Where's that tournament I will play in it! $10 buck is a bargain to play any of them and maybe kick their ass!
Don't know maybe Bankshots ..10.00 bargain..kicking butt...well , could be priceless
Why are professional players broke?
- Thread starter JB Cases
- Start date
Don't know maybe Bankshots ..10.00 bargain..kicking butt...well , could be priceless
If a pool player is to make money on the road you have to have some other skills like, how to play hollywood gin and win every time, and invite the railbirds to play poker, a game where everybody can gamble, or perhaps know how to deal craps, Oh back in the day it was so easy.
I think Willie Mosconi has done a good job of documenting the "time line of pool" in his book Willies Game. He say Pool has been on the decline since the year of his birth 1913. Also he mentions in the 50's other factor like Golf & Tennis taking the pool player out of the Pool Room, and to the Country Club.
If Pool could attract the sponsors like PGA Golf, Tennis, NFL, NASCAR, NBA, MLB, Pool Player could make a decent living off Pool.
IF.
If Pool could attract the sponsors like PGA Golf, Tennis, NFL, NASCAR, NBA, MLB, Pool Player could make a decent living off Pool.
IF.
Spot on, imo. :thumbup2:
I couldn't live that way... but I also know that others can... at least during their 20s, their 30s and even into their 40s. After that, the prospects of having to work until the day that you die loom large.
Either that, or you find a kind and benevolent sugar momma to take good care of you. :thumbup:
Then you read about them on here sick with no insurance still thinking the world owes them something trying to take up a collection. The problem with living an irresponsible life is, when the bill does come due, it will be devastating and don't expect hard working people with their own problems to pick up your tab.
I have a little experience on this topic and can tell you that there is decent money for the pros traveling for a week and a half to two weeks on the road doing exhibitions and teaching. The problem is it can be inconsistant and planning a trip such as this takes time to put together and then maybe a months gap to get the word out.
Also there are only a handfull of players that can go on the road doing exhibitions and teaching. I know a number ofpro players who arewell known on here and that I really like personally and would love to work with but unfortunatley the average league player has no idea who they are and therefore would not pay to see them or pay to have them teach them.
So a player must go through the ranks for years and years, have a great career winning championships and making thecover of the pool mags, getlotsof tv face time before they can go on the road and consistantly make money. Even then after all these things have been accomplished they are not looking at the kind of money that other legendary sports figures make. Still as I said the few can make pretty good money for the time they are out there.
Also there are only a handfull of players that can go on the road doing exhibitions and teaching. I know a number ofpro players who arewell known on here and that I really like personally and would love to work with but unfortunatley the average league player has no idea who they are and therefore would not pay to see them or pay to have them teach them.
So a player must go through the ranks for years and years, have a great career winning championships and making thecover of the pool mags, getlotsof tv face time before they can go on the road and consistantly make money. Even then after all these things have been accomplished they are not looking at the kind of money that other legendary sports figures make. Still as I said the few can make pretty good money for the time they are out there.
You know Mosconi actually had an agent. It is impossible for the player to do all this on their own. Is there any agents that handles any players getting them gigs? Also can you give us a run down on how you go about setting up your mini tours? Do you have an advance person, any media packets that you send out to try to draw local media etc.?
No one is looking to steal your ideas but it would be a little inspirational to hear from someone who is doing it and not just complaining.
I know Miz would spend hours everyday promoting himself. He did all kinds of exhibitions at conventions that had nothing to do with pool. For example like a plumbing convention etc. I used to have some of his advertising and it was strong and he could close the deal with one phone call. He got upwards of $3000. a day. Success is not an accident.
Interestingly enough some years back I was putting on an exhibition with Steve Cook it was a two day deal. Now Steve Cook was not a name anyone outside the pool world would have ever heard of. I called local papers and all the local TV channels not really expecting anything. Low and behold they all showed up. One TV station had a weather man who was a pool player and he did a live spot from the pool room.
I have the feeling many of these Pro players do not both with Taxes, Social Security Payments, and when their years of playing is over. Their retirement will be ZIP with nothing coming to them from the Social Security Administration.
