Sounds more like a bad date to me
. But that is a long way to go to play for 45 minutes...Very NITalicious, man!Dave
When is it ok to "quit winner"?
- Thread starter fast&loose designs
- Start date
Sounds more like a bad date to me
. But that is a long way to go to play for 45 minutes...Very NITalicious, man!Dave
Unless the two players agree on a quitting time. Tell him to stay local where everyone know's him.
He ever goes any where that no one don't know him and he pulls that (quitting winner) he may not like the out come and is subject to arrive back home in a bag.............
keyword: NEGOTIATE a quitting time.
He ever goes any where that no one don't know him and he pulls that (quitting winner) he may not like the out come and is subject to arrive back home in a bag.............
keyword: NEGOTIATE a quitting time.
Last edited:
Spoken by a true money player. Well stated (except for the pussy comment).
I kinda hate to say it.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
This is really not complicated.
You and I play $20/game.
You win two games and then you remember that you have to go to work.
You quit.
You are a nit.
You and I play $20/game.
We go back and forth for several hours.
You say, "I must leave in an hour."
I say, "Okay."
This is perfectly acceptable.
You and I play $20/game.
You win 3 games.
You say, "I must leave in an hour."
I say, "Let's play a race to 3 for $60."
You say, "No. Let's just play $20/game."
This is perfectly acceptable.
You and I play $50/set.
You win 3 sets and I say, "That's it. I'm done."
This is perfectly acceptable.
You and I play $50/set.
You win 3 sets.
I ask for a spot.
You oblige.
You lose 2 sets and say, "Let's play even again."
I say, "No."
You quit.
This is perfectly acceptable. You are winner playing even, I am winner with the spot.
You and I play for $5.
You win.
I say, "Double the bet."
You say, "Okay."
You win again.
I say, "Play for $20."
You say, "No."
I quit.
This is perfectly acceptable.
Do you notice how the loser quits each time? When you start playing, you should assume that you will keep playing forever or until one of you is broke. If you cannot play forever, then give sufficient notice, as in, "I have to leave in 3 hours."
This doesn't mean you have to let the guy get even to get quit. It means you have to keep beating him until he's had enough. I suppose this is the difference in mentality between winners and pussies. When the bet changes, the game starts over. When the spot changes, the game starts over. But you gotta keep playing the same way until the loser quits.
I've quit winner before. Usually, it is because better action just walked in the room. I always forfeit out the last set. I'm buying my way out of the game.
In the end, you probably shouldn't gamble if you're going to be a nit.
Funny, when I first read Drew's analysis, I had some real problems with it, but it makes more sense the more you read it. Still don't agree there should be an expectation to "play forever", but certainly should play for some reasonable amount of time. As said many times here, best to determine the length of the contest up front.
To the OP: Is your friend a nit? Yes, I think he is, but I've never played my friends for any real money. Not worth losing a friendship over a few bucks. Hope the guy at least picked up the check for the table and beer.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
This is really not complicated.
You and I play $20/game.
You win two games and then you remember that you have to go to work.
You quit.
You are a nit.
You and I play $20/game.
We go back and forth for several hours.
You say, "I must leave in an hour."
I say, "Okay."
This is perfectly acceptable.
You and I play $20/game.
You win 3 games.
You say, "I must leave in an hour."
I say, "Let's play a race to 3 for $60."
You say, "No. Let's just play $20/game."
This is perfectly acceptable.
You and I play $50/set.
You win 3 sets and I say, "That's it. I'm done."
This is perfectly acceptable.
You and I play $50/set.
You win 3 sets.
I ask for a spot.
You oblige.
You lose 2 sets and say, "Let's play even again."
I say, "No."
You quit.
This is perfectly acceptable. You are winner playing even, I am winner with the spot.
You and I play for $5.
You win.
I say, "Double the bet."
You say, "Okay."
You win again.
I say, "Play for $20."
You say, "No."
I quit.
This is perfectly acceptable.
Do you notice how the loser quits each time? When you start playing, you should assume that you will keep playing forever or until one of you is broke. If you cannot play forever, then give sufficient notice, as in, "I have to leave in 3 hours."
This doesn't mean you have to let the guy get even to get quit. It means you have to keep beating him until he's had enough. I suppose this is the difference in mentality between winners and pussies. When the bet changes, the game starts over. When the spot changes, the game starts over. But you gotta keep playing the same way until the loser quits.
I've quit winner before. Usually, it is because better action just walked in the room. I always forfeit out the last set. I'm buying my way out of the game.
In the end, you probably shouldn't gamble if you're going to be a nit.
Funny, when I first read Drew's analysis, I had some real problems with it, but it makes more sense the more you read it. Still don't agree there should be an expectation to "play forever", but certainly should play for some reasonable amount of time. As said many times here, best to determine the length of the contest up front.
To the OP: Is your friend a nit? Yes, I think he is, but I've never played my friends for any real money. Not worth losing a friendship over a few bucks. Hope the guy at least picked up the check for the table and beer.......
