Using draw causes more misses?

Tennesseejoe said:
MitchAlsup said:
A lot of the lower capability players think they must use excessive CB velocity in order to get a lot of backspin. What they lack is the dexterity in their wrist to snap forward through impact so that the cue-stick is moving rather slowly at impact, while accelerating rapidly. The separation between cue-stick velocity at impact and cue-stick acceleration at impact is what allows big draw with soft speeds.
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Dr. Dave---A what is your take on this???
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Some people can use wrist action effectively to get more cue speed into the ball with less apparent effort. However, it is cue speed at impact, and not acceleration, that really matters; although, acceleration the whole time before impact is what creates the speed. For more info (including a video) on these topics, see:

Regards,
Dave
 
To pick a nit.

Bob Jewett said:
A few points....

If you are going to move the cue ball a few diamonds with draw or follow, you usually have to hit the cue ball a lot harder for the draw shot. That's because it will lose draw on the way to the object ball but it doesn't lose follow. Harder usually means with less accuracy.

A small amount of draw will be transferred to the object ball. That's usually negligible. An object ball with full rolling follow will usually go into the pocket easier than a sliding object ball, but draw is a bad way to get object ball follow for this purpose -- it's better to hit the ball softly.

Draw can multiply the effective side spin on the cue ball and if the spin is unintended it might be more of a problem than with a follow shot that is hit slightly off center.

Old cloth is hard to draw on and the pockets are usually less forgiving.

Old cue balls are easier to draw as they are worn down and smaller than the object balls.
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I'm not one to argue with the Master. He communicates with such simplicity, clarity and conciseness it is hard to add anything to what he writes but I have to imagine that the older cue ball is easier to draw because they are worn down and are smaller but more importantly, weighs less than the object balls. I will take my tongue-lashing at a later date.
 
JoeyA said:
I'm not one to argue with the Master. He communicates with such simplicity, clarity and conciseness it is hard to add anything to what he writes but I have to imagine that the older cue ball is easier to draw because they are worn down and are smaller but more importantly, weighs less than the object balls. I will take my tongue-lashing at a later date.
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No aggravation from pt on that one.
In the 60's the cue-ball color code actually meant something.

BLUE DOTS were favored by straight pool players..they were heavier

RED DOTS were favored by 9-ball players....about same weight as OB

GREEN DOTS were also known as MACON FAST DRAWS.....
..they were the same size as the object balls but substantially lighter....
..you could hit dead center and draw the length of the table
 
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JoeyA said:
Bob Jewett said:
... Old cue balls are easier to draw as they are worn down and smaller than the object balls
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I'm not one to argue with the Master. He communicates with such simplicity, clarity and conciseness it is hard to add anything to what he writes but I have to imagine that the older cue ball is easier to draw because they are worn down and are smaller but more importantly, weighs less than the object balls. I will take my tongue-lashing at a later date.
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If people are interested in ball-weight-difference effects, see the following video Bob and I filmed together:

Enjoy,
Dave
 
A lot of people call outside english "helping english", because it will throw the cueball. Instead of the object ball hitting the rail first and staying up in the pocket. The harder you hit the cueball, the less throw you will get.

With that in mind, a very good player taught me that using follow will throw the ball but draw will not. I was missing a lot of draw shots down the rail that were hitting the long rail first and he told me when he aims a draw (cut) shot, he aims to slightly overcut the ball into the point but when he using follow, he aims to slightly undercut the ball into the other point. This was fantastic advice I had never heard before and helped me a lot.
 
cleary said:
A lot of people call outside english "helping english", because it will throw the cueball. Instead of the object ball hitting the rail first and staying up in the pocket. The harder you hit the cueball, the less throw you will get.

With that in mind, a very good player taught me that using follow will throw the ball but draw will not. I was missing a lot of draw shots down the rail that were hitting the long rail first and he told me when he aims a draw (cut) shot, he aims to slightly overcut the ball into the point but when he using follow, he aims to slightly undercut the ball into the other point. This was fantastic advice I had never heard before and helped me a lot.
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When "he" shoots both the draw cut shot and the follow cut shot, is he using outside English or inside English in addition to draw and follow? (or no outside or inside at all?)

Thanks,
Joey
 
JoeyA said:
When "he" shoots both the draw cut shot and the follow cut shot, is he using outside English or inside English in addition to draw and follow? (or no outside or inside at all?)

Thanks,
Joey
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No outside or inside at all. Just straight follow or draw. He said its very rare he shoots a cutshot with centerball. Always something on it.
 
It makes a great difference on where the cue tip hits the cueball.
On short CB to OB draws it is not very noticable.

On long CB to OB draw shots the cueball must be hit VERY close to it's
centerline. Slightly off center hits will turn draw shots into sidespin.

The amount of sidespin can be great on long draws. Not only does the
CB hit the OB off it's aim point, it also throws the object ball off line.

Unless your stroke is near perfect, you may be hitting the CB off it's
centerline and it would be magnified when it's hit hard.

If the pockets are tight, perfectly aimed shots may rattle in the pocket.

http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/pool-dogma

Go to the above website and read question #5
There is also a video link to Dr. Daves site on sidespin.
 
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