first video for comment

wigglybridge

wigglybridge

14.1 straight pool!
Silver Member
Hey all, i finally did a short video last night, and would love any comments and constructive criticism. kind of daunting to post it here amongst these 80-somethings...

http://vimeo.com/25170988

sorry about the camera angle, i know higher would've been better, but i had only my iPhone and 6" GorillaCam bendy-tripod on the beverage shelf.

even though this was only my 2nd short session with a radically different cue, i think it's pretty fair representation of the way i normally play: some pretty good shots, sometimes even smart shots, interspersed with total loss of the cueball and scrambling to regain control of the table.

i can see some of the things i did wrong, but a fresh perspective would be great!
 
Your Video

Beautiful table that you were playing on & it was a ball return on top of it. The balls were really opening nicely. I see a Centennial table in the back ground. If only we had a room like that in the DFW area. I'm jealous.
I will say, that you are a good shot maker. Your position play needs work.
One thing that stands out, at 5:00 you took a shot on the 6 ball in the lower left corner and pushed the 10 ball way out of the way. That 10 ball was a great break ball. Maybe it was in the rack area, I would of worked around to play the 6 and lightly bumped the 10 if it was. You had a straight in shot on the 8 ball in the top left corner instead of the 6 ball. Then you would of had either one of those two balls that were up near the 8 ball as a key ball to get on the 10 ball. I hope that I have made myself clear, my writing is not the best.
Anyways, Thanks so much for posting. Enjoyed watching.
 
thanks for the comment!

that 10-ball was Definitely my break plan, and it wasn't in the rack, as you guessed; you can see how pissed i was to run into it. but believe it or not, i couldn't really see that 8 ball cleanly; i had less than 1/2 the pocket, if that. so i thought i could cut the 6 in and Just miss the 10; turned out i was waaaay off, and still not sure whether i just didn't cut it right or it never had a chance to clear the break ball. i think things were already out of control by then, though, and my strategic error happened earlier; i need to watch again.

MUCH LATER: just looked at it again. i think you're right, 14-1Straightman: even though i could only see part of the pocket on that ball up table, i could Also only see part of the pocket on the ball i shot close to my break ball, given that i had to hit it Perfectly to avoid hitting my bb. so i chose wrong there.

i should have mentioned in the comment that this is at Ivory Billiards in Holyoke, MA. and yes, they are beautiful tables, and Very well maintained. they have several Centennials and Gold Crown II's, about 8 9-footers in all.

many thanks for the comments! i don't feel like "a good shot maker", especially compared to some of the other videos here, and it's an honor to get some feedback from better players.
 
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1/2 of a Pocket

Yes, the 8-ball was the correct shot and it is 100% OK to shoot at a pocket when you only have 1/2 of it. That is what makes 14.1 players stand out from the rest. They know how to work the pockets & the rails in order to make a shot and to achieve that correct position. That is another reason why playing on tables that are altered (pockets shimmed) is no good. I have made balls with only 1/3 of a pocket available by aiming for the inside of a rail. It all can be done to get that right shot.
Good Luck & keep posting.
 
My 2 cents...

Bob, I agree that the 10 was the preferred break ball that rack, but even though you moved it, it wasn't the end of the world. At 5:30, you decide to eliminate the 3 balls in the center of the table. I'm not sure that was the right move at that point. FWIW, what I would have done was shot the solid ball (2?) straight in the side and then got rid of the 10 - bringing the cue ball back out to the middle of the table. From there, with all my work right there in the center of the table, I would have looked to get a side pocket break from either the 8 or the 13(?). Not saying that was the right thing to do, either, just offering a different way it could have been played.

I remember commenting in another thread that it didn't sound like pocketing was your problem, and from what I saw in the video it's certainly not. I don't think your position play was that bad, either. You got position on the balls you wanted to shoot. What I think you need to work on is shot selection - not just recognizing what balls you need to get rid of, but when to get rid of them as well. IMHO, work on pattern recognition and you'll see your runs starting to climb.

--Lance
 
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14-1StraightMan said:
Yes, the 8-ball was the correct shot and it is 100% OK to shoot at a pocket when you only have 1/2 of it. That is what makes 14.1 players stand out from the rest. They know how to work the pockets & the rails in order to make a shot and to achieve that correct position.
Click to expand...

TAP TAP TAP!

Very true!
 
