Does this action constitute unsportsmanship?

donuteric

donuteric

always a newbie
Silver Member
Raced to 8. Score was 6-6.

In rack 13, 4 balls left and my opponent was solidly hooked behind the 9. The 7- and 9-ball were in extreme close proximity, with the 7-ball frozen to the side rail about half a ball distance from the side pocket. Even with BIH, getting the CB from 6 to 7 wasn't easy.

He missed the kick by some margin, and the CB was on its way to the long rail and was in straight path to kick the 9-ball out, which would allow me a much more margin to play position for the 7. Upon realizing that he missed the kick, he immediately tapped the CB literally 2 seconds before it contacted the 9-ball, and handed me BIH.

I consulted the TD with what happened and asked for a win for the rack, but was only rewarded with BIH. I was lucky enough to play the CB 3-rail up table, and shot the 7-ball pocket speed, and it just caught the point and dropped. Although it didn't matter, I'm wondering what the ruling is for this sort of situation.
 
donuteric said:
Raced to 8. Score was 6-6.

In rack 13, 4 balls left and my opponent was solidly hooked behind the 9. The 7- and 9-ball were in extreme close proximity, with the 7-ball frozen to the side rail about half a ball distance from the side pocket. Even with BIH, getting the CB from 6 to 7 wasn't easy.

He missed the kick by some margin, and the CB was on its way to the long rail and was in straight path to kick the 9-ball out, which would allow me a much more margin to play position for the 7. Upon realizing that he missed the kick, he immediately tapped the CB literally 2 seconds before it contacted the 9-ball, and handed me BIH.

I consulted the TD with what happened and asked for a win for the rack, but was only rewarded with BIH. I was lucky enough to play the CB 3-rail up table, and shot the 7-ball pocket speed, and it just caught the point and dropped. Although it didn't matter, I'm wondering what the ruling is for this sort of situation.
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If I'm reading this correctly, then it's only a foul and you get ball in hand.
 
I would say that it's unsportsmanlike. Even on a foul, the balls should be allowed to come to a complete rest before the cue ball is touched. And he shouldn't be the one touching it, either. You have ball in hand, not him, so why is he touching it? He probably did that knowing it was going to hit the 9 and make the layout easier for you.
 
Loss of game. That would be like playing a game of 8ball and you see its going to drop in the wrong pocket so you stop it with your cue. You are changing the layout of the table to your advantage. Loss of game.
 
randyg said:
Lose of game, maybe match.....randyg
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I agree...the action was a major game changer, irrespective of whether it was the result of a brain fart, ignorance or an outright cheat.

Punishible by death in other worlds, loss of game or match (at discretion of TD/ Ref) on this planet.
 
Complicated answer

Well stopping a moving CB on a foul isn't a foul in itself because they already have fouled.

The fact that he may be smart enough and dishonest enough to stop the CB from breaking open the tieup is disturbing. Because of that now the tournament director is put on the spot to make a call based on what he knows. If it were me yes it's misconduct and loss of game. Do it a second time then loss of set by disqualification. How many TD's would do that? Unfortunately not enough of them.
 
Thanks for all the quick responses. If the match was just started, I could've tolerated such behavior a bit better. Anyway, I lost the match on hill-hill because he outplayed me the last 2 racks. This was a single-elimination round to qualify for the championship. I lost in the semi, and only the top threes advanced. So it was kind of a bitter experience.
 
If he touch's the cue ball while it's moving it's a foul, otherwise you have to wait and see if he gets a good hit
 
I have seen this happen in a pro match. SVB vs. Mika, not sure exactly what tournament. Mika missed a shot, and the cueball was heading uptable to break out a cluster (which he played for but since he missed...), Mika brought down his stick and blocked the cueball.

Shane brought over the ref to talk it over and ended up with just BIH like you. He won the game with nice shape on the tied up ball.

These should be game winners though, it's a deliberate ploy to disrupt the game. Pretty much the same as taking the cueball and flinging it randomly at the table after a scratch knocking into balls. If the player is even a C level, they should know better about the rules and conduct expected of them in a match.
 
Based on your description of what happened and also the lay of the table, put me in the "loss of game" category.
 
In my opinion, it should be, at the very least, a loss of game.

Technically, I believe it is just ball in hand. This should be reviewed and changed to reflect what should really happen as mentioned above.
 
donuteric said:
Raced to 8. Score was 6-6.

