What first?

Nevaskard

Nevaskard

New member
I never shoot the right balls consecutively. I seem to be lost on what balls to take first, second and so on.... They say "I would have shot that twelve ball and then it would have been an easy run out" but i just dont see it......I can most of the time look through about 4-6 shots but after that its like a guess on what balls going in next and where i am going to place the cue ball....and when im shooting league I seem to have a block in my mind probably from nerves....

? Should i keep practicing the "looking into the future" technique or is there a better one...

? Is there any great ways to train your mind into "seeing through to all 8 shots"....

is 9 ball good for positioning practice...?
 
I think you are referring to 8 ball as there are choices you have in pattern.

The most that I look ahead is 3 balls when developing a pattern, and I always try to find the simplest routes between each ball that exists. The best being stop shot position.

To help you I would suggest this. Take three balls rack and break them, then take ball in hand and play a stop shot pattern on all balls shoot any ball in any order. After you do this for sometime, and get to the point that you always get out, add three more balls to the mix. When you get to the point that you always get out with 6 add three more, and continue.

9 ball is not the best game for positioning practice, 9 ball has large cue ball zones, and really the most important skill in 9 ball is to get on the correct side of the next shot, so you have an angle to get to the next ball. I believe that straight pool, and 8 ball are better games to play to force you into playing smaller position zones.



Nevaskard said:
I never shoot the right balls consecutively. I seem to be lost on what balls to take first, second and so on.... They say "I would have shot that twelve ball and then it would have been an easy run out" but i just dont see it......I can most of the time look through about 4-6 shots but after that its like a guess on what balls going in next and where i am going to place the cue ball....and when im shooting league I seem to have a block in my mind probably from nerves....

? Should i keep practicing the "looking into the future" technique or is there a better one...

? Is there any great ways to train your mind into "seeing through to all 8 shots"....

is 9 ball good for positioning practice...?
Click to expand...
 
Almost all good players, whether amateur or pro, play what's called 3rd ball position. This is because they want to fall onto a certain angle (usually 30 degrees, or a half ball aim). Consequently the angle on the 3rd shot is dependent on the angle on the 2nd shot, which is dependant on the angle on the first shot. As Tony said, try to think 3 shots ahead, every time you stand down on the table. A pro will definitely "look" through the whole pattern, but still concentrates on 3 shots at a time. I find many advanced students starting out thinking three shots, but quickly reverting to just two shots ahead (what I'm shooting now; what I'm shooting next). A lesson with a qualified instructor could help a lot with your decision making. Some Accu-Stat videos of 8-ball matches could be an eye-opener for you, as well. Reading books like Neil suggested is good too. The only problem with books is that you can't ask them a question...well you can, but I haven't found one yet that can answer back! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Patterns

Nevaskard said:
I never shoot the right balls consecutively. I seem to be lost on what balls to take first, second and so on.... They say "I would have shot that twelve ball and then it would have been an easy run out" but i just dont see it......I can most of the time look through about 4-6 shots but after that its like a guess on what balls going in next and where i am going to place the cue ball....and when im shooting league I seem to have a block in my mind probably from nerves....

? Should i keep practicing the "looking into the future" technique or is there a better one...

? Is there any great ways to train your mind into "seeing through to all 8 shots"....

is 9 ball good for positioning practice...?
Click to expand...

I assume you speak of eight ball. Try and find your out ball. The last ball before the eight. Now play patterns to get there. Look for tough balls and try eliminating them early. Same for tied up balls. Try playing position on two balls at the same time. Try leaving balls in mid table as long as possible as they will help you go places. In general think of putting cue to center of table as this affords more options. Watch great players and say what would I do and watch what they do. Even good players choose the wrong pattern sometimes. Read, watch videos and take a lesson. If you don't know what the tangent line is, ask someone. Pool is moving the cue ball. Shotmaking will come to everyone. Start playing one pocket, the greatest learning game IMO. If you have five balls on one end and two on the other end, go get the two and come back and play a half table game. Short shots. If you can't run out, stop the run and duck out with defense before you go down to one ball!!
 
Excellent advice! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Mr. Wiggles said:
I assume you speak of eight ball. Try and find your out ball. The last ball before the eight. Now play patterns to get there. Look for tough balls and try eliminating them early. Same for tied up balls. Try playing position on two balls at the same time. Try leaving balls in mid table as long as possible as they will help you go places. In general think of putting cue to center of table as this affords more options. Watch great players and say what would I do and watch what they do. Even good players choose the wrong pattern sometimes. Read, watch videos and take a lesson. If you don't know what the tangent line is, ask someone. Pool is moving the cue ball. Shotmaking will come to everyone. Start playing one pocket, the greatest learning game IMO. If you have five balls on one end and two on the other end, go get the two and come back and play a half table game. Short shots. If you can't run out, stop the run and duck out with defense before you go down to one ball!!
Click to expand...
 
I was lucky to have had Ray Martin as my teacher during my early development in the game. One of my problems was like you, pocketing balls in the right order. Ray's advice to me was this:

He said he started out being a shot-maker first and then he became a position player. He said to be the best shot-maker you can be first and then position play will fall into place for you. I was skeptical at the time, but it really did work. He also advised me to play 9 ball for shot-making skills and that worked too.
 
