if Pool is a sport, then define "sport'

Touche' !! Aslo, the sport of Curling gives out medals at the olympics. This might be a sport with less athletic ability than pool or bowling... but none the less it is a sport......

Pool needs strength to hold the cue, need strength to break, and need strength for jump shots and power draw shots. Need extremely good eye/hand coordination mixed with very analytical mind. Chosing the right pattern in 8ball is the difference between winning and losing most times. And lets not even talk about the chess game known as 1P.... my god, there are so many choices, and if you chose the wrong one, you are cooked.

You think there is a reason us AZB'ers can't compete against the pro's and we have been playing for 10, 20, 30 or more years ?? I've played competivie baseball my whole life, (still play today) and know full well baseball is much harder to play than pool, and maybe all sports, but how come I can't be as good as a pool player as a baseball player?? Beats the hell out of me.

And again, the Int'l Olympic Committe (IOC) has determined that pool is a sport....not sure why it should even been up for discussion. :thumbup:

It's also amazing that the so called "real" athletes (baseball, football, hockey, etc.) can't even compare with a pro golfer who only breaks a sweat because the sun is warm. Many pro athletes play and love golf. Heck, Jim McMahon (formers Bears quarterback) played golf during his entire career and that is all he does in his retirement and yet, he still can't make the senior tour?? There is a lot of money in golf, and why don't these fringe baseball players (guys that are backups, or utility players) who make the league minimum not trading in their baseball bats for golf clubs if is so easy to play lower athletic sports ??

People don't even know what it takes to wield a stick at a cue ball properly or they wouldn't dismiss the athleticism it takes to perform such a demanding movement.
 
Hide and seek is more of a sport than pool. Don't get me wrong, I love pool to death and it takes an amazing amount of talent, hard work and control of your mind and body, just like golf... But (to me) not a sport. It takes zero athletic ability to play pool. Swinging your arm in pool is a very similar motion to beer pong and darts.
 
In this case I agree with you. I think it would be a major mistake to say that pro football linemen are not athletes or athletic. While they may not have the highest strength to weight ratio, and in some cases might even be technically "overweight", I think it is silly to say they are not athletic, when they can run fast, are very quick and agile, and strong as all hell. Also, if you think there isn't considerable skill involved in being a pro football lineman, you need to study that game a bit more.

Likewise, the person that suggested that smaller people with high strength to weight ratios are "more athletic" and/or "stronger" than a big huge guy with lots of strength...here is where that contention falls apart: put a top pro lightweight (I don't know the correct terms, but lets say a guy that weighs under 130 lbs but is "really strong lb for lb".) boxer in the ring with a super heavyweight. Who wins? Strength is a measure of available physical power. The guy that can lift more is stronger than the guy that doesn't lift as much. There's just no two ways about that.

I didn't notice anyone saying that pro football players aren't athletic so I'm not sure why you're wandering off in that direction.

As to your other "point"- battering someone half your weight isn't a test of strength. It's a test of weight. If I remember correctly, lighter Olympic lifters lift almost twice as much as heavier Olympic lifters as a ratio of body weight to lift weight. It can be looked up.
 
Hide and seek is more of a sport than pool. Don't get me wrong, I love pool to death and it takes an amazing amount of talent, hard work and control of your mind and body, just like golf... But (to me) not a sport. It takes zero athletic ability to play pool. Swinging your arm in pool is a very similar motion to beer pong and darts.

Then why can't everyone play at a high level?
 
Yeah, Larry Allen benched 700 lbs and almost had the world record despite having arms 6 inches longer than the average weight lifter. AND ran a -5.0 40 yd dash but he was a weaker athlete??? Almost all lineman can bench around 500 lbs. and can run -5.5 second 40 yd. dashes so try again. Not to mention their footwork.

At one time they compared an LSU/Tulane game. LSU had over 50 guys that could bench press over 400 lbs. compared to Tulanes 2. LSU had wide receivers who could bench over 400 so we're not just talking about lineman here.

As far as football players dunking, Drew Brees can at 5'11. Most NFL players not severely overweight can dunk so you're way off base here again.

Lighter Olympic weightlifters in terms of body weight to lift weight can lift much more than heavier Olympic weightlifters. The lighter ones are stronger.

An Olympic weightlifter 2/3 the size of these football players you mention could probably lift just as much if not more.

The last American to win an Olympic Gold Medal for weightlifting was Paul Anderson in 1956. He lifted the same weight as his opponent but won the medal because he also had a lower body weight. Go argue with the Olympic committee.

You say, "Most NFL players not severely overweight can dunk so you're way off base here again". It looks like you're adjusting your earlier statement to exclude overweight NFL players, however that's defined.

A more accurate statement might be, "Some NFL players can dunk a basketball." Football players are tall and I could be wrong but I'd like to see your list of NFL players who can dunk and a calculation of what percentage it represents of all NFL players.
 
