

If Player B chooses to have Player A shoot then on the next shot Player A executes a legal shot and does not commit a second consecutive foul his foul is erased. If Player A fouls then Player B is awarded ball in hand. (Hence the name of the rules being "Two Foul Ball in Hand.")

Player A's fouls are also erased with the awarding of ball in hand to Player B. Unlike One Foul Ball in Hand it is not possible to lose the game through committing three consecutive fouls.

If Player B chooses to shoot after Player A's first foul, then player A's inning is over and Player A's foul is erased and it does not count against him on his next shot.

If after accepting the Roll Out Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased. (The reason for this rule is to avoid having both players repeatedly roll out without attempting to strike the lowest numbered object ball, thereby stalemating the game.)

If Player A commits a scratching foul: either pocketing the cue ball or knocking the cue ball off the table; the cue ball is placed by the incoming shooter anywhere the they choose above the head string (also known as "in the kitchen"). Because scratching is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or of making Player A take the shot.

If Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B is awarded ball in hand and can then place the cue ball anywhere they wish on the table. If Player B exercises their option and takes the shot themselves and then Player B commits a foul then Player A gets Ball In Hand and player B's fouls are erased.

If a ball is pocketed and there is a foul, the object ball shall be returned to the table on the foot spot only if it is either the nine ball or the last ball on the table before the nine ball. This is termed "spotting one before the money". For example: if Player A shoots at and pockets the seven ball and the cue ball scratches (goes into a pocket or leaves the table) and the eight ball is no longer on the table then the seven ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the incoming Player B gets cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Because a scratch is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot on the spotted seven ball or of making Player A shoot.

If Player B makes Player A shoot and Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B gets Ball In Hand and is allowed to place the cue ball anywhere on the table they wish.

If Player B takes the shot Player A's foul is erased and if Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased.

If Player A fouls by either pocketing the cue ball or knocking it off the table and the lowest numbered ball that is one before the nine is behind the head string that lowest numbered ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the cue ball shall be placed anywhere behind the head string the incoming shooter,Player B wishes.

Again Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or making Player A take the shot and the rules stated before apply.
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OK, think of this senario. Player A pushes and is on 1. Player B shoots but plays a safety. Is player A still on 1? Answer please!
 
canwin said:
OK, think of this senario. Player A pushes and is on 1. Player B shoots but plays a safety. Is player A still on 1? Answer please!
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By shooting/rolling out Player B has ended Player A's inning and erased Player A's foul. Now Player B is on one foul and Player A is on zero.

It's been noted before that this rule can result in a situation where both Players could roll out back and forth forever. Which is why I recommend that after a foul, any foul, by Player A both players are now on One Foul which would make another foul (such as another push out) automatically give up Ball In Hand. Not a perfect solution, because it forces Player B to take a foul they didn't commit, but it avoids the infinite roll out possibility.

If Player B is facing a roll out that their opponent can make and Player B can't, well, they should figure out how to make that shot as soon as possible.
 
canwin said:
OK, think of this senario. Player A pushes and is on 1. Player B shoots but plays a safety. Is player A still on 1? Answer please!
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You are quoting me where I simply split the previous post into paragraphs. It says it right at the top. It doesn't mean that I agree with what he wrote.

If player B makes a good hit after a pushout by player A, both players are back to zero fouls.

This is the beauty of 2 foul by the same person with no re-push. It creates an incentive to shoot for the hole. A safety on a pushout is dumb because player A goes back to zero and can push on the safety.

To review the rules of the Country Calvin Classic go to the tournament thread. ;)

Ray
 
Pushout said:
The only way I played or saw it played was any two fouls was bih. Any push by accident or design after a foul was bih.
Apparently, this was played different depending on what part of the country you were in.
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Yes, just like Eight Ball, there were many variations of the rules in "push out" 9-Ball. I only offered the version that most top players used when gambling back then. In the big money matches I saw, that was how they played.

Often in pool halls, they would play that you spot one ball before the money ball. And they also might play that the five and the nine were both money balls. Like $1 on the five and $2 on the nine. A big game was $5 on the five and $10 on the nine. If you made a money ball early, it got re-spotted and you won the money for making it.

Another common way to play back then was "try to hit the ball." You couldn't play safe at this game. If you failed to hit the ball, your opponent could make you shoot again. Miss it twice and he got BIH. This was usually how you played if you were in a new room and you didn't know anybody. You might start out this way for small money with someone you didn't know. In a more serious game, "roll out" was the most common way to play.

I guess I played pool in more than 300 poolrooms before I bought my first room at age 27. I would find the poolroom(s) in every town I was in right away. :wink:
 
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Roll Out said:
canwin said:
OK, think of this senario. Player A pushes and is on 1. Player B shoots but plays a safety. Is player A still on 1? Answer please!
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By shooting/rolling out Player B has ended Player A's inning and erased Player A's foul. Now Player B is on one foul and Player A is on zero...
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Why would player B be on 1 foul for playing a safety? Wouldn't they both be on no fouls?
 
jay helfert said:
Often in pool halls, they would play that you spot one ball before the money ball. And they also might play that the five and the nine were both money balls. Like $1 on the five and $2 on the nine. A big game was $5 on the five and $10 on the nine. If you made a money ball early, it got re-spotted and you won the money for making it.

Yup, I've played this way

Another common way to play back then was "try to hit the ball." You couldn't play safe at this game. If you failed to hit the ball, your opponent could make you shoot again. Miss it twice and he got BIH. This was usually how you played if you were in a new room and you didn't know anybody. You might start out this way for small money with someone you didn't know. In a more serious game, "roll out" was the most common way to play.

Done this, too!

I guess I played pool in more than 300 poolrooms before I bought my first room at age 27. I would find the poolroom(s) in every town I was in right away. :wink:
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Thanks, Jay, I didn't hear of some of these rules for a good many years.
 
jay helfert said:
Another common way to play back then was "try to hit the ball." You couldn't play safe at this game. If you failed to hit the ball, your opponent could make you shoot again. Miss it twice and he got BIH. This was usually how you played if you were in a new room and you didn't know anybody. You might start out this way for small money with someone you didn't know. In a more serious game, "roll out" was the most common way to play.
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That's the way we always played ring games. We called it "Honest Effort"

Sherm
 
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