Indicator set

hdgis1

hdgis1

New member
At the risk of exposing my complete ignorance, I am looking into buying an indicator set and, to be honest, I am not entirely sure what I need.

I found an old Starrett 711 Last word set for $39.99 but its all rusty. I suppose cleaning it will do but am worried that the internal mechs might be bad. Also am looking into a Starrett 709A set with a single blade on it for $100. It appears to be in great shape and according to the owner it is only a little over a year old.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

Chris
 
The best time saver I brought was a Noga magnetic base. I have brought the knock off copies,they don't work as well.With the copies, I throw away the arm and use the magnet for other things. It is a mag base with 3 joints that allows the arm to move almost anywhere with a single lock point. I have the heavy duty model MG61003 Just do a search for more info from a local supplier.
I use Girod and Tesa indicators with the long stylis type. A similar imperial model in Girod is GT1254A . I prefer these to the Interapid and other indicators due to the low stylis pressure. Also the shorter stylis can be used and then it becomes a finer indicator. I have the carbide ball set for mine, 1,2,3 mm at 36 mm long and the ruby shorter 2mm ball stylis 12mm long.
These indicators are not cheap, but they will not mark the wood when used to indicate a joint or what ever you want to indicate in. These are very sensitive and will show up errors in roundness, surface finish and machine vibration.
The shorter stylis series of indicators have a considerable amount more pressure on the stylis and will mark wood as well does the plunger type indicators.
Whether you use metric or imperial indicators in most cases is not relevant as it is mostly used to zero in a component. Only when it becomes a comparator and a corrective measure is been taken that it will make a difference, but that is another subject just on it's own.
Of all the indicators I own, and there is about 20 of them, I use the long stylis small face the most, the long stylis big face second, it is a lathe indicator, face is inline with stylis travel as to face being 90deg to stylis travel.
If you don't drop them, they will last you a lifetime. Yes they are expensive, but you are alot more carefull when you have this kind of money in things and learn to treat everything likes it costs a fortune. I have never loaned or let anyone else use these indicators either.
Being able to measure the error is more important than most give it credit. If you can measure ,then you can take steps to correct.If you can not measure it, you will never know it is wrong.
The long stylis can also reach about 35 mm into a hole bored for a pin or what ever and you can see if the hole is concentric or not at that point to the front.
Sorry for the rant, but indicators to me are just as important to the ability to measure something.
Neil
 
Neil - Tahnks for taking the time to respond. Im pretty sure I only understood half of that but it certainly is something to think about! Again, I appreciate you taking the time.

Chris
 
Don't skimp on your indicator man. I have learned how valuable a good indicator is in the last few weeks. When you are checking the runout on a pin,a joint, a chuck, or whatever else you are checking, believe me, you want the closest reading you can get.

Joe
 
DTI and bases

Here are some pics of the Noga stand and the copy base with a noga arm.
The dti on the large arm is my lathe dti .01mm 36mm stylis, the dti on the small noga arm is a plunger type for use as a depth guide or end stop .01mm.There is a interapid .0001 inches, that I sometimes use in the tailstock chuck, a vertical type dti .01mm 36mm stylis that I usually use in the mill , sometimes when I need another dti on something in the lathe it is useful.The large face plunger dti is in .001mm increments and comes with a test readout, showing actual position reading and dial reading for very accurate comparisons, I use this indicator for measuring bearing clearances and endfloat.
This is just a small amount of what I have but the one I use most often is one not pictured,and the two in the stands.
I have 4 Noga stands like the large one, and 2 of the noga arms on bases.I no longer have any of the bar type dti holders. I find them too time consuming compared to these. The larger one has a fine adjustment just after the ball joint on the top.The smaller ones have no adjustment, but I see now that the newer small arm assembly does have a fine adjustment on the base of the arm at the magnet.
I hope this helps you out.
 

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Virtually ALL of my measuring tools are Starrett or Mitotoyo,and most of those are too valuable to me unless I can't find a cheaper replacement to take to tournaments.

This is what I have on indicators. I have a full set of the old-school Last Word parts that came with the indicator. That stuff belonged to my grandfather and was handed out from master to apprentice,I've used it and it rocks,but not very flexible as far as where you can get it to work right.

My Interapid set is new stuff bought by him while I was in school. I have the vertical and horizontal dials,.0005 resolution with .060 travel,and one vertical with .0001 res and .004 travel. Same deal,there won't take those out.

I have a Fowler X-Test I got for 90 bucks that is .060 travel..0005 res which is FINE,and so close to being a re-branded Interapid of same style that I use it,and less than half what the Interapid is cost-wise. Always in Traver's catalogs.

I have a 1" Mito AGD that reads in .001 with a common Mighty Mag.

A really low profile base for AGD,I made it :thumbup:.

I have a cheapo digital AGD,and it works fine but really hard on batteries.