With all respect, I disagree slightly with Fran and Ray Martin. My experience is that most players who learn shot-making and then cue ball control later (sometimes MUCH later), take a big step backward in their learning process as they try to combine shot-making and position. Once I have the new student stroking the cue ball with some consistency, I begin shot-making with the straight in shot. As soon as the student makes a straight-in, I immediately explain the difference between skid and roll on the cue ball, so they can begin with the simplest cue ball control, and not have fear of playing position. In other words, I teach cue ball control right along with shot-making, so that they are never seen as separate challenges for the student. This allows me to teach cue ball control the proper way: IN INCREMENTS...easy shots and easy position first, etc. The way all billiard skills are properly learned: IN INCREMENTS!
 
I had the same problem and I can tell you what has helped me tremendously (I'm still not all the way there yet but lot better). I watched a video of someone on utube (forget who it was but he has a lot of good videos). He just said don't initially think of the entire pattern for every ball or even 3 balls just shoot the next shot and give yourself position for the most shots you can have after. I do that on every shot now and it automatically gets you looking at patterns differently after awhile and I'm sure is the precusor to the 3 ball or whole rack later on. Just my two cents from someone who had the same problems.
 
Nevaskard said:
I never shoot the right balls consecutively. I seem to be lost on what balls to take first, second and so on.... They say "I would have shot that twelve ball and then it would have been an easy run out" but i just dont see it......I can most of the time look through about 4-6 shots but after that its like a guess on what balls going in next and where i am going to place the cue ball....and when im shooting league I seem to have a block in my mind probably from nerves....

? Should i keep practicing the "looking into the future" technique or is there a better one...

? Is there any great ways to train your mind into "seeing through to all 8 shots"....

is 9 ball good for positioning practice...?
Click to expand...

My favorite method for planning a rack of 8 ball is this:
1) figure out if the 8 has a pocket, without having to play insane precise position to get there.
2) figure out if all of your balls have pockets, with or without having to play insane precise position to get there
3) figure out which ball is going to be the most difficult to make, and your first goal is to make shots that get you to where you can make that ball. That could be a 2 ball or 6 ball run right there.
4) now you've got a shorter run to the 8, and just having looked at every ball on the table means you have a better feel for how you need to move around the table.

If the 8 doesn't have a pocket, or I have more than one ball that's locked up (and my opponent has at least one ball that's locked up) I'll usually play defensively to start the rack, and let my opponent go for the runout. Eventually I'll learn how to break balls out while making balls, but for right now the defense first offense second method is keeping me around 60% in 8 ball.

When I first started APA 8 ball, and really for the first year and a half, I would start with the easiest shot on the table. I figured if I could make the first ball, I could move to the next ball and get a run going. If I missed the first ball I was just giving away the table. I think either method works fine for picking your first shot, it's every shot after that that needs some thought.

With Ball in Hand, I always shoot the ball that's the most difficult to play. Hardest ball first, then the rest of your runout is easier. mmm, tasty.
 
Just to practice and warm-up, I do a full 15 rotation(like 9-ball only with all 15 balls). It's smaller zone positioning than 9 and forces more forward thinking with more precision. I even work on defense even if I'm just playing by myself.

I think it's really fun, and you feel great when break and run 15. Also matters what sort of table you're playing on, in my opinion. A brand new 9-foot diamond is a totally different beast than a 7-foot bar table with dead-rails. I think it's easier to see further ahead on a larger/better kept table because you get a MUCH better feel about where your cb is going after each shot, and how your spin and speed effect your position.
 
FranCrimi said:
I was lucky to have had Ray Martin as my teacher during my early development in the game. One of my problems was like you, pocketing balls in the right order. Ray's advice to me was this:

He said he started out being a shot-maker first and then he became a position player. He said to be the best shot-maker you can be first and then position play will fall into place for you. I was skeptical at the time, but it really did work. He also advised me to play 9 ball for shot-making skills and that worked too.
Click to expand...

Would be still a good advice- but nowadays the quality of practicing has increased in my opinion. Some decades ago you have had to learn more *learn by doing* and *try and error*- if you really haven t got the luck like you Fran, my dear :-) I think not many ppl had the luck to have right on the beginning to know such a legend like Ray Martin (next to Mastering Pool my 2nd book "the99 critical shots in Pool").

Today there are so many good books, and also caused by using the internet you ll soon find tons of drills etc. - and also in quality books or *practice books* you ll really find much easier a way for a good structured practicing.

For sure a book can t really answer-and to have right on the beginning a good instructor is the best what you could get. All in all i would say you have to make that the student understands, that he has definitley to spend a lot of table-time and shooting balls. Without that he could have tons of knowledge..it really wouldn t help that much (i m a fan of knowledge for sure, not to be misunderstood).

The advice Ray gave you was and is truth-but today it s a bit easier to increase faster with more experienced instructors and really worked-out practicing-sessions.

just my humble opinion :)

lg from overseas,
ingo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top