Match lengths at World 14.1

[PoolSharkAllen]

Any good solution needs to be simple and effective. Even the chess clock idea suffers from what might happen if time starts running low - players making a safety and then running frantically the few feet over to the clock to save possibly precious seconds. Doing this would look terribly unprofessional (anyone remember the marred US Open pay per view match, where Alex Pagulayan and Ralf Souqet (I think) were so short on time they were literally running around the table?)

Here's what I think should be implemented:

- Chess Clock, set for 30 seconds x number of balls racing to.
- If time runs out, ref comes in and starts giving 20 seconds per shot thereafter, no extensions. Any violation is simply a foul, cueball remains in position.
- No running to the clock allowed (I'm kinda serious with that one; it would really look so bad)

That's simple enough, I think.

- Steve

When playing chess, players do frequently forget to punch their clock immediately after making a move. Sometimes opponents pretend to be in deep thought when in actuality, they're just watching their opponent's clock tick down. Then precious seconds or moments later, a player realizes they forgot to punch the clock and finally does so belatedly.

For this reason, I think it would be better to let the referee or someone else handle the clock punching during a straight pool match.

 

[unknownpro]

With all due respect, unknown, I disagree. As soon as I see you're in time trouble, I could slow the game waaaay down. I could start shooting in my break balls early and begin every rack with a 15 minute safe battle. I would hate to see a game decided like this.

- Steve

Those tactics will not work in the beginning of a match. So you cannot make me get behind on time. All you would be doing is giving me opportunities to beat you.

 

[3andstop]

The last thing that should happen if a player runs out of time is taking away points and making the game take longer.

If your clock runs out your opponent should be awarded 15 points for the foul and they would have the option of accepting the table or having the offending player perform the opening break. What do you guys think?

I like that a lot! Great idea. We'll iron this thing out! :thumbup:

 

[Steve Lipsky]

Those tactics will not work in the beginning of a match. So you cannot make me get behind on time. All you would be doing is giving me opportunities to beat you.

I wasn't talking about at the beginning of a match. It would be anytime someone had a little time trouble towards the end of a match.

Listen, it's not my style. I wouldn't do it. Others would, in my opinion. It's a fact that in a given match, both players will not have equally easy layouts. One person's racks will explode; his opponent's will barely move. I just think it's possible to get in time trouble without it completely being your fault.

And all of this says nothing about it from a fan's perspective. In my opinion, you can't have fans paying for matches that just end in the middle of the game. Anticlimactic wouldn't even be the word.

- Steve

 

[sjm]

This is always a tricky topic. There is probably nobody that hates slow play more than me, but I think there is more than one type of slow play.

Here's a simple equation:

The time it takes to play a shot = x + y

where x = the time spent on shot conceptualization
where y = the time spent on execution of the shot once conceived

Steve Lipsky has noted, with accuracy and clarity, that tricky situations can sometimes make it reasonable for a player to spend extra time on conceptualization, but I don't think this is where the problems lie. I believe slow play is far more a consequence of players having lethargic pre-shot routines, for whom the y value is always high, even when the x value is low.

I have always liked the chess clock idea, but only if loss of game is the consequence of running out of time. I'd be similarly comfortable with putting every match on a shot clock from the start, but allowing fifteen extensions per player per 150 point match.

 

[Eddie Robin]

Chess clocks, 15-pt penalty, & 20 secs per remaining added to clock

Steve, your statement actually supports the concept of a chess clock. You are NEVER confined to 30 second shots using the chess clock idea so long as the overall match time is figured out generously to begin with, and so long as the player doesn't drag his or her feet during each of their innings.

If a player paints himself into a corner during the entirety of the match by constantly playing like molasses then it's no ones fault but his own that HIS and ONLY HIS (or her) time is running out. The other player is not even effected or penalized by it and not subjected to the time problem.

As I suggested before, the initial penalty for running out of time with the chess clock doesn't have to be loss of game. It could simply be a 15 point foul with the same rules as 3 consecutive fouls. 10 minutes could be then added to the clock and the game could continue.

Another flag drop and it would be a loss. Of course, ideally playing with no time constraints is best, and the chess clock may not be perfect, but it's a no brainer to see it is better than someone with a stopwatch breathing down your back counting to 30 seconds. That system is simply like tapping in a finishing nail with a sledge hammer. Ridiculous.

Glad I stopped by and saw your post. I’ve wanted time clocks for competitive pool and billiard matches since 1972. I really like your above-described 15-point penalty in 14.1 when a player’s total time has expired and also agree with offending player’s clock reset with additional time.

I suggest, however, that such additional time be calculated on a 20 second avg. for remaining balls. Should offending player’s clock run out while still needing 25 balls to win, for example, an additional 500 seconds (08:20) would be added to his clock. I also like the automatic loss of game for player upon running out of time twice in same game.

Now see how to edit this post and so deleted last sentence which was screwed up and provided explanation in my following message.

Eddie Robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

Glad I stopped by and saw your post. I’ve wanted time clocks for competitive pool and billiard matches since 1972. I really like your above-described 15-point penalty in 14.1 when a player’s total time has expired and also agree with offending player’s clock reset with additional time.

I suggest, however, that such additional time be calculated on a 20 second avg. for remaining balls. Should offending player’s clock run out while still needing 25 balls to win, for example, an additional 500 seconds (08:20) would be added to his clock. I also like the automatic loss of game for player upon running out of time twice in same game.

If one were to have a 500-or 1,000-point challenge match, for example, I'd suggest the penalty be 10-percent of such totals (50- or 100-points).

Eddie Robin

I'd like to better explain what I'd meant in last sentence for I don't know how to edit out the error; I really screwed up that last part. I'd meant time added to clock would be 20 times total of remaining balls in seconds. Player needing 60 more balls would thereby have 20 minutes added to his clock.

Sorry for confusion caused by that screw up!

Eddie Robin