Hide and seek is more of a sport than pool. Don't get me wrong, I love pool to death and it takes an amazing amount of talent, hard work and control of your mind and body, just like golf... But (to me) not a sport. It takes zero athletic ability to play pool. Swinging your arm in pool is a very similar motion to beer pong and darts.

It can be done that way, but thats too easy and the result is a lot of wasted energy.

By your definition anything that has to do with running is a sport. Speed pool would be a sport. It would be more of a sport if you allow your opponent to jump on the table to guard you from your next shot.
 
'pound for pound strength' is the 'horsepower/liter' argument turned to physical exertion, and just as useless of a statistic.

Interesting left field discussion going on here though. :D
 
How did we get away from the original discussion of whether pool is a sport? We defined "sport" in the first three posts, shouldn't that be the end of it?

You have competitive sports, like soccer and tennis, where your opponent is on the field or court with you and attempting to stop you.

You have individual sports, like bowling and golf, where you play for your own score and compete against your opponent's score.

Then you have crazy sports like billiards and curling, where you and your opponent alternate turns, and your opponent's actions can affect your score, and vice versa.

If your physical dexterity is a determining factor in the game, and the game is not played through a joystick or controller, it's a sport. That's why chess and poker aren't sports, and beer pong is.

If you really want to have a discussion about which is the BEST sport, or the most ATHLETIC sport, be my guest, but this thread is way off base.
 
DEFINITION OF SPORT:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sport

1) Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and
often engaged in competitively.

2) A particular form of this activity.

3) An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a
set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

4) An active pastime; recreation.



DEFINITION OF GAME:

1) An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party
games; word games.

2)
a) A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with
each other according to a set of rules: the game of basketball;
the game of gin rummy.

b) A single instance of such an activity: We lost the first game.

c) GAMES: An organized athletic program or contest: track-and-field
games; took part in the winter games. [like the Olympics]

d) A period of competition or challenge: It was too late in the game
to change the schedule of the project.

3)
a) The total number of points required to win a game: One hundred
points is game in bridge.

b) The score accumulated at any given time in a game: The game is
now 14 to 12.

4) The equipment needed for playing certain games: packed the children's
games in the car.

5) A particular style or manner of playing a game: improved my tennis
game with practice.

[there are more meanings to "game" but they are not relevent]



DEFINITION OF HOBBY:

1) An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation
and engaged in primarily for pleasure.
Therefore pool is a sport, game or hobby based on how seriously the individual playing it takes himself
 
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So, all sports are games....but not all games are sports.


THAT CLEARS THINGS UP.:rolleyes:

Why debate this anyway? Game or Sport, thats why we're here. Because we love it.
 
Of course most tennis players are great athletes. Even if they aren't that fast in a 40 yd dash they have tremendous quickness. Many of them have a good vertical jump as well.

Again, I said an athlete should have speed, strength OR quickness. Some of the taller tennis players who just have a big serve aren't nearly as athletic but it's still a very demanding sport.

OK fair enough. I think we are in agreement here.

KMRUNOUT
 
I see a defending of your ideas, but I do not see a definition of the word, 'intellect' nor its parent, 'intelligence'. Since your definition of sport is intrinsic on the definition of 'intellect', I would think long and hard about what the word really means.

Intellect would be activity requiring thought, or the measure thereof.

This isn't a definition? Perhaps it isn't the best definition, or one you agree with...but it *is* a definition.

Since your definition of sport is intrinsic on the definition of 'intellect', I would think long and hard about what the word really means.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. The definition of intellect is specifically *not* intrinsic to my definition of a sport:

Intellect does NOT need to be present in a sport. It MAY be present, (and often is), but doesn't have to be. On the other hand, physical skill MUST be required. Whether this skill requires fine motor control, and a delicate, accurate touch, or power, endurance, and/or speed...is irrelevant to me.

My definition only requires that there is *physical skill*. Let me know if you need a definition for that too. (I'm serious...not trying to be sarcastic).

It is not an easy word to define, and with some serious thought on the subject you may re-think your basis.

Actually I think it is indeed fairly easy to define. "Intellect is the capacity or operation of the mind to store, recall, process, or otherwise operate on information, generally with respect to problem solving or other specifically mental endeavors." How's that work for you? I had a double major of philosophy and psychology in college. I graduated summa cum laude. I can assure you that I have spent LOTS of thought (over $100k worth :D) on the matter of the definition of "intellect". My position is in no jeopardy of changing as a result of a few more minutes of thought on the matter.

I guess I would suggest you read my posts a little closer...it seems like you missed some key ideas.

In any case, great conversation!

KMRUNOUT
 
I don't know who's saying what but as far as athleticism, a ballet dancer can jump vertically in the range of the top 1% of Nba players, and land on his/her tippie toes.

Very good point...I think ballet dancers are amazing athletes. However, I don't think I would call ballet a sport, because I think it also requires that there is some kind of contest or competition involved. Great example though.

KMRUNOUT
 
There are a lot of holes in your criteria for a contest to be considered a sport. So, like many have said...pool IS a sport. If it were said any simplier, it would be on the kiddie menu.

