set and Pause

[BRKNRUN]

It is interesting that people come along and say I want to learn the "pause".......Yet they don't know why they want to learn it.

If they knew the reason...I would think it would make it much easier to incorporate it into the stroke. :smile:

So far (in this thread) I have not seen much of anything as to "why" the pause is in peoples stroke.

 

[androd]

Try this, get all in your set position with the cue tip almost touching the cue. Now stroke forward. Do not use any kind of backstroke.

When I did this, I found that a big backstroke is really not needed. Just whatever felt right to get the cue into a position to stroke forward comfortably as required by the shot.

This is absolutely the way I shoot the money shots. I have had success with this since I began using it. (quite a few years ago) My biggest problem before, was rushing through the last forward stroke.
Rod.

 

[Scott Lee]

Ken...I posted the reasons in posts #22, 27 & 31. To reiterate...the reason for the "stop" at the end of the backswing is to facilitate an easy transition to the forward accelerated stroke. The reason for the "stop" at the CB is to allow your subconcious brain to decide if you're "ready" or not. Both stops could be labeled a "pause", and both can be of varying lengths of time, to accomodate all styles of play. Ultimately the goal is to let the cue do the work, as much as possible, and provide a smooth transition between backswing and forward stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

It is interesting that people come along and say I want to learn the "pause".......Yet they don't know why they want to learn it.

If they knew the reason...I would think it would make it much easier to incorporate it into the stroke. :smile:

So far (in this thread) I have not seen much of anything as to "why" the pause is in peoples stroke.

 

[JoeyA]

I use a very distinct pause that you should call a stop, at the beginning of my final backstroke.

At the beginning of my final forward stroke, I use a slight pause and no pause at all, depending upon different circumstances but mostly always hope for and plan for a smooth transition from smooth, straight backstroke to smooth, accelerating forward stroke.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Ken...I posted the reasons in posts #22, 27 & 31. To reiterate...the reason for the "stop" at the end of the backswing is to facilitate an easy transition to the forward accelerated stroke. The reason for the "stop" at the CB is to allow your subconcious brain to decide if you're "ready" or not. Both stops could be labeled a "pause", and both can be of varying lengths of time, to accomodate all styles of play. Ultimately the goal is to let the cue do the work, as much as possible, and provide a smooth transition between backswing and forward stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott (or anyone else),

So much of our stroke involves proper hand-eye coordination. In my particular case, it seems like many times I rush the shot in a manner that is analogous to a "twitch or a misfire." To elaborate on my situation, I wear pool glasses that are prescribed for distance vision only. Since I have age-related presbyopia (difficulty seeing up close), I'm basically trying to see up-close objects like the cue ball and cue shaft/tip with glasses that are set for distance vision.

When I get down for a shot, I may deliberately intend to go through the Set-pause-finish sequence but because of my difficulty seeing up close, I oftentimes rush the shot (misfire) without intending to. So instead of a having a deliberate controlled pause before shooting, the shot goes off much faster than I wanted it to. I hope you understand the situation I'm trying to describe here. Might you have any suggestions on how to deal with vision problems interfering with the SPF sequence?

 

[Scott Lee]

Allen...I'm not quite sure why your vision problem would interfere with an SPF type set up and delivery. After all, you can set up a short, straight in shot, align yourself properly, warm up, close your eyes, and then SPF with your eyes closed. When we take away sight, we are left with "feel". This might work for training yourself how you "want" to do your shooting PSR. After 'training' yourself, to get your own sense of timing and rythym right, with your eyes closed...it should work the same, even with your vision impairment. Hope this helps.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott (or anyone else),

So much of our stroke involves proper hand-eye coordination. In my particular case, it seems like many times I rush the shot in a manner that is analogous to a "twitch or a misfire." To elaborate on my situation, I wear pool glasses that are prescribed for distance vision only. Since I have age-related presbyopia (difficulty seeing up close), I'm basically trying to see up-close objects like the cue ball and cue shaft/tip with glasses that are set for distance vision.

When I get down for a shot, I may deliberately intend to go through the Set-pause-finish sequence but because of my difficulty seeing up close, I oftentimes rush the shot (misfire) without intending to. So instead of a having a deliberate controlled pause before shooting, the shot goes off much faster than I wanted it to. I hope you understand the situation I'm trying to describe here. Might you have any suggestions on how to deal with vision problems interfering with the SPF sequence?

 

[peteypooldude]

I acquired it from watching many hours of SVB.
The down fall for me is that it does feel very natural, But... It causes me to use a longer than needed backstroke o n some shots. A buddy of mine
pointed out to me that on a shot where I could pull the cue back a few inches, I will pull it all the way back and pause up to a few seconds.
Although it allows me to get the cue up to speed smoothly, it also
demands that my stroke is straight. And its not always straight.
Especially when I am playing very little like right know.

 

[GaryB]

The velocity goes through zero switching from backward motion to forward motion, but that doesn't mean there's a pause. There's no pause in a pendulum at the turning point, for instance.