Hey Nice shooting Bob !!!

i agree with everything that has been said here so far, but i am going to add to it by quoting Danny DiLiberto. "don't play position when you already have it" you played a nice pattern to break up the remaining cluster at about the 4:00 mark, but at 4:12 you could of played the 6 Ball up table and that would of freed up but of the oher two remaining balls in the equation.

I know it isn't always right to shoot balls heading all the the way up stream but i think in this case it would of solved the problem. from there you could of followed up and worked towards the two other balls that were up table.

Looking forward to seeing more !
-Steve

BTW: lance hit the nail on the head, you play good patterns and have good control think it has alot to do with pattern recognition ! but we all suffer from the same thing. So welcome to the club !!!
 
Hey Bob, I think you pocket balls VERY well. I will agree with the other comments regarding patterns. I think the more you play and the more videos of pros playing you watch, the more the easy patterns will pop out at you that require less CB movement and more importantly, less bumping into OBs.

It's so hard to see the angles correctly to know what other options may have been available to you, but at 4:48 things started going down hill as you bumped balls around on two subsequent shots.

The 10 looked like it was in a good spot for a break where it was, or at least in a good spot to be nudged out by shooting the 6 into the lower right corner, perhaps after touching that 1 ball in the side rather than shooting that ball to the left of the 6 (14 maybe). Hard to see the angles.

Specific shot selection in your video is less important than the concept of finding the "connect the dot" patterns without moving other object balls. Thinking backwards from your break ball helps uncover those sequences.

I think you play very well, and pocket balls well enough to run racks. I wouldn't want to shoot any of those long ones you popped in there like nuthin. :)

Thanks for the video. I'm also jealous of that great pool room, where is that?
 
freeing up the break ball

Steve, you nailed it. yes, i should've walked around and Taken A Look at that 6 ball. that would have freed up my break ball and eliminated the problem i created later entirely. it also would've nudged the other striped ball there a little out of the way and generally opened up the rack area.

that was the turning point in the rack, everything else after that was a struggle, starting with the next shot where i bumped the 5-ball up table and into a loose cluster.

stevekur1 said:
Hey Nice shooting Bob !!!

i agree with everything that has been said here so far, but i am going to add to it by quoting Danny DiLiberto. "don't play position when you already have it" you played a nice pattern to break up the remaining cluster at about the 4:00 mark, but at 4:12 you could of played the 6 Ball up table and that would of freed up but of the oher two remaining balls in the equation.

I know it isn't always right to shoot balls heading all the the way up stream but i think in this case it would of solved the problem. from there you could of followed up and worked towards the two other balls that were up table.

Looking forward to seeing more !
-Steve

BTW: lance hit the nail on the head, you play good patterns and have good control think it has alot to do with pattern recognition ! but we all suffer from the same thing. So welcome to the club !!!
Click to expand...
 
wow. thank you to everyone for taking the time to look at my silly little run and give me such supportive comments. i am truly humbled and honored.

i just got in and it's kinda late, but i will spend some time tomorrow digesting everything you've said while reviewing the video. and now that i've done it once, it won't feel so weird posting my stumbling in front of all of you.
 
OK, here's my few cents worth:

1. You have a nice, smooth stroke - better than I was expecting. Honing that stroke and being able to keep it smooth under pressure situations is an ongoing process (at least for me).

2. At 5:00 you shot that 6 ball and nudged the 10. Your reaction shows that you didn't think that was going to happen. One of two things went through your head before you shot (if you're anything like me): Either you knew it had a chance of hitting the 10, but you were already mentally committed to shooting the 6, so you took your chances, or you honestly thought the cue ball would pass the 10. I hit shots like this for years, often skimming the 10 like you did when it looked to me all the world like it would miss. I figured, "Oh well, I'll just eventually get better at judging those shots." However, as my close cue ball control got better, I kept having that same problem of skimming a ball that I didn't expect to. I finally figured out what was going on, and maybe it will help you... When you hit a cut shot, even with natural rolling follow, the cue ball will first travel in the direction of the tangent line, and then will bend forward and roll along the line you expect. This was the key thing. You have to look at the tangent line and then imagine the cue ball traveling along this line (just a little bit) just before it bends forward. You can play around with this by setting up shots, but you'll need something like a half a ball more clearance than you think with that ball you're trying not to bump into. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

3. At 6:50 you had no real chance of holding the cue ball with draw. However, it looks like you had a good natural angle to hit the 2 with follow and a touch of right english. This would bring you down to the foot rail, brushing the side rail from the english on the way back, and scrubbing your speed for a shot at getting a side break. Even if the shot were a little straighter than I think, you would have had a good shot at going one rail and back for the side break.

