really confused about this..

[marek]

Hi!
Last night I experienced something pretty strange regarding my playing cue.
FYI I have been playing with mezz/wd700 shaft for few months now and I am quite happy with the cue. Before that I was 314-1/2 user for about 7 years.
Yesterday I was in nostalgia mood so I took my old cuetec with fiberglass coated shaft and gave it a good. HOLY COW! Not only I was shooting good, I was shooting great!!! My percentage on tougher shots went much higher than with mezz. I was really shocked by this so I went back and forth with mezz and cuetec few times to get real comparison on the same shots and........truly cuetec for me is the more accurate shooter than mezz...
I have been thinking about this for some time and I found few possible reasons: 1) cuetec shaft is 13mm, mezz wd700 is 12,75mm so the cuetec may give me slightly larger centerball hit on cueball compensating for my possible unwanted off-center hit on cueball 2) cuetec shaft has much longer taper which enables me to do much longer followthrough - about 5 cm longer, which is really some distance when talking about followthrough 3) I always liked the way my cuetec played, liked the weight balance and the weight itself, liked the taper, slimmer grip area than the other cues, the grip itself (some kind of thick rubber), the only reason for changing the cue was that fiberglass s..t they put on their shaft.
What is your opinion on this? Is it thicker shaft that gives me more accuracy, longer taper giving me better followthrough or is it something else? Does R360 have the same super long taper? Does it have the same joint so I can fit it on my cuetec? Does cuetec gen-tec series cues fit with R360 shaft? Still cant believe I am actually considering the return to cuetec........

 

[PaulieB]

Well, you mentioned you shot better, especially better on tougher shots ... but you never really said if the tougher shots were using english or not. One thing I see people talk about all the time regarding LD shafts is that they are tough to get used to. A friend of mine went on and on about how he could not get used to an LD shaft ... and he wasn't using english on the shots he blamed the shaft on for missing.

If you are just talking about shooting great with one shaft over another ... then yeah, maybe you just like that shaft more. Maybe you really like the non layered tip that came on your cuetec fiberglass shaft and it suits you? Maybe you were paying more attention to your shot making because you knew something had changed so you were more careful in your entire routine?

Comparing a 314 that you shot with for years and a 700 shaft that you shot with for a few months against an old Cuetec fiberglass shaft means absolutely nothing if you aren't talking about deflection. If you shoot that much better with that style of shaft and don't use a lot of english, I'd say go with it. If you didn't get used to the 314 in 7 years (as indicated by the cuetec playing so much better for you), then maybe they aren't for you.

As far as the 360 is concerned, I'm not sure what their taper is compared to the fiberglass older shafts, but I would assume it is different. The tip is different, the constuction is different, the feel is different, the LD characteristics are different... I wouldn't run out and buy one without trying it first.

 

[softshot]

Well, you mentioned you shot better, especially better on tougher shots ... but you never really said if the tougher shots were using english or not. One thing I see people talk about all the time regarding LD shafts is that they are tough to get used to. A friend of mine went on and on about how he could not get used to an LD shaft ... and he wasn't using english on the shots he blamed the shaft on for missing.

If you are just talking about shooting great with one shaft over another ... then yeah, maybe you just like that shaft more. Maybe you really like the non layered tip that came on your cuetec fiberglass shaft and it suits you? Maybe you were paying more attention to your shot making because you knew something had changed so you were more careful in your entire routine?

Comparing a 314 that you shot with for years and a 700 shaft that you shot with for a few months against an old Cuetec fiberglass shaft means absolutely nothing if you aren't talking about deflection. If you shoot that much better with that style of shaft and don't use a lot of english, I'd say go with it. If you didn't get used to the 314 in 7 years (as indicated by the cuetec playing so much better for you), then maybe they aren't for you.

As far as the 360 is concerned, I'm not sure what their taper is compared to the fiberglass older shafts, but I would assume it is different. The tip is different, the constuction is different, the feel is different, the LD characteristics are different... I wouldn't run out and buy one without trying it first.

I'm convinced every shot he's ever missed was stroke/alignment error...

I'm convinced every shot you've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm certain every shot I've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm convinced every shot ever missed by anyone ever.... boils down to stroke/alignment error..

wood cannot change bad lines to good lines or vice versa..

cues don't play pool people do..