A pause requires not only that the velocity be zero but also that the acceleration be zero. And that means in practice there is a force holding the stick in place at the backstroke. Buddy Hall and Allison Fisher have such a force. Other players have such a force there for a shorter time, and thus have a short or slight pause.

Many players have no such force and therefore no pause.

Is there not a pause,even for a pendulum, when it or the stroke hit zero and then start on its next trajectory? How can that not be possible?

 

[sfleinen]

Is there not a pause,even for a pendulum, when it or the stroke hit zero and then start on its next trajectory? How can that not be possible?

Thank you, GaryB! You just posted Exhibit A of the most misunderstood aspect of a "pause" -- that if something stops and changes direction, that in itself "must be a pause." It isn't. Just because something comes to a stop and changes direction, doesn't mean that in itself "is a pause." Here's why...

When you throw a ball straight up into the air, yes, it will slow down, come to a stop, and begin falling to the earth. But the point at which that ball is "stopped" in mid-air is INSTANTANEOUS. There is no "hang time" where the ball stays motionless in mid-air for a measurable period of time. The moment that balls stops, it begins to fall back to earth instantaneously. It may look to your human eye as the ball "pausing" there in mid-air, but rest assured, it isn't.

The same thing with a child swinging on a swing, or with a sinusoidal (sine) wave. That sine wave, when rising and falling, is continuously slowing down, coming to a stop, and changing direction. Yet there is NEVER a pause in this motion. To put a pause in a child's swing, somebody has to grab it and hold it, and then let it go. To put a pause in a sine wave, you have to clip the tops of that sine wave's peaks off (giving them a "flat-top haircut" so-to-speak), thereby making it no longer a sine wave, but making it more resemble a square wave.

I hope that helps,
-Sean

 

[GaryB]

Thank you, GaryB! You just posted Exhibit A of the most misunderstood aspect of a "pause" -- that if something stops and changes direction, that in itself "must be a pause." It isn't. Just because something comes to a stop and changes direction, doesn't mean that in itself "is a pause." Here's why...

When you throw a ball straight up into the air, yes, it will slow down, come to a stop, and begin falling to the earth. But the point at which that ball is "stopped" in mid-air is INSTANTANEOUS. There is no "hang time" where the ball stays motionless in mid-air for a measurable period of time. The moment that balls stops, it begins to fall back to earth instantaneously. It may look to your human eye as the ball "pausing" there in mid-air, but rest assured, it isn't.

The same thing with a child swinging on a swing, or with a sinusoidal (sine) wave. That sine wave, when rising and falling, is continuously slowing down, coming to a stop, and changing direction. Yet there is NEVER a pause in this motion. To put a pause in a child's swing, somebody has to grab it and hold it, and then let it go. To put a pause in a sine wave, you have to clip the tops of that sine wave's peaks off (giving them a "flat-top haircut" so-to-speak), thereby making it no longer a sine wave, but making it more resemble a square wave.

I hope that helps,
-Sean

I thought of the swing example but my memory serves up a remembrance of a distinct pause at the end of the upward arc. Ultimately it seems that we are all hung up on the interpretation of pause and honestly I have not looked it up. Also the phrase instantaneously changes direction somewhat befuddles me. If something is thrown straight up and when it reaches its apex it instantaneously without any hesitation at all begins its descent? I admit my knowledge of science is inferior to many on this board but to me the "stop" can be interpreted "liberally" as a hestitation, pause or perhaps some other, perhaps a more scientific term. I think that we all know what we are talking about and some feel more comfortable with the concept couched in other terms. That is enough for now as I have to look up sine wave. lol Thanks for your comment.

 

[GaryB]

The velocity goes through zero switching from backward motion to forward motion, but that doesn't mean there's a pause. There's no pause in a pendulum at the turning point, for instance.

A pause requires not only that the velocity be zero but also that the acceleration be zero. And that means in practice there is a force holding the stick in place at the backstroke. Buddy Hall and Allison Fisher have such a force. Other players have such a force there for a shorter time, and thus have a short or slight pause.

Many players have no such force and therefore no pause.

Is there not a pause,even for a pendulum, when it or the stroke hit zero and then start on its next trajectory? How can that not be possible?

 

[Maniac]

Is there not a pause,even for a pendulum, when it or the stroke hit zero and then start on its next trajectory? How can that not be possible?

There is a pause on the tip of the cue, not necessarily on the on the butt cap. The grip hand CAN make a circular motion (similar to Busty) and the tip will go somewhat straight back-and-forth meaning the cue tip pauses at the point in between going forward and backward (and vice-versa) while the grip hand stays in motion (circular) without any discernable pause. Watch a steam locomotive's wheels and you'll get a better visual of what I'm talking about.

Maniac

 

[Island Drive]

Dave:

Actually, I like your modified terminology -- "deliberate pause." Being a math major myself, I'm on Mike's side concerning this. There is a very dramatic difference between the change in direction that a child on a swing takes (a true pendulum), and someone reaching out, catching that child's swing at one far extreme and holding it there for a split second before letting it go.

