ABP may be fixing games and tournaments

[Shawn Putnam]

i have no reson to post you answered me respefully and honestly and thank you for taking the time for doing that. i see your point in paying your dues but one question i have never been to the us open but i would love to go it is a dream of mine. is the attndance as good in a seeded tournament as it is in a no seeded tournament. as a spectator in a non seeded it is very exciting to watch a non seeded because usually every round there is that jam up match that is amazing to watch. and i feel if it was seeded the early rounds wouldnt be like this.

I feel that every young player should pay there dues just like us older players did. When I first started on tour I was never seeded and I knew I had to pay my dues and get ranked high so that I could reap the benefits of being seeded ! Why is it fair that a guy who doesn't support the tour every event , only wants to play in one tour event cause its close to his house, get the chance to have a great draw because of luck ! The Pro's do this for a living and support almost every event . That's wy I believe in seeding ! Pay your dues, get seeded , and you will understand where I am coming from ! IMHO


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SHAWN "Big Bubba" PUTNAM

 

[justadub]

Shawn, I appreciate you posting here under your own name, and taking the time to answer questions.

After this past week, this is especially appreciated.

 

[Shawn Putnam]

i have no reson to post you answered me respefully and honestly and thank you for taking the time for doing that. i see your point in paying your dues but one question i have never been to the us open but i would love to go it is a dream of mine. is the attndance as good in a seeded tournament as it is in a no seeded tournament. as a spectator in a non seeded it is very exciting to watch a non seeded because usually every round there is that jam up match that is amazing to watch. and i feel if it was seeded the early rounds wouldnt be like this.

US Open has been seeded for years and there are always great matches to watch ! In the first two rounds, people are at work all day and can't get to the Open so they would miss the great matches if two champions had to play first round ! Seeding is great if you are a fan ! also if your a player that has worked hard and paid his dues like a Mike Dechaine. (perfect example)

 

[Shawn Putnam]

Shawn, I appreciate you posting here under your own name, and taking the time to answer questions.

After this past week, this is especially appreciated.

Thanks !
I will help in any way that I can !

 

[RunoutJJ]

I see where Shawn is coming from. Personaly playing against any pro is gonna be tough. If you lose your first match then you get sent to the one-loss side and have to tough it out with all the other unranked players. So in actuality it doesnt matter and may be benefical for even the lower skilled guys. You can get further in the brackets playing people your speed until you get closer to the end and in the money. Or you could play against Reyes, Strickland, Archer, Morris, Dechaine for your first match on the one-loss side....

Think about it.... :groucho:

 

[barboxplr]

i think everyone here mad at the abp or not should thank shawn for taking his time and answering questions from the average player. he is a total class act for taking his time to do this and being respectfull to people that have no idea the time and effort he puts into his profession. thanks for your time for answering me in a respecfull manner and good luck in all of your events. this is how the PROS should conduct themselves, he is truely good for the game.

 

[Shawn Putnam]

I see where Shawn is coming from. Personaly playing against any pro is gonna be tough. If you lose your first match then you get sent to the one-loss side and have to tough it out with all the other unranked players. So in actuality it doesnt matter and may be benefical for even the lower skilled guys. You can get further in the brackets playing people your speed until you get closer to the end and in the money. Or you could play against Reyes, Strickland, Archer, Morris, Dechaine for your first match on the one-loss side....

Think about it.... :groucho:

Great point !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[barboxplr]

great example of mike. i remeber watching him at the dcc when it was at the executive west 6 years ago and he has deffinately paid his dues and became a great player.. when we get to hear your side things start to get clearer. thanks for this. the other top players shoould be more like you in my mind.. props to shawn once again

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I feel that every young player should pay there dues just like us older players did. When I first started on tour I was never seeded and I knew I had to pay my dues and get ranked high so that I could reap the benefits of being seeded ! Why is it fair that a guy who doesn't support the tour every event , only wants to play in one tour event cause its close to his house, get the chance to have a great draw because of luck ! The Pro's do this for a living and support almost every event . That's wy I believe in seeding ! Pay your dues, get seeded , and you will understand where I am coming from ! IMHO


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SHAWN "Big Bubba" PUTNAM

Shawn. I appreciate your replies but I'm not sure if you are comparing apples to apples. I get what you are saying in regards to earning your seeding status through hard work and performance; and I get the part about why a player such as yourself who supports every event of the tour should reap the benefit over someone who enters one event a year.

But what tour are you talking about? Also, a professional tour is a different animal. By definition it is made up of events for professionals who are members with maybe some open spots going to those who are not through qualifiers or whatever. If it is a pro tour then I agree, do whatever the members of the tour agree on, including making your bones by climbing up the rankings to get a better seeding.