They should keep very good books and since that after everything will probably owe nothing in taxes anyway, their car allowance and mileage alone can wipe it out, they then just pay their own self employment taxes towards SS and medicare. They think they are being cleaver and scatting the system but they are the real suckers in the end.
Yes the challenge of champions Buddy and Mike, still is a bit of a black eye on pool.
I see a lot of posts about gambling being the issue. Most pro or top level players I see don't play on their own money. A few months ago I was playing in a tourney and a top level player asked me what it cost to get in the tourney.
This was well into it. Not being able to manage money, which goes along with winning large chunks at a time, then not putting any back.
Also even though everyone seems to be dancing around it here. But drugs and alcohol are a huge problem, especially pills.
This was well into it. Not being able to manage money, which goes along with winning large chunks at a time, then not putting any back.
Also even though everyone seems to be dancing around it here. But drugs and alcohol are a huge problem, especially pills.
Wow! That statement needs to stand alone, not be buried in the middle of a post. Pool will thrive whether or not there are people making a living playing the game or not. It is a recreational activity. As long as there are pool tables in bars, people are going to play pool.
The results of the US Open, or the next WPBA tournament will have absolutely zero impact on whether I go out and play pool next Tuesday night or not. I will do it because it is what I want to do.
Amateur and recreational players really don't need professional players. Professional players, however, really do need the amateur and recreational players if there is any hope for them to make a living playing pool.
Steve
Pool is not an occupation. It can be used to supplement or deplete your primary income (if you have one) - but pool is not an occupation. No matter how good you are, you need to have a back-up plan. In this day and age, education is vital in succeeding in the world - and even if you want to play pool (for big money) you need to know how to manage your money and your career.
Scuffling won't cut it.
The people that believe that scuffling from here to there will eventually lead them to a pot of gold - they are only fooling themselves.
A long time ago, I had somebody tell me that I had to chart my life out by establishing goals. It was cool to have some goals that were geared towards pool. I was able to achieve some of them, some them I didn't. However I had goals established outside the realm of of my pool life. These goals included education, career, family, etc. These "non-pool" goals were the fuel used to power my pool goals.
You also have to look at things realistically. It's cool to show up and play the pros, but your chance of winning anything of significance is very low percentage. I've seen guys win big events, or cash in big events and still end up in the red. That should tell you something - and your priorities should be based upon those realities.
It comes down to priorities. Learning how prioritize your life and your goals is essential to being successful no matter what you want to do. You won't always impress everybody - but I never really cared about that. My career as a "pro" probably didn't amount to shitt (even in my eyes), but I was able to channel my energy and passion for the game into other areas of my life. I had to learn to shut my mouth and listen to others, establish and foster good relationships, get an education, prioritize, and then work my asss off. That means getting up every day (before 2PM) and having someplace to be where you are expected to be responsible, dependable, and accountable.
In less than 10 years (1983-1993) I went from starving while living in the back seat of my Honda Accord - to purchasing and paying off a 5 bedroom home and acquiring two local pool rooms. In my spare time I earned degrees in business and psychology, and I worked in law enforcement. I continued to play at a high level, but my main gig - the gig that put food on the table and money in the bank was not dependent upon how I was pocketing balls that week.
Unless you play on the same level of Johnny Archer, Shane Van Boening, Thorsten Hohmann, Darren Appleton, Mika, etc... you might want to establish something that will take care of you once the balls start appearing fuzzy. There are some great players that I knew 25 years ago - they were rolling in the dough back then, but today they don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. That's a bad place to be when you're 25, and an even worse place to be when you're 60.
For those that think that teaching or writing books is enough to sustain you - ROTFLMAO - for the month of May, I sold 2 books, and made a whopping $20. I think altogether, I might have made $100 teaching on the side. These days, I make more money training athletes in other sports than I ever have in pool, and that is where I concentrate 90% of my energy these days. You go with the flow.
Scuffling won't cut it.
The people that believe that scuffling from here to there will eventually lead them to a pot of gold - they are only fooling themselves.
A long time ago, I had somebody tell me that I had to chart my life out by establishing goals. It was cool to have some goals that were geared towards pool. I was able to achieve some of them, some them I didn't. However I had goals established outside the realm of of my pool life. These goals included education, career, family, etc. These "non-pool" goals were the fuel used to power my pool goals.