Thanks for posting that video!

Dan
 
Thanks Wiggy

First, let me thank you for posting this video. Indeed, it was a pleasure to watch. :)

I cannot comment too much about the run. Others seemed to see the same as I; however, I do question the shot made at 5:36 with (I believe) the 14 ball in the upper left corner. It was hard for me to see the true angle but personally, I would have taken the two in the side for better shape on the five or the eight ball. I am not saying the shot was a bad choice, just not my preference. Granted, if you come up shy on the shot, you have the 10 ball as an insurance ball. Knowing my poor stroke, I would have come up shy and come up with the 5 and 8 acting as a wall. I can’t tell the relationship on distance of the five or 8 to the side pocket.

On the positive note, I like how you continuously look at the rack and analyze the different approach to the shot. You have excellent shot making ability and were catching on to the table speed. I feel if the tape was a bit longer, we would have had the pleasure of watching you run more. Your stroke calmed down and the balls were flowing. :grin:

It is a shame we don’t live close to each other. I would love to shoot some with you and others from the board. I am fortunate by living relatively close to a room owned by John Schmidt (Mr. 400 himself) and periodically go down and kibitz with him. I played him twice in 14.1. Well, let me rephrase that. I racked the balls for him as he ran and ran and ran….. He ran something like 184 the first game and 192 on the second. John is truly a World Class Player and will take some time to help us with our game. Fantastic pattern player.

Again, thanks for posting the video. You inspired me to go out and hit some this week! I can’t wait to see more. :thumbup:
 
14-1StraightMan said:
Beautiful table that you were playing on & it was a ball return on top of it.[...]
Click to expand...

Mike:

Where'd you see that? I saw no ball return on top of the table. Besides, wouldn't that disturb play, if everytime you pocketed a ball, it "returned" on top of the table?

:p

J/K!
-Sean
 
Lol....

sfleinen said:
Mike:

Where'd you see that? I saw no ball return on top of the table. Besides, wouldn't that disturb play, if everytime you pocketed a ball, it "returned" on top of the table?

:p

J/K!
-Sean
Click to expand...

I heard the balls go down the track of the ball return on the video. I can pick out that sound anywhere........
 
Dan and Lance (and later Roger) said something that made me think awhile on this. i was avoiding shooting that 2 in the side because i had Fixated on that being my break ball once i had made a mess of the 10.

i think one of the things holding me back from the Next stage of development is trying to skip past it to the Final stage of development. what i mean is: i've watched soooooo many videos -- many of them dozens of times -- of the greats playing impeccable 14.1, that i'm focusing too much on trying to get the Classic Break every time.

at my level, i should be trying to get A Break of any kind, not going all out to get the Pefect Break. if anyone should "take what the table's giving me" it should be me. and i didn't do that, or even really consider it in this case, and now i see several players who are way out of my league saying that's what they'd have done. maybe that's a hint, eh?

and it's doubly silly, because i practice those alternate breaks More than i practice the classic break. if i've made a crazy hash on the table, i'll often stop, re-rack and practice breaks a couple of times, and most of the time, i'll set up a behind-the-rack break or side pocket break. so i'm actually More comfortable in some ways with a behind the stack break -- either 1-rail and out or 3-rails -- than with the standard break, and usually get quite nice results from it.

many thanks for the continued comments -- you're all giving me a lot of food for thought and i'm learning like crazy from this!
 
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kisses and side pocket position

Dan, thanks for these -- very accurate -- comments. well, at least 2 & 3 are accurate!

2. makes total sense, and thanks for pointing it out. i do often make this mistake and move a ball that i thought i'd miss, and your explanation makes sense of it, finally.

3. you know, that never occurred to me, and i'm pretty sure you're right, it looks totally do-able from the video.

Dan White said:
OK, here's my few cents worth:

1. You have a nice, smooth stroke - better than I was expecting. Honing that stroke and being able to keep it smooth under pressure situations is an ongoing process (at least for me).