Last edited:
Here is my story from last month. I walk into the hall I play at for a coffee and some BS. I have no intention to play. Some clown starts bugging me to match up. I tell him that I have to pick up my daughter in a couple of hours and can't. He murmurs to his friend I told you he has no heart and won't play anything but a sure thing for small dollars.
My blood pressure goes from zero to 300 in 0.2 seconds. OK jerk off. I have time for one set...what do you want to do? He wants to play for X I say 2X. OK he replies and I walk to the car for my cue. I return with my stick and the clown starts trying to negotiate a spot! "Well you didn't think I would play you even did you". Normally at this point I would drive a hard bargain but I'm mad and I just give him what he wants to make a point. His game. Race to 9 and I win the flip. Run 4 Pack. Break dry. Safety battle. 2 More for me. Stub my dick on a easy 7. He scratches on break.....before you know it I tear him a new on 9-1.
I break down my cue and put my hand out for a shake...."What you quit me after one set"? "It went so quick you should play me another set". I explain that I said one set and he goes off. Complaining to anyone who will listen that I'm some sort of lock artist nit. Blood pressure back up to 300 and I give him his spot and I text a friend to pick up my daughter.
40 min later 9-3 for me and he's foaming at the mouth. Throwing his cue and screaming that I sharked him. Now guess what he's short and can't pay me the second barrel.
The point of the story is that Losers Lose. It's what they do. You can play as little or as long as you like (unless of coarse you have locked down or agreed to a time or number of sets). Some guys always think it's their birth rite to win back what they lose. The only obligation I have is to pay what I lose.
Nick
My blood pressure goes from zero to 300 in 0.2 seconds. OK jerk off. I have time for one set...what do you want to do? He wants to play for X I say 2X. OK he replies and I walk to the car for my cue. I return with my stick and the clown starts trying to negotiate a spot! "Well you didn't think I would play you even did you". Normally at this point I would drive a hard bargain but I'm mad and I just give him what he wants to make a point. His game. Race to 9 and I win the flip. Run 4 Pack. Break dry. Safety battle. 2 More for me. Stub my dick on a easy 7. He scratches on break.....before you know it I tear him a new on 9-1.
I break down my cue and put my hand out for a shake...."What you quit me after one set"? "It went so quick you should play me another set". I explain that I said one set and he goes off. Complaining to anyone who will listen that I'm some sort of lock artist nit. Blood pressure back up to 300 and I give him his spot and I text a friend to pick up my daughter.
40 min later 9-3 for me and he's foaming at the mouth. Throwing his cue and screaming that I sharked him. Now guess what he's short and can't pay me the second barrel.
The point of the story is that Losers Lose. It's what they do. You can play as little or as long as you like (unless of coarse you have locked down or agreed to a time or number of sets). Some guys always think it's their birth rite to win back what they lose. The only obligation I have is to pay what I lose.
Nick
the only thing i'd like to add about quitting winner is this. i don't play for a lot, 20-50 is about the most i'll gamble with. so if i agree to play and there is no stipulation about time or number of sets i am usually good to play for a while. however, if in that first set you turn out to be the largest type a*shole i have ever met and i win - we're done. i am quitting winner and i don't care. i will not play for fun with people that act like morons and i am definately not going to gamble with someone who shows his ass. especially becasue i don't bet much.
That's a good point that I forgot about: mostly because this situation never happens to me. I have a lot of patience, especially when I'm getting paid. Usually, you'll get kicked out of the room before bothering me. But I can see how excessive jackassery can cause you to quit winner.
The person winning can quit whenever they feel like it. They aren't obligated to give you a chance at anything. It seems to me that it's only the people that lost money that cry over something like this. Look, if you want to prevent this from happening then *YOU* need to make mention of how long you are wanting to play. Like "Hey, wanna shoot 3 or 4 sets?" After that, regardless of the outcome, both parties are free to walk away. But again, it seems like it's only the people that lose that bring this one up.
MULLY
MULLY
I am not very comfortable with "playing forever" concept. My point is, everything should be reasonable. When I was young, I could, and did play 12+ hour sessions. But, there used to be guys who were playing on coke, or some other shit they put up their nose, etc., and they could stay focused without sleep for 24 + hours. Does the rule about "playing forever" direct me to play them for 36 hours straight on nothing but stamina if they so wish?! Hell NO! At some point I will start missing hangers due to being dead tired. How does that show who plays better? What matters is that you give him a chance to win his money back, not give him a chance to beat you when you are tired. He wants to continue playing, that is fine. I will go home and get a nice 8 hour sleep, eat breakfast, and then come back to kick his ass again. He can stay in the pool hall and wait for me, or, he could be smart and get some rest.