You also have to look at things realistically. It's cool to show up and play the pros, but your chance of winning anything of significance is very low percentage. I've seen guys win big events, or cash in big events and still end up in the red. That should tell you something - and your priorities should be based upon those realities.
It comes down to priorities. Learning how prioritize your life and your goals is essential to being successful no matter what you want to do. You won't always impress everybody - but I never really cared about that. My career as a "pro" probably didn't amount to shitt (even in my eyes), but I was able to channel my energy and passion for the game into other areas of my life. I had to learn to shut my mouth and listen to others, establish and foster good relationships, get an education, prioritize, and then work my asss off. That means getting up every day (before 2PM) and having someplace to be where you are expected to be responsible, dependable, and accountable.
In less than 10 years (1983-1993) I went from starving while living in the back seat of my Honda Accord - to purchasing and paying off a 5 bedroom home and acquiring two local pool rooms. In my spare time I earned degrees in business and psychology, and I worked in law enforcement. I continued to play at a high level, but my main gig - the gig that put food on the table and money in the bank was not dependent upon how I was pocketing balls that week.
Unless you play on the same level of Johnny Archer, Shane Van Boening, Thorsten Hohmann, Darren Appleton, Mika, etc... you might want to establish something that will take care of you once the balls start appearing fuzzy. There are some great players that I knew 25 years ago - they were rolling in the dough back then, but today they don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. That's a bad place to be when you're 25, and an even worse place to be when you're 60.
For those that think that teaching or writing books is enough to sustain you - ROTFLMAO - for the month of May, I sold 2 books, and made a whopping $20. I think altogether, I might have made $100 teaching on the side. These days, I make more money training athletes in other sports than I ever have in pool, and that is where I concentrate 90% of my energy these days. You go with the flow.
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We have had them. Remember the Camel Pro Tour.
We (the pool community) didn't treat them very well.
They are gone.
Steve
yup that was poorly handled, i heard the details and found out the why's, who's and whats's. I'm sworn to never tell. I should even mention I know, but its been a very long time. Shame.
I like one pocket so I'll pick Scott Frost as my example. Let say Scott started in New Orleans or Houston area offering one pocket lessons for say $50/hr maybe $75/hr. spent a couple of days in each area. Then moved to San Antonio, then Austin, then Dallas/Ft Worth, then OKC/Tulsa. On to Wichita, KC, St. Louis, and Chicago. Probable a lot of places I left out in between.
This is a different type of road trip. One in which he doesn't have to get in a bunch of bad games giving tons of weigh. Scott probably knows most of the owners in these areas. I'm sure he could call in advance and set it up, maybe even a sign up in advance. He could promote his CD a long the way. I would be down for 3 or 4 hours of private lessons from Scott.
He would not make a big score but I'm sure he could make a decent amount in a 2 or 3 month time frame. Say he could book 6 hours a day at $75/hour that's $450/day. Less a $50/night motel 6 room. Then he has gas and food. Try to get some food comped from the pool room. There will be some incidental expenses. But, maybe he can sell a couple of CDs at each location for say $25 to $30 a piece.
This same senario could be used for Gabe or Cliff or many others. This is the grind and I don't think these Pro Pool Players are wired that way. I think these guys are really pro gamblers. And, I think pro gamblers make their money convincing others to put money in the middle for them. Its the hustle.
Steven
This is a different type of road trip. One in which he doesn't have to get in a bunch of bad games giving tons of weigh. Scott probably knows most of the owners in these areas. I'm sure he could call in advance and set it up, maybe even a sign up in advance. He could promote his CD a long the way. I would be down for 3 or 4 hours of private lessons from Scott.
He would not make a big score but I'm sure he could make a decent amount in a 2 or 3 month time frame. Say he could book 6 hours a day at $75/hour that's $450/day. Less a $50/night motel 6 room. Then he has gas and food. Try to get some food comped from the pool room. There will be some incidental expenses. But, maybe he can sell a couple of CDs at each location for say $25 to $30 a piece.