2. At 5:00 you shot that 6 ball and nudged the 10. Your reaction shows that you didn't think that was going to happen. One of two things went through your head before you shot (if you're anything like me): Either you knew it had a chance of hitting the 10, but you were already mentally committed to shooting the 6, so you took your chances, or you honestly thought the cue ball would pass the 10. I hit shots like this for years, often skimming the 10 like you did when it looked to me all the world like it would miss. I figured, "Oh well, I'll just eventually get better at judging those shots." However, as my close cue ball control got better, I kept having that same problem of skimming a ball that I didn't expect to. I finally figured out what was going on, and maybe it will help you... When you hit a cut shot, even with natural rolling follow, the cue ball will first travel in the direction of the tangent line, and then will bend forward and roll along the line you expect. This was the key thing. You have to look at the tangent line and then imagine the cue ball traveling along this line (just a little bit) just before it bends forward. You can play around with this by setting up shots, but you'll need something like a half a ball more clearance than you think with that ball you're trying not to bump into. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

3. At 6:50 you had no real chance of holding the cue ball with draw. However, it looks like you had a good natural angle to hit the 2 with follow and a touch of right english. This would bring you down to the foot rail, brushing the side rail from the english on the way back, and scrubbing your speed for a shot at getting a side break. Even if the shot were a little straighter than I think, you would have had a good shot at going one rail and back for the side break.

Thanks for posting that video!

Dan
Click to expand...
 
14-1StraightMan said:
I heard the balls go down the track of the ball return on the video. I can pick out that sound anywhere........
Click to expand...

Mike:

<tisk, tisk> You didn't get the joke. You words were, "Beautiful table that you were playing on & it was a ball return on top of it." Ball return on top of the table?

:p

-Sean
 
Lol

sfleinen said:
Mike:

<tisk, tisk> You didn't get the joke. You words were, "Beautiful table that you were playing on & it was a ball return on top of it." Ball return on top of the table?

:p

-Sean
Click to expand...


Sean, Sean, Sean..... Yes, I realized your joke after I had posted my comment about hearing the ball return.
I'm getting "Old".......
 
wigglybridge said:
i think one of the things holding me back from the Next stage of development is trying to skip past it to the Final stage of development. what i mean is: i've watched soooooo many videos -- many of them dozens of times -- of the greats playing impeccable 14.1, that i'm focusing too much on trying to get the Classic Break every time.

at my level, i should be trying to get A Break of any kind, not going all out to get the Pefect Break. if anyone should "take what the table's giving me" it should be me. and i didn't do that, or even really consider it in this case, and now i see several players who are way out of my league saying that's what they'd have done. maybe that's a hint, eh?
Click to expand...

Firstly, I, like you struggle many times towards the end of the rack. It's more important to me now, more than ever to create good "end maps" because I play so very little these days, sometimes, long shots can be stoppers for me. So it's important not to put myself in those situations if I can help it.

I know I'm not going to convey this very well, but I'll try anyway. Like I mentioned earlier, thinking backwards is a good way to see these end patterns. While it is obviously important to take care of problem balls that don't go early in the rack, later in the rack, when no balls are touching, I like to try to take what I call "interior balls" off the table.

Taking one ball off the table that lies between two others rather than taking off one of the balls that lies at the end of a small group goes a long way towards opening the table up. Being aware of these kinds of things help the end map become much easier to maneuver.

In this example, I've made the stripe balls interior balls that I try to take off asap to open the balls wide. So for example, shoot the 7 off, then with a touch of draw, go right after the 12 which lies between the 5 and 3 and then try to get good on the 13 which lies between the 4 and 8. Maybe even touching the 8 out a balls width or so and playing the 4 next. Soft gentle rolls and touching the CB to move it to the next shot.

I did this quick and while this specific layout may have better ways to go, it doesn't matter. The only idea I'm trying to convey in this explanation is be aware and try getting rid of balls that lie between balls and the rack opens up big time.

CueTable Help

 
thanks, 3andstop!

i did notice your earlier comment about "thinking backwards", and i'll bet that is one of the key things limiting me. i almost always have a "duh" moment on the key-to-the-key, where i realize "damn, if i'd gotten here This way, it would've worked". i guess i should work on developing the discipline to do this when i get down to 5-6 balls on the table; i don't think i'm smart enough yet -- and position-accurate -- to be able to do it much earlier than that.

due to the same CueTable incompatibility that's been talked about before, i can't see your chart, dammit. but i'm pretty sure i get the idea, and at one point in my video, i clearly could've made things easier by doing just what you are saying (shooting the 6-ball up table, as Steve mentioned).

thanks again for helping me out!
 
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