References to movies like "Hustler" are nice, but people miss the lesson. The gambling lesson was that Eddy should have quit when he was $17K ahead, and then come back the next day. Do not tell me he would not get a game the next day... When you are gambling, -- it is not sport (or should not be sport). You are there to make money. Treat it like a job. If you want sport, rep., recognition, and trophies, -- go play in a tournament. How do you know you are winner? If you have more $ in your pocket when you leave the pool hall you are a winner (unless you are being set up :grin-square: )
But, you got to be reasonable. I know a guy who only plays while he is winning. As soon as he looses a game, he quits. I think he is an asshole.
References to movies like "Hustler" are nice, but people miss the lesson. The gambling lesson was that Eddy should have quit when he was $17K ahead, and then come back the next day. Do not tell me he would not get a game the next day... When you are gambling, -- it is not sport (or should not be sport). You are there to make money. Treat it like a job. If you want sport, rep., recognition, and trophies, -- go play in a tournament. How do you know you are winner? If you have more $ in your pocket when you leave the pool hall you are a winner (unless you are being set up :grin-square: )
But, you got to be reasonable. I know a guy who only plays while he is winning. As soon as he looses a game, he quits. I think he is an asshole.
That's a good point. It isn't very likely that the person who won the first two sets and ran would complain about himself winning the first two sets and running.
A great percentage of us have been on both sides. Establish your set and money amount, compete the set, establish the next set and complete that one. If I win a couple of sets of somone and decide to go after a greater challenge or walk away, I agree with an earlier statemnt that we both started at the same time. I also have had a couple of people want to raise the stakes after I have beaten them a couple of sets. I simple say, no problem, pay the equivelent amount for the prior games or sets. Anytime money is involved, stories are going to be created. I think your friend just wants to keep the edge over you. Return the favor, beat him and walk and see how he reacts. Lessons can go both ways without saying a word. I still think laying the ground work ahead avoids hurt feelings.
Ok...then I will publicly say it. When you gamble with me, we will play indefinitely or until the loser quits or the quitter must give sufficient notice before quitting. Sound good?
Oh and btw: if you never lose, then you are either god, or a lock artist. Quitting winner only pertains to gambling. If you are just stealing, then your character speaks for itself. You wouldn't ever get the chance to quit winner, because I would never play you.
BKB said:
Please take a moment to digest what it means to "play forever." Either the loser refuses to quit and keeps losing money, or there is no loser because the games/sets go back and forth.
If the loser just refuses to quit: Why not ask him to double the bet and keep beating his head in? Obviously, he does not care how much he loses and you can keep on taking the money (you are gambling for the money, aren't you?) Even better, offer him an ahead set for what he owes...negotiate it as the last set and double your winnings.
If the games/sets keep going back and forth: Then you are more than welcome to quit at even. You are more than welcome to put a time limit on things. Or you can play better and force a loser.
There's no two ways about this.
Win 2 sets and quit = No heart whatsoever
Unrelated: I do not believe the message of The Hustler is that Eddie should have quit winner. I thought the message was very clear. Hubris destroys him. Discipline makes him a champion. What happened in the end of that movie? Does Eddie quit winner or does Fats admit defeat?
"The pool game is over when Fats says it's over."
Last edited:
Last edited:
If that's how you want to look at it. I got wrangled into a match one time, playing 10 dollar sets. I was up 180 bucks when I finally called it quits. The reason I called it quits? Because he had no chance whatsoever to beat me. That isn't ego talking either. He was just a guy that shot pool every once in a while against his friends. He wouldn't have been able to beat a B class player. I told him before we started that we shouldn't bet but he wouldn't play without putting money on it. After every set I told him to just drop the bet, he wouldn't have any of that though. I finally go so frustrated that I actually went to other people in the room and told them to go over and tell him to drop the bet. I took the 180 and paid both of our table times and all drinks. Haven't seen him since.
MULLY
I don't recall EVER saying that I never lose. I've lost plenty, but I don't cry about it when I do. It's part of the game. It's called "gambling" for a reason. That means that there is a risk that you are going to lose your money. Do I think it's shitty for someone to just up and quit without warning? Sure, it's pretty uncool, but he is under no obligation to let me try and win my money back. Either way, there has never been a time that I've gotten into a money match where I haven't said straight up "If I lose (this amount) I'm done." That usually sends a message to the other person to set their parameters. Either that or if I'm under time constraints I'll tell them "Look, I only have 2 hours then I gotta go."
Again, more reasons why at this point of my life I refuse to gamble anymore. Nothing good ever comes out of it.
MULLY
Agreed- the responsibility for stating intended play duration rest equally on both player's shoulders.
Then why aren't you suggesting that this perp should have said, "If I win the first two sets, I'm done."
There probably never would have been any sets if he had.
There's an unstated assumption that you will be given at least a half decent run for your money when you're playing with a friend or even just someone who is a regular acquaintance where you play.
It isn't the same thing as someone who just showed up and asks to play for money.
How does that have any relation at all to the situation the OP described? If anything, it's the opposite.
Same reason you aren't suggesting the other guy should have said, "I expect to play for __hours".
Failure by design.