 

[marek]

Well, you mentioned you shot better, especially better on tougher shots ... but you never really said if the tougher shots were using english or not. One thing I see people talk about all the time regarding LD shafts is that they are tough to get used to. A friend of mine went on and on about how he could not get used to an LD shaft ... and he wasn't using english on the shots he blamed the shaft on for missing.

If you are just talking about shooting great with one shaft over another ... then yeah, maybe you just like that shaft more. Maybe you really like the non layered tip that came on your cuetec fiberglass shaft and it suits you? Maybe you were paying more attention to your shot making because you knew something had changed so you were more careful in your entire routine?

Comparing a 314 that you shot with for years and a 700 shaft that you shot with for a few months against an old Cuetec fiberglass shaft means absolutely nothing if you aren't talking about deflection. If you shoot that much better with that style of shaft and don't use a lot of english, I'd say go with it. If you didn't get used to the 314 in 7 years (as indicated by the cuetec playing so much better for you), then maybe they aren't for you.

As far as the 360 is concerned, I'm not sure what their taper is compared to the fiberglass older shafts, but I would assume it is different. The tip is different, the constuction is different, the feel is different, the LD characteristics are different... I wouldn't run out and buy one without trying it first.

Ok, I will provide some more info. I got used to LD shafts really quickly, to me position play is much easier when you dont have to count with the deflexion much. And you were right, i didnt tell if I used any english on those comparison shots...I actually didnt use any english, only draw or follow, no sidespin. That way I was able to say that I was really more accurate with cuetec, there wasnt any deflexion accounted in my little test.

P.s.: Just to get things in perspective I have been able to beat Ralf Souquet at European championships last year with my 314 so I could play a lick with it... :grin:

 

[PaulieB]

I'm convinced every shot he's ever missed was stroke/alignment error...

I'm convinced every shot you've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm certain every shot I've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm convinced every shot ever missed by anyone ever.... boils down to stroke/alignment error..

wood cannot change bad lines to good lines or vice versa..

cues don't play pool people do..

I could agree with you to a point, except for the fact that using english on shots (especially over any decent length) with a LD shaft and a regular shaft does require some adjustment. While that adjustment could boil down to what you were saying, I know for a fact that for me, getting used to a LD shaft and practicing with it for a while and then swapping to a standard shaft DOES make a difference. It makes a slight difference with all shots, as it is a change in equipment, but I know that I go back to more of a guessing game with any shot with english that I take. After using an LD shaft for a while, when I switch to a standard shaft or a house cue for whatever the reason is ... things change. After trying a shot or two with english and not having the cue go where I am used to it going I end up doing one of two things. I either play a guessing game and try to adjust mid-game or more likely, I switch to a style of play that uses way less english to position my shots. Either one of those is gonna hurt your regular game and neither of them have to STRICTLY do with stroke/alignment errors.

 

[softshot]

some guns are more accurate than others..but the shooter still makes the difference

bullets.. yea not so much.... you might find some that can tweak a tiny part of the spectrum.. but.. it's still going to come down to the man shooting... and the gun its shot from..

you are the shooter ( eyes and brain) and the gun (arm and bridge) the cue is the bullet ( the last thing you can influence)

everything else is a result of the above and completely out of your control

stop blaming the gear

fix what you CAN fix.. how you sight and how you move...

that's all you can do... the rest is excuses

you have to adjust to every shaft.. LD is marketing nothing more

 

[marek]

I'm convinced every shot he's ever missed was stroke/alignment error...

I'm convinced every shot you've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm certain every shot I've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm convinced every shot ever missed by anyone ever.... boils down to stroke/alignment error..

wood cannot change bad lines to good lines or vice versa..

cues don't play pool people do..

I agree with you that "every shot I've ever missed was stroke/alignment error". But I dont agree with you about the cue, thicker tip really gives you bigger centerball hit on cueball so even if you dont actually hit perfect center of the cueball thicker tip will give you less sidespin than the slimmer tip. Try to shoot pool with snooker cue and you will be having hard time to play no sidespin unless you have perfect stroke/alignment...