This same senario could be used for Gabe or Cliff or many others. This is the grind and I don't think these Pro Pool Players are wired that way. I think these guys are really pro gamblers. And, I think pro gamblers make their money convincing others to put money in the middle for them. Its the hustle.
Steven
I know lots of pro's and will not put their personal biz in the streets. There is a handful of players making $$$, its a tough grind and what they have to sacrifice to get it is everything. They have no life but in airplanes flying all over the world, not having a family or leaving them often, and lots of hotel rooms. There is some sponership $$$ in Asia that is for the most part unknown of here in America. American players getting paid by Asian sponsors(not huge $$ but decent). The players who make the sacrifices are money makers and not broke. But the sacrifice to $$$ ratio is not very good. Its a labour of love or all they can do or a combination thus a bitter sweet life. They dont have to set the alarm clock and punch a time clock-sweet, but having no life but pool-can be bitter. A few are happy.
Ok now the broke ones, the Gamblers. I'm not talking about SVB playing sets for $10K-$20K, thats ok. They get put in the box, sometimes bet some of their own. They really dont get hurt betting on pool. WTF am I taking about? Poker and Casino's most pool players are gamblers by nature, and over the past 27 years I have lived in vegas spent a year in Reno(if I add up all the time spent there), went to the card room next door to the pool room and seen $$ I lost playing $50-$100 sets blown on Pia-Gow in 30 seconds go right into Chinese Mikes pocket. I have heard one guy we all know and most like say "I cant help it i'm a gambling junkie" he will grind on the pool table for 12 hours and blow that plus what ever he has in his pocket in 30 minutes. Last year Alex Pag. Told me in the PI all the top players are playing poker. He said "Even Dennis", in a surprised tone of voice.
The only difference between a champion pool player and tiger woods at a craps table is THE COLOR OF THEIR CHIPS, its the same game for everyone. pool players use red and green $5,$25 chips; Tiger uses $5000,$25000 chips or chocolates and cranberry's. I think the big chips vary in color from joint to joint. I watched my friend win $5,000,000 in 45 minutes one night about 5 years ago. Thats when it hit me same game different chip color-nothing else. With the $5 mil in the trunk we went to the Duece(Crazy Horse 2) and had hotdogs and hambugers delivered to the VIP room in the back, ate and went home. Did the same thing 5-6 nights a week, it never stops. And most pool players try and get pumped up in casino's. Then when they get busted come looking for a lock at the nearest room. Thats why pool action in Vegas when there isnt a event in town is the worst ever. Everyone is looking for a lock, the joints get all the $$$. I seen it for years. There is a fine line between broke and pumped up, and how you live isnt much different. People misunderstand $$$. Dip knows what i'm talking about.
Another reason players are broke is the $$$ is weak(tournment pay-outs, endorsement deals for low level guys is nothing) unless your among the 10-15 best players from Europe or America there just isnt much $$$ avaliable to you, The Asians I dont know enough about to talk about. What I do know I cant talk about(and isnt relevant). If your #30 or #100 best player in America the payouts are so low and travel $$ is so high it just dont add up. Its a waste of time, so you spend all your time to be #30 and not making $$ from something else and pool dont cut it, your broke. Then go to the casino or poker and your a bust out. A few pool players went to poker and are doing good, Josh Ariea and Tang Hoa are both good poker players that came from pool. They aint gambling when they play poker-when they were comming up they had to gamble but they both turned the corner and are doing ok. I know more about Tang, he does ok playing poker. Good guy. Sorry if I misspelled Josh's last name. There are other poker players that have done this as well I just cant remember their names. One guy lives in Vegas was a real solid pool player
My story I was out of the scene then making my $$$ in life because when i was 100% pool for years at a time 2 times. I was making $$$ from pool for about 2 1/2 years in my life at 2 different times and I averaged $1200/mo profit, both times. In two different cities. That was the best I could do, and not enough for any kind of life, i had no girl, friends except at the pool room, I was 100% pool 24/7. I was so deep into pool I saw a pic of the President on a Newspaper I picked up in a stop one time, other than reading the sports line I didnt read, there was no internet then-I saw the picture of President Bush (the first one) and thought to myself "He looks familiar who is he?" . I shit when I read his name below the picture. I didnt know ehat the President looked like? but I knew the line on all the pool players in the area(Sacramento) and the sports i knew what was going on. I realized then this wasnt working I had to do something else, if I played better I would have made more $$. The better you play the more you make. I tried again 4 years later and for 20 months it was pool 24/7 and still the same average of $1200/month. Nowadays I have no clue what I could do, and I dont want to live like that again. I have a more balanced life.