As we math and electronics majors know, there is a dramatic difference between a sinusoidal wave, and a square wave or a clipped sawtooth wave. A square wave (clipped saw tooth wave) has distinct "pauses" built in -- it "holds" there for a measurable period of time before it changes direction. The sinusoidal wave has no pause -- but yet, it still changes direction! To say that a pendulum "has a pause built-in 'just because' it changes direction" shows a misunderstanding of what a pause really is from a true definition standpoint. That word "temporary" used in "temporary cessation" means TIME. Meaning, a measurable period of time. Instantaneous change in direction (such as that in a true pendulum or a child's swing, or even elliptical motion of a locomotive's wheel pushrods) is not a measurable period of time. I think that's the word that's being missed.

Pairing the word "deliberate" up with the word pause is a good idea to avoid the arguments over terminology. (Although I think we are remiss if we can't even agree on a simple word like "pause" -- especially when used in a teaching position.)

-Sean

Ciscero Murphy exemplifies PAUSE, better yet, ''stops'' at the height of his backswing for 2-3 seconds, all others in the universe are most likely less, wouldn't you agree Randy G?

 

[Scott Lee]

Bill...Buddy Hall does the same thing...possibly holding even longer. It's a BIG universe...there are likely others like Cisero and Buddy, that we don't know about. Mine is usually quite short...probably in the 1-2/10's of a second. Both are pauses...just different lengths of time.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Ciscero Murphy exemplifies PAUSE, better yet, ''stops'' at the height of his backswing for 2-3 seconds, all others in the universe are most likely less, wouldn't you agree Randy G?

 

[AtLarge]

... I wear pool glasses that are prescribed for distance vision only. ...

Suggestion -- get a prescription for your pool glasses that is a compromise between your reading prescription and your distance prescription. This recommendation is independent of your comments about SPF, but it may help in that regard, too.

 

[GoldCrown]

Suggestion -- get a prescription for your pool glasses that is a compromise between your reading prescription and your distance prescription. This recommendation is independent of your comments about SPF, but it may help in that regard, too.

Agreed...and sorry to divert here....
Specialty eye wear for "pool only" works. I cannot read with mine. I cannot see long distance. But they are perfect for pool. There are threads about this.....

 

[gunzby]

I use one and it came very quick for me to start using it. I went to see Steve Jennings, he showed me spf and by the time I came back tomorrow for round two it had already sunk in.

I will say that some things I had to seriously grind out. I had to grind out not rushing a shot. By this I mean taking a step back and coming forward instead of walking from one side to the other and sidestepping into the shot. I would start off one the 1 ball taking a step back, chalking up and shooting. By the time I made it to the 4 ball I was sidestepping again. I still have work to do on this one, so the pause might just be like my sidestepping.

 

[randyg]

Ciscero Murphy exemplifies PAUSE, better yet, ''stops'' at the height of his backswing for 2-3 seconds, all others in the universe are most likely less, wouldn't you agree Randy G?

100% agree.

"It's not the length of time BUT the quality of the Transfer.".....randyg

 

[Mikjary]

And while we're embracing the science, let's establish a verbal scale so we can completely remove any doubt of getting inaccurate instruction. There can be the distinct pause, the deliberate pause, the definite pause, the long pause, the very long pause, the short pause, the miniscule pause, the waiting for the bus pause, and don't forget about, we all understand the concept of the pause pause. We definitely need to overthink this obvious perceived idea and inject a measurable, robotic time frame into the mix.

Next up is the grip. What is a loose grip? Should it be designated as too tight if there is a metal to metal sound, a slight squeak, a grinding noise, a rubbing sound like before you use a personal lubricant? Can you hold a bird in your hand without crushing it, or an egg, or a rock, or bologna sandwich?

Better yet, when anybody comes on this forum with any idea, let's pile on if there's even a hint of a subjective idea. This game should be totally scientifically debated at every turn and completely ignore the human element. Let it go the way of video games and we don't have to even get up to play it. We can use a controller from our easy chair.

I understand science. I use it everyday for work. I took the electrical engineering route in college. But I haven't lost sight of the concepts of the human mind, like a pause. We get it, we got it, we knew it before we heard about SPF. I'm done. I think I'll pause here. It will be a new, heretofore undocumented pause called...going to work, TTYL. :grin:

Best,
Mike

 

[Island Drive]

And while we're embracing the science, let's establish a verbal scale so we can completely remove any doubt of getting inaccurate instruction. There can be the distinct pause, the deliberate pause, the definite pause, the long pause, the very long pause, the short pause, the miniscule pause, the waiting for the bus pause, and don't forget about, we all understand the concept of the pause pause. We definitely need to overthink this obvious perceived idea and inject a measurable, robotic time frame into the mix.

Mike, how about the graph.
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. Pause, its unlimited