 

[Ratta]

Ok, I will provide some more info. I got used to LD shafts really quickly, to me position play is much easier when you dont have to count with the deflexion much. And you were right, i didnt tell if I used any english on those comparison shots...I actually didnt use any english, only draw or follow, no sidespin. That way I was able to say that I was really more accurate with cuetec, there wasnt any deflexion accounted in my little test.

P.s.: Just to get things in perspective I have been able to beat Ralf Souquet at European championships last year with my 314 so I could play a lick with it... :grin:

Marek,

it this case it s no wonder for me-- reading this given points for your *cue tech test* (lol), you already gave yourself the answer. Just seems, as you shown up already, that it was easier to hit the center of the cb for you.
And Softshot hit the nail with "wood cannot change bad lines to good lines or vice versa.."


Furthermore it s interesting and funny if people are testing *new stuff*- the concentration (in my opinion/experience) just a bit higher as usual,



lg
Ingo

 

[marek]

Marek,

Furthermore it s interesting and funny if people are testing *new stuff*- the concentration (in my opinion/experience) just a bit higher as usual,

Hi,
I was perfectly aware of that concentration "high" so I changed back and forth the cues to include my mezz in this "high".. As a matter of fact I have scheduled full-day practice session with one german instructor in two weeks time with focus on my fundamentals so hopefully he will help me to get my alignment and lines into their place..

 

[bearsafety]

I'm convinced every shot he's ever missed was stroke/alignment error...

I'm convinced every shot you've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm certain every shot I've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm convinced every shot ever missed by anyone ever.... boils down to stroke/alignment error..

wood cannot change bad lines to good lines or vice versa..

cues don't play pool people do..

Then you have never played with a true LD shaft for a while and tried to pick up a regular HD maple shaft again... Its night and day!

 

[bearsafety]

some guns are more accurate than others..but the shooter still makes the difference

bullets.. yea not so much.... you might find some that can tweak a tiny part of the spectrum.. but.. it's still going to come down to the man shooting... and the gun its shot from..

you are the shooter ( eyes and brain) and the gun (arm and bridge) the cue is the bullet ( the last thing you can influence)

everything else is a result of the above and completely out of your control

stop blaming the gear

fix what you CAN fix.. how you sight and how you move...

that's all you can do... the rest is excuses

you have to adjust to every shaft.. LD is marketing nothing more

Thats close to a PocketPoint statement.. You are talking out of your @$$ now.. We understand you like your regular maple shaft but just because your diehard against them dont make a statement that is factually not true. :kma:

 

[Bob Callahan]

This thread is very interesting because I just did something similar: after shooting with mostly OB-1, G-Core, and a couple of custom shafts, I dug my 30-year-old Huebler (60in, 20oz, 13.3mm) out of storage, and played with it--for 3 games. I hated it. Can't tell you exactly why.

Much talk is made in these forums about deflection...it probably deserves a separate thread, but when you look at the best data we have, there are some surprises. David Alciatore has preserved the old Platinum stuff here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#data

Compare the OB-1 to Axiom, Action, Meucci Red Dot, and 5280, and you'll notice there's only about a 1/4" difference at 50". Not much. Pretty easy to adjust to by shooting a few cut shots with English when you first get to the table.

 

[Pii]

I'm convinced every shot he's ever missed was stroke/alignment error...

I'm convinced every shot you've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm certain every shot I've ever missed was stroke/alignment error

I'm convinced every shot ever missed by anyone ever.... boils down to stroke/alignment error..

wood cannot change bad lines to good lines or vice versa..

cues don't play pool people do..

BINGO! I never did understand why people think LD is better. It still deflects so you still have to compensate and that takes practices and experience with the cue..period

And sometimes deflection can save your ass with shots that need a little curve/squirt to get past. Where the LD cue wouldn't have enough curve/squirt to get by. So for me I prefer a normal cue with more deflection just in case I need it.

If they shot straight and had NO deflection when applying English then it might be different but for now ALL shafts have deflection and you're going to have to learn to compensate with either.

IMO LD shafts are nothing but a sales gimmick.