Pool just is to small for there to be any real $$ in it. A stream with a 1000 viewers is 20 people per state, thats bad. The worst TV shows get 1,000,000 viewers. A thousand times more people. Actually if you think of how small pool is the top guys are making big $$$ relitative to the audience size. Take the #4 golfer and divide how many people watch him by his annual income and I bet that number is lower than it is for the pool players.
>>>>>>>>>>>I bet per viewer pool players are in the top paid athletes<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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great postPool is not an occupation. It can be used to supplement or deplete your primary income (if you have one) - but pool is not an occupation. No matter how good you are, you need to have a back-up plan. In this day and age, education is vital in succeeding in the world - and even if you want to play pool (for big money) you need to know how to manage your money and your career.
Scuffling won't cut it.
The people that believe that scuffling from here to there will eventually lead them to a pot of gold - they are only fooling themselves.
A long time ago, I had somebody tell me that I had to chart my life out by establishing goals. It was cool to have some goals that were geared towards pool. I was able to achieve some of them, some them I didn't. However I had goals established outside the realm of of my pool life. These goals included education, career, family, etc. These "non-pool" goals were the fuel used to power my pool goals.
You also have to look at things realistically. It's cool to show up and play the pros, but your chance of winning anything of significance is very low percentage. I've seen guys win big events, or cash in big events and still end up in the red. That should tell you something - and your priorities should be based upon those realities.
It comes down to priorities. Learning how prioritize your life and your goals is essential to being successful no matter what you want to do. You won't always impress everybody - but I never really cared about that. My career as a "pro" probably didn't amount to shitt (even in my eyes), but I was able to channel my energy and passion for the game into other areas of my life. I had to learn to shut my mouth and listen to others, establish and foster good relationships, get an education, prioritize, and then work my asss off. That means getting up every day (before 2PM) and having someplace to be where you are expected to be responsible, dependable, and accountable.
In less than 10 years (1983-1993) I went from starving while living in the back seat of my Honda Accord - to purchasing and paying off a 5 bedroom home and acquiring two local pool rooms. In my spare time I earned degrees in business and psychology, and I worked in law enforcement. I continued to play at a high level, but my main gig - the gig that put food on the table and money in the bank was not dependent upon how I was pocketing balls that week.
Unless you play on the same level of Johnny Archer, Shane Van Boening, Thorsten Hohmann, Darren Appleton, Mika, etc... you might want to establish something that will take care of you once the balls start appearing fuzzy. There are some great players that I knew 25 years ago - they were rolling in the dough back then, but today they don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. That's a bad place to be when you're 25, and an even worse place to be when you're 60.
For those that think that teaching or writing books is enough to sustain you - ROTFLMAO - for the month of May, I sold 2 books, and made a whopping $20. I think altogether, I might have made $100 teaching on the side. These days, I make more money training athletes in other sports than I ever have in pool, and that is where I concentrate 90% of my energy these days. You go with the flow.
I don't know what the case for most broke pros is but I've known a couple of players who were top pros at one time and they blew through their money without any thought of the future at all. They'd win a big event or make a big score gambling and then immediately spend it on some ridiculous luxury.
Some pros are clearly different though, I don't see someone like say SVB doing anything so stupid, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders.
Some pros are clearly different though, I don't see someone like say SVB doing anything so stupid, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders.
It is only not pool players. Many professional athletes, musicians, actors and etc are in the same situation. Easy come and faster go. They don't have any respect for money and think they have Pandora's Box. They never think that the end will come or their career will end. They get caught up in the moment, fame and before they know it their bankroll and "friends" are gone.
The same is applies to those that win the lotto. Too many end up worse than they were before they won.
The same is applies to those that win the lotto. Too many end up worse than they were before they won.