But what about an event like the Open? It's not a tour, but one single event. And it's open. The amateur that plays in it every year supports it just as much as you or any of the other professionals; perhaps even more in the regards that they are donating to the prize fund. How is seeding fair in this situation?

Also, could you tell me what your idea of seeding is? Is it the whole field being seeded such that #1` plays #128; #2 plays #127, and so on? Or is it a matter of spacing out the top so many (say 32 of 128) in order to balance the bracket? If it's the first one, how would that even be possible in the Open with so many amateurs that can't be ranked?

I don't have a firm opinion on the seeding issue, but I've been putting thoughts out there to get a better understanding of it and would certainly appreciate your response.

Thanks.

 

[JMuck]

US Open has been seeded for years and there are always great matches to watch ! In the first two rounds, people are at work all day and can't get to the Open so they would miss the great matches if two champions had to play first round ! Seeding is great if you are a fan ! also if your a player that has worked hard and paid his dues like a Mike Dechaine. (perfect example)

Reasonable answers from a professional player who seems sensitive to issues and capable of clear written communication.

I'm for the players. I would like to see more of this question and answer exchange and it deservese to be in a better place than this tabloid titled thread simply putting a small fire out.It needs to be where it can deal with a bigger fire.

 

[powerlineman80]

I have no idea if they do this at the Pro-Level but it is very common in local events at least in my local area. It has been going on for years and still is as we speak. Now while the dollar amount are certainly different the concept is exactly the same and all most anyone playing on regular basis in local events know that it is happening.!!

JIMO

I'd say its common in the pro events too. I have no evidence and not accusing any one person but we'd have to be naive to think any different. Some of these pros would cut their own stakehorses throat to make more money with a different one so imagine what they would do to a regular tournament....

Thank You , I never knew so many AZ members hated our pros.
They have been called everything imaginable

I dont hate 'em. I dont know the whole story but am actually in the minority to see them seem to stand up to tournaments that dont pay out right away. Nobody in America "waits" on their money anymore, so why should they? The tournaments dont wait 30 days for their sponsor money, so why should the players? JMO.

Really? I've been noticing it for a long time. Some of the ugly words written on this forum about professional players are hurtful and mean-spirited. It's kind of sad, actually. It's Union Oil on this forum. Get used to it. I have for years!

You are right, alot here are jealous of the players. They hate the fact they are known and make alot of money and are on t.v. Take Keith for example, they hate the fact he was in one of the best pool movies of all time and has made a TON hustling and playing in tourneys. I support anyone that can play this game for money and make a living doing it. Am I jealous I cant? Yep. But am I going to blast them on here and call them names for it? Hell no. Have no reason to so far...

 

[Shawn Putnam]

Shawn. I appreciate your replies but I'm not sure if you are comparing apples to apples. I get what you are saying in regards to earning your seeding status through hard work and performance; and I get the part about why a player such as yourself who supports every event of the tour should reap the benefit over someone who enters one event a year.

But what tour are you talking about? Also, a professional tour is a different animal. By definition it is made up of events for professionals who are members with maybe some open spots going to those who are not through qualifiers or whatever. If it is a pro tour then I agree, do whatever the members of the tour agree on, including making your bones by climbing up the rankings to get a better seeding.

But what about an event like the Open? It's not a tour, but one single event. And it's open. The amateur that plays in it every year supports it just as much as you or any of the other professionals; perhaps even more in the regards that they are donating to the prize fund. How is seeding fair in this situation?

Also, could you tell me what your idea of seeding is? Is it the whole field being seeded such that #1` plays #128; #2 plays #127, and so on? Or is it a matter of spacing out the top so many (say 32 of 128) in order to balance the bracket? If it's the first one, how would that even be possible in the Open with so many amateurs that can't be ranked?

I don't have a firm opinion on the seeding issue, but I've been putting thoughts out there to get a better understanding of it and would certainly appreciate your response.

Thanks.

The US Open is on the Pro Tour list(BCA Points List) because the players think that it is the biggest tournament of the year in the US. I feel a quarter of the field should be seeded in every Pro Event !
Open or not ! I hope the ametuers understand that they are able to pay the same entrys as the pros and just show up and play with the greatest players on the planet ! In what other sport can you just show up and pay and play ! Not Golfs US OPEN ! Or Tennis ! etc.

 

[barboxplr]

well he has got me to change my view i dont know about the others. glad he could clear it up for me. if we could have had him aswer us when this all started i bet it wouldnt have got so blown up the way it did. i hope the open and the abp can work something out and i know who i will be keeping track off and rooting for this year. respect and class goes a long way in my book good luck shawn. i am sure it is hard to be calm as you are about a subject like this but you are a professionall and conduct yourself like you on and off the table. i hope other pros see this and see how to communticate with others like this in a resfecfull manner.