 

[manwon]

Hi!
Last night I experienced something pretty strange regarding my playing cue.
FYI I have been playing with mezz/wd700 shaft for few months now and I am quite happy with the cue. Before that I was 314-1/2 user for about 7 years.
Yesterday I was in nostalgia mood so I took my old cuetec with fiberglass coated shaft and gave it a good. HOLY COW! Not only I was shooting good, I was shooting great!!! My percentage on tougher shots went much higher than with mezz. I was really shocked by this so I went back and forth with mezz and cuetec few times to get real comparison on the same shots and........truly cuetec for me is the more accurate shooter than mezz...
I have been thinking about this for some time and I found few possible reasons: 1) cuetec shaft is 13mm, mezz wd700 is 12,75mm so the cuetec may give me slightly larger centerball hit on cueball compensating for my possible unwanted off-center hit on cueball 2) cuetec shaft has much longer taper which enables me to do much longer followthrough - about 5 cm longer, which is really some distance when talking about followthrough 3) I always liked the way my cuetec played, liked the weight balance and the weight itself, liked the taper, slimmer grip area than the other cues, the grip itself (some kind of thick rubber), the only reason for changing the cue was that fiberglass s..t they put on their shaft.
What is your opinion on this? Is it thicker shaft that gives me more accuracy, longer taper giving me better followthrough or is it something else? Does R360 have the same super long taper? Does it have the same joint so I can fit it on my cuetec? Does cuetec gen-tec series cues fit with R360 shaft? Still cant believe I am actually considering the return to cuetec........

Is your Name Travis Trotter and do play allot of pool with your Dad?!!!!

It really doesn't matter what kind of you use, in the end it is all about what feels good at the moment, and that can change. The difference between your cuetec and your Mezz really has nothing to with qaulity, it appears that your cuetec has something that suits you better. It could be the balance / weight distribution shaft diameter or many other things.

Like they say with most things if it feel good and it works DO IT!!!!

 

[softshot]

Then you have never played with a true LD shaft for a while and tried to pick up a regular HD maple shaft again... Its night and day!

yes I have. they are slightly different on a few shots..

not different in a better/worse kind of way

different in a not exactly the same kind of way

nothing more, everything else you "know" about LD is marketing

 

[Pii]

Then you have never played with a true LD shaft for a while and tried to pick up a regular HD maple shaft again... Its night and day!

I actually shoot with a Jeff Onley with a normal shaft and a JC with OB-2 shafts (you do consider them "Real LD" don't you) and I change back and for all the time and it doesn't bother me one bit and I don't find it night and day at all, sorry.

I take that back the only night and day part is that the OB-2's are much thinner but as far as hitting goes it doesn't make an once of difference to me which cue/shaft I use other than I'm a little more used to the Onley, which is a maple shaft.

Deflection is deflection you have to learn to compensate for it no matter how much or how little it is. If you can compensate for LD you can do it for a normal shaft with more deflection. Its all in your mind, if it wasn't then ONLY the LD shaft users would be winning and we know that isn't true.

Find me one stat that shows/proves you will win MORE with a LD than you will with a normal shaft. You can't because it doesn't.

Flame away! :grin:

 

[Pii]

Is your Name Travis Trotter and do play allot of pool with your Dad?!!!!

It really doesn't matter what kind of you use, in the end it is all about what feels good at the moment, and that can change. The difference between your cuetec and your Mezz really has nothing to with qaulity, it appears that your cuetec has something that suits you better. It could be the balance / weight distribution shaft diameter or many other things.

Like they say with most things if it feel good and it works DO IT!!!!

I actually carry two very different cues because sometimes when I'm off picking up the other cues just feels different and I start shooting better.

So sometimes just having something that feels a little different just clicks.


BTW how you been sweetheart? LOL

 

[Neil]

................

 

[Nostroke]

When i was playing a lot, i found the 'secret' about twice a month. Sometimes it was a stick, sometimes the grip, sometimes the stance etc. If it lasted 2-3 days, that was a long time. Hope it's different for you.

 

[marek]

Is your Name Travis Trotter and do play allot of pool with your Dad?!!!!

It really doesn't matter what kind of you use, in the end it is all about what feels good at the moment, and that can change. The difference between your cuetec and your Mezz really has nothing to with qaulity, it appears that your cuetec has something that suits you better. It could be the balance / weight distribution shaft diameter or many other things.

Like they say with most things if it feel good and it works DO IT!!!!

No, my name really is not Travis, I am not as famous here as him by a mile!