My adjustable bases are a big Noga like pictured above,a small,compact version with a permanent magnet but the short Noga arms,and an old Mito with 1/2 SS rods and big knobs everywhere. I take the small Noga for tournaments.

An AGD and an inexpensive base CAN get the job done,just got to be careful when choosing and setting up. Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
Virtually ALL of my measuring tools are Starrett or Mitotoyo,and most of those are too valuable to me unless I can't find a cheaper replacement to take to tournaments.

This is what I have on indicators. I have a full set of the old-school Last Word parts that came with the indicator. That stuff belonged to my grandfather and was handed out from master to apprentice,I've used it and it rocks,but not very flexible as far as where you can get it to work right.

My Interapid set is new stuff bought by him while I was in school. I have the vertical and horizontal dials,.0005 resolution with .060 travel,and one vertical with .0001 res and .004 travel. Same deal,there won't take those out.

I have a Fowler X-Test I got for 90 bucks that is .060 travel..0005 res which is FINE,and so close to being a re-branded Interapid of same style that I use it,and less than half what the Interapid is cost-wise. Always in Traver's catalogs.

I have a 1" Mito AGD that reads in .001 with a common Mighty Mag.

A really low profile base for AGD,I made it :thumbup:.

I have a cheapo digital AGD,and it works fine but really hard on batteries.

My adjustable bases are a big Noga like pictured above,a small,compact version with a permanent magnet but the short Noga arms,and an old Mito with 1/2 SS rods and big knobs everywhere. I take the small Noga for tournaments.

An AGD and an inexpensive base CAN get the job done,just got to be careful when choosing and setting up. Tommy D.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I do not have the background like my friend Neil in tool room machining and only have developed what skills I have by making cues. I took 2 courses in Dimensional Metrology 35 years ago and that was the extent of my experience.

That being said, I believe anyone building cues can be happy with 2 mag based units, one with a .001 and one with .0005 increments. I use the .001 on my X Travel for measuring tenon cuts and cutting off rings from billets. The .0005 is used for gauging my chuck & pin run out and to check faces when needed.

All of my cue building equipment that has permanent mounted dial indicators are also .001.

Just my take on the subject.

Rick
 
Another thing to consider is there are two types of indicators. One, which I have learned to refer to as a DialOut indicator - Tony calls his a Plunge indicater - measures with a stylus that moves in and out of the stem. The other I refer to as a Dial Test indicator measures with a stylus that moves up and down on a hinge-like attachment. You can see both types in Tony's pictures. Both can measure things the other can't.

My 2 cents

Gary
 
hdgis1 said:
At the risk of exposing my complete ignorance, Chris
Click to expand...

In case you haven't noticed, this place LOVES IGNORANCE. I almost bought a magnet base unit for my Hightower. :grin:

I ended up wth a plunge style digital with a heavy base that I sit on my dovetail. The con is I have no way of checking anything chucked between centers.
 
DanO said:
In case you haven't noticed, this place LOVES IGNORANCE. I almost bought a magnet base unit for my Hightower. :grin:

I ended up wth a plunge style digital with a heavy base that I sit on my dovetail. The con is I have no way of checking anything chucked between centers.
Click to expand...

I think your indicator must be quite different than mine, but below is how I test TIR on shafts, butts, and verify my headstock is true to my ways by running the carriage up and down.

I believe the indicator I have is sometimes called a Travelor's Indicator (other's might call it junk :shocked2:)

YMMV

Gary
 

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DanO said:
In case you haven't noticed, this place LOVES IGNORANCE. I almost bought a magnet base unit for my Hightower. :grin:

I ended up wth a plunge style digital with a heavy base that I sit on my dovetail. The con is I have no way of checking anything chucked between centers.
Click to expand...

Think outside the box....most all of the mag bases have a "threaded" arm. Those arms don't have to be threaded into mag bases.
 
Chris as i said I am making a run of bases that bolt to the top of the taig headstocks....you use the arm just like barenbrugge said....don't mess up a tool post. The bases also bolt right to the cross slide as the t slots are the same....I will have pics on here in a few days
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Think outside the box....most all of the mag bases have a "threaded" arm. Those arms don't have to be threaded into mag bases.
Click to expand...

This is correct.

The advantage of the finger/lever type indicators with the long stylis is that the ball can be placed very close the cutter without the need to disturb any of the setup.
On my lathes, as I have a steel toolpost, I connect the mag base to it.
Ofcourse the arm could also be attached to the crossslide as well or any other convenient place on the machine.
I am a big fan of the finger type dti's . Plunger types I use when I need to see more than a zero reference or to use as a distance gauge.
There are reasons why they make so many different types of dti's and it is not just to make money.
Digital ones are ok, as long as the tolerance you are working to is inside the last digit. Analog indicators will show closer to the last digit that most digital indicators will not.
 
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