In rack 13, 4 balls left and my opponent was solidly hooked behind the 9. The 7- and 9-ball were in extreme close proximity, with the 7-ball frozen to the side rail about half a ball distance from the side pocket. Even with BIH, getting the CB from 6 to 7 wasn't easy.

He missed the kick by some margin, and the CB was on its way to the long rail and was in straight path to kick the 9-ball out, which would allow me a much more margin to play position for the 7. Upon realizing that he missed the kick, he immediately tapped the CB literally 2 seconds before it contacted the 9-ball, and handed me BIH.

I consulted the TD with what happened and asked for a win for the rack, but was only rewarded with BIH. I was lucky enough to play the CB 3-rail up table, and shot the 7-ball pocket speed, and it just caught the point and dropped. Although it didn't matter, I'm wondering what the ruling is for this sort of situation.
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Unsportmanship? Nahh,You just got flat out cheated! A pro did that to me one time.He's In the top 10 In the US too.I ran to the director screaming about what happened...Yep all I got was ball In hand.He did the same thing..kicked at a ball from where i had him locked up,and missed the ball and It was flying right at this cluster of balls and he grabbed the cball real quick.Real pro I say.JB
 
In my opinion, picking up a cueball that will inevitably change the layout of the table should ALWAYS be loss of game and the penalty to be considered should be loss of match. The truth is, the penalty needs to be significant here. If the shooter is inevitably going to lose the game unless he touches the cueball, then the penalty for touching the cueball needs to be more significant otherwise, it's not REALLY a penalty.

Of course, there is the absent-minded player who simply wasn't thinking and there are the beginners who had no clue. Both should be exempt from losing the entire match and should simply lose the game. If it can be deemed that this was a calculated attempt to thwart the cueball's inevitable collision with a problem-situation, then the only proper way to rule is loss of match.
 
donuteric said:
Thanks for all the quick responses. If the match was just started, I could've tolerated such behavior a bit better. Anyway, I lost the match on hill-hill because he outplayed me the last 2 racks. This was a single-elimination round to qualify for the championship. I lost in the semi, and only the top threes advanced. So it was kind of a bitter experience.
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You should never have to tolerate that at all, even if it were the first game of the set. Unsportsmanlike conduct is sometimes a subjective call but in this case it seems very clear. I think it should have resulted in loss of game plus a stern warning to your opponent that if he did it again, it would result in loss of match.

Technically, it doesn't matter if the cb was or wasn't about to disturb other balls. He should not have touched a cb in motion. This action is often tolerated when it's clear the cb isn't about to touch another ball, but then it sets a precedent for this kind of thing to occur.
 
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2 fouls in one

Rickw said:
In my opinion, it should be, at the very least, a loss of game.

Technically, I believe it is just ball in hand. This should be reviewed and changed to reflect what should really happen as mentioned above.
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The Tournament director has to take somebody's word so he has to make a call, the more info he knows the better off he is.
Did the oponet agree that the cue ball would have hit another ball? Did anybody else see it?

If I were the TD I would have given a loss of game. It's a foul on a foul. which can't be. So I would have called it unspormanlike.
This is only MY opinion !!!!
 
While it may be only a ball in hand situation, it should be loss of game, in my opinion.
 
I vote loss of game at a minimum, but I would favor loss of match in order to discourage that kind of behaviour.
 
Touching a ball;

www.wpa-pool.com


http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=121&pagetype=rules#6.6
6.6 Touched Ball
It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of any object ball except by the normal ball-to-ball contacts during shots. It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of the cue ball except when it is in hand or by the normal tip-to-ball forward stroke contact of a shot. The shooter is responsible for the equipment he controls at the table, such as chalk, bridges, clothing, his hair, parts of his body, and the cue ball when it is in hand, that may be involved in such fouls. If such a foul is accidental, it is a standard foul, but if it is intentional, it is 6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct.


http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=121&pagetype=rules#6.16
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.


When a player intentionally stops a cue ball from coming to a stop (and probably busting up a cluster) it is considered 'unsportsmanlike' conduct.
Referee's discresion for FOUL, LOSS OF GAME, LOSS of Match or Dis-Qualification from tournament.

Most refs and TDs will only enforce the foul-BIH, especially with the PROS. Personnaly I think intentional fouls should be loss of game and a warning of DQ if it happens again in the tournament.
 
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