To be fair, he definitely did say that strength *or* speed was required. This means you can have one and not the other and still be considered a sport by his definition.

KMRUNOUT
 
Hmmm

Hide and seek is more of a sport than pool. Don't get me wrong, I love pool to death and it takes an amazing amount of talent, hard work and control of your mind and body, just like golf... But (to me) not a sport. It takes zero athletic ability to play pool. Swinging your arm in pool is a very similar motion to beer pong and darts.

OK, "clearly" says no sport and the Int'l Olympic Committe says sport. Nothing personal, buy your opinion is just that, but when we have the largest and oldest international sporting event in the world stating that billiards is a sport, than we no longer have opinions, now we are dealing in facts.

Please provide your evidence so that we may consider your opinion :grin:

SO some folks don't think it is a sport, that is fine. I mean, some folks don't believe we landed on the moon. Again, with hard cold facts that it is a sport, and yet we still have non-believers !!
 
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I didn't notice anyone saying that pro football players aren't athletic so I'm not sure why you're wandering off in that direction.

As to your other "point"- battering someone half your weight isn't a test of strength. It's a test of weight. If I remember correctly, lighter Olympic lifters lift almost twice as much as heavier Olympic lifters as a ratio of body weight to lift weight. It can be looked up.

Perhaps you haven't read the whole thread, but I figured you would have at least read your own post, #71 in the thread:

A 300 lb. lineman can bench press 400 lbs. Sorry, but that isn't strong. Smaller Olympic weightlifters lift twice as much in terms of strength to weight as large Olympic weightlifters. The bigger athletes are lesser athletes. In fact, the bigger ones are actually weak.

Getting back to the 300 lb. lineman he slams himself into another 300 lb. lineman. That's sport or athleticism? Not really.

I was specifically addressing this idea. I didn't "wander" anywhere. Just following you :smile:

Regarding your assertion about light strong guys vs. heavy strong guys: One of them is stronger. Strength is the *measure* of the ability to generate force. The guy who can lift 500 lbs is stonger than the guy who can lift 400 lbs. Their own weight is entirely irrelevant, unless you happen to be talking about *strength per pound of body weight*. That is a different thing. Referring to *any* Olympic weightlifter as "weak" sounds absolutely absurd to me.

KMRUNOUT
 
hmmmm

Absolutely false. Sit in your chair motionless and report back how many balls you run.

KMRUNOUT

Yep.... I always wondered why I can't break like JA or SVB, or jump with a full cue like Earl, or hit a ball with enough juice to spin it four rails for perfect position.....

Football is a sport, yet some of those guys are some of the biggest fat arses I ever done seen before.. They are athletes....Earl could give them guys the 4 in a 100 yard race or the three is a race of 5 miles (Earl runs 5 miles every day)

The only difference is Earl could go shoot pool afterwards and the football players would be asking for oxygen.
(and yes they are still athletes and football is still a sport, i'm just making a little example here)
 
How did we get away from the original discussion of whether pool is a sport? We defined "sport" in the first three posts, shouldn't that be the end of it?

You have competitive sports, like soccer and tennis, where your opponent is on the field or court with you and attempting to stop you.

You have individual sports, like bowling and golf, where you play for your own score and compete against your opponent's score.

Then you have crazy sports like billiards and curling, where you and your opponent alternate turns, and your opponent's actions can affect your score, and vice versa.

If your physical dexterity is a determining factor in the game, and the game is not played through a joystick or controller, it's a sport. That's why chess and poker aren't sports, and beer pong is.

If you really want to have a discussion about which is the BEST sport, or the most ATHLETIC sport, be my guest, but this thread is way off base.

Excellent post! Very well worded. You hit the nail on the head!

KMRUNOUT
 
DEFINITION OF SPORT:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sport

1) Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and
often engaged in competitively.

2) A particular form of this activity.

3) An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a
set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

4) An active pastime; recreation.



DEFINITION OF GAME:

1) An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party
games; word games.

2)
a) A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with
each other according to a set of rules: the game of basketball;
the game of gin rummy.

b) A single instance of such an activity: We lost the first game.

c) GAMES: An organized athletic program or contest: track-and-field
games; took part in the winter games. [like the Olympics]

d) A period of competition or challenge: It was too late in the game
to change the schedule of the project.

3)
a) The total number of points required to win a game: One hundred
points is game in bridge.

b) The score accumulated at any given time in a game: The game is
now 14 to 12.

4) The equipment needed for playing certain games: packed the children's
games in the car.

5) A particular style or manner of playing a game: improved my tennis
game with practice.

[there are more meanings to "game" but they are not relevent]



DEFINITION OF HOBBY:

1) An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation
and engaged in primarily for pleasure.
Therefore pool is a sport, game or hobby based on how seriously the individual playing it takes himself

I think some of you missed the post that made this thread worthwhile.

It's like........a violin and a fiddle are the same instrument.....
...it just depends on the manner in which it is played
 
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