 

[Shawn Putnam]

When I was young I hated the idea of having to draw a top name every event ! Go down to the losers bracket and fight my way into the money. I did it for years but I wouldn't change a thing. It made me a better player and I got respect for paying my dues ! When it came time for me to get ranked, based on my play, I truely felt like a Pro cause I did pay my dues. Cashing in one pro event does not make you a Pro in my eyes.
I feel you are only considered a Pro when your peers deam you as one ! Every Pro has different opinions on this ! JMHO

 

[Shawn Putnam]

well he has got me to change my view i dont know about the others. glad he could clear it up for me. if we could have had him aswer us when this all started i bet it wouldnt have got so blown up the way it did. i hope the open and the abp can work something out and i know who i will be keeping track off and rooting for this year. respect and class goes a long way in my book good luck shawn. i am sure it is hard to be calm as you are about a subject like this but you are a professionall and conduct yourself like you on and off the table. i hope other pros see this and see how to communticate with others like this in a resfecfull manner.

"A Players reputation and Legacy is all he has left when he can't make a ball anymore ! " And you can quote me on that !

 

[barboxplr]

i believe you have gained a lot of respect from the felloz azers tonight. thanks for being honest and letting us understand this subject. the game needs more players like you and i am not talking about skill level i am talking about class and you got it!!!!

 

[Shawn Putnam]

i believe you have gained a lot of respect from the felloz azers tonight. thanks for being honest and letting us understand this subject. the game needs more players like you and i am not talking about skill level i am talking about class and you got it!!!!

Thanks !
That means alot to me !

 

[gunzby]

The US Open is on the Pro Tour list(BCA Points List) because the players think that it is the biggest tournament of the year in the US. I feel a quarter of the field should be seeded in every Pro Event !
Open or not ! I hope the ametuers understand that they are able to pay the same entrys as the pros and just show up and play with the greatest players on the planet ! In what other sport can you just show up and pay and play ! Not Golfs US OPEN ! Or Tennis ! etc.

Once you explained your position on seeding I now have a better idea of your opinion and I actually agree with ya there. Do you think the seeded tournaments should be limited to BCA points tournaments, Mosconi points tournaments, or just all open tournaments?

I would also like to know if you guys in the ABP have been talking about possibly getting sponsors to help create your own tour?

 

[Shawn Putnam]

Once you explained your position on seeding I now have a better idea of your opinion and I actually agree with ya there. Do you think the seeded tournaments should be limited to BCA points tournaments, Mosconi points tournaments, or just all open tournaments?

I would also like to know if you guys in the ABP have been talking about possibly getting sponsors to help create your own tour?

Only BCA and Mosconi Cup Points should be seeded ! A tour may be in the future if we can grow our organization !

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

The US Open is on the Pro Tour list(BCA Points List) because the players think that it is the biggest tournament of the year in the US. I feel a quarter of the field should be seeded in every Pro Event !
Open or not ! I hope the ametuers understand that they are able to pay the same entrys as the pros and just show up and play with the greatest players on the planet ! In what other sport can you just show up and pay and play ! Not Golfs US OPEN ! Or Tennis ! etc.

I proposed that exact kind of thing in another thread to the anti-seeding guys, that say 32 of 128 get spaced down the bracket (1 seeded player every other match), but then the rest of the field is drawn and the top 32 play whoever is drawn into them. As I said elsewhere, this has something good for everyone. Not only do the seeded players not have to play each other immediately, but for the amateurs who dream of playing a world champion they all have a fairer shot of drawing into one before they are put out by a couple of unknown shortstops. For the mid-level pros I think it is fairer too, because with the chart balanced they don't have to worry so much about the luck of the draw. They know they more likely have the same chance as the rest of the guys their speed to make it as far as they can so they have a more equitable opportunity to climb the seeding ladder and earn their stripes.

For the fans it seems there would still be some great early matches. I mean Shawn, would you consider it an easy draw if you got an unseeded Raphael Martinez in the first round, lol? I don't care who you are, there are still plenty of guys outside the top 25% that it's like being in a knife fight to play. And the third round would be gangbusters with most of the big guys against each other trying to stay heading east before getting to the money.

But just to be clear, when you talk about seeding 1/4 of the field, you are talking about spacing them out down the chart to balance the event, not to pit them against the lowest ranked 25%, right? Nor are you talking about giving them byes into later rounds, correct?

Thanks.