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Sane Disquisiti

New member
Howdy!

Recently, an opportunity has come up for me to purchase a pool table, and I have never owned one before.

However, I have a personal issue regarding certain materials used. As I am a vegan, I try to avoid goods that include materials that come from animals, such as (but not limited too) leather or wool.

I do frequent a local pool bar, so this has never been an issue before. But I wanted to know if others more knowledgeable than I know of any way to obtain a pool table and cue sticks that don't contain animal products. Either a specific place to shop, or alternative materials (if they are viable) that I should ask for when browsing.

Any information on the subject would be much appreciated, as I really don't know a whole lot about what actually goes in to a pool table material wise. Obviously, I'm no expert on the subject.

Being new, I do apologize if this is in the wrong section, or violating a rule I missed/forgot to read. And I would appreciate any assistance on the subject.

Thanks in advance for any informative replies,

- Sane
 
animal products

you are gonna be out of luck because the cloth is a wool blend but aside from that you should be ok if you stay away from leather pockets.
 
It's tough to be a strict vegan in modern society. A lot of things use animal products in their processing, which aren't required to be listed as ingredients or components. There are synthetic tips...hum...I wonder it there is a synthetic cloth? What about playing on other people's tables? Does the fact that they use wool bother you?
 
I don't understand why wool would be off limits to a vegan. It's not like any animals died to provide the wool nor would you be eating it.
 
Sane...No offense to your beliefs, but imo you're going overboard here. Pool cloth is made of wool...pool table pockets (good ones) are made of leather...cue tips are made of leather. Get used to it...or don't play. Professional player Max Eberle is also a strict vegan, but he does not shy away from wool or leather. Perhaps you should PM him with your "problems" and get his opinion.

Scott Lee
wwwpoolknowledge.com

Sane Disquisiti said:
Howdy!

Recently, an opportunity has come up for me to purchase a pool table, and I have never owned one before.

However, I have a personal issue regarding certain materials used. As I am a vegan, I try to avoid goods that include materials that come from animals, such as (but not limited too) leather or wool.

I do frequent a local pool bar, so this has never been an issue before. But I wanted to know if others more knowledgeable than I know of any way to obtain a pool table and cue sticks that don't contain animal products. Either a specific place to shop, or alternative materials (if they are viable) that I should ask for when browsing.

Any information on the subject would be much appreciated, as I really don't know a whole lot about what actually goes in to a pool table material wise. Obviously, I'm no expert on the subject.

Being new, I do apologize if this is in the wrong section, or violating a rule I missed/forgot to read. And I would appreciate any assistance on the subject.

Thanks in advance for any informative replies,

- Sane
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quadrary said:
you are gonna be out of luck because the cloth is a wool blend but aside from that you should be ok if you stay away from leather pockets.
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I have come across various tables with leather pockets, and will be sure to steer clear of those.

I hadn't known that the cloth was wool (I had always assumed it was felt). That is good to know. Thanks!


Bob Callahan said:
There are synthetic tips...hum...I wonder it there is a synthetic cloth? What about playing on other people's tables? Does the fact that they use wool bother you?
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I have no issues with playing on other people's pool tables, for reasons having to do with supply and demand, and the fact that playing on a friend's pool table (who would have the table regardless of whether or not I'm there) doesn't directly promote anything I'm philosophically oppose to. Of course, different vegans draw the lines at different places, so I wouldn't consider myself the norm.

I should probably clarify though, as I am much less concerned about wool than I am about leather or fur, for obvious reasons.

If synthetic cloth/tips did exist, would it effect the table and cue sticks performance in any significant way? Or, would it be illegal to use a cue stick with a synthetic tip at a local tournament?

Anydo, I appreciate the response.

gsm1sw said:
I don't understand why wool would be off limits to a vegan. It's not like any animals died to provide the wool nor would you be eating it.
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From a technical standpoint, anything that comes from animals (regardless of death involved) is "off limits" (so to speak). Obviously, different people who consider themselves vegans draw the line at different places, and it's one of the reasons why I'm willing to get something with wool (though I would definitely prefer an alternative). I probably should've clarified in the OP.

However, I'd rather not get into a discussion about veganism in this thread, and keep it to the topic of what materials are available to someone like me.

I'd be happy to answer any questions in a PM or email, but I'd rather not in this thread.


Bob Callahan said:
Forgot to say: Welcome to AZBilliards!

BTW, you aren't the only vegan here. This thread, although old, may be of some help:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=113596

and:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=111191
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Thanks for the links. I'll be sure to check them out.
 
You shouldn't have a problem, except at higher levels of league play and breaking.

B. Phenolic Tip Rule:

As of June 1, 2009, the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League in “Equipment Specifications” under “Cues,” item d. states:

“The cue tip must be composed of leather, fibrous, or pliable material. Phenolic cue tips are not permitted.”

The BCA Pool League is amending this rule to state:

“THE CUE TIP ON BREAK CUES MUST BE MADE OF LEATHER WITH NO NON-LEATHER MATERIALS ADDED TO THE CONTACTING SURFACE.”

There have been questions asked, such as: “What if I break with my jump cue?” and similar questions. It is very simple. Whatever cue you break with must have a leather tip.

The reason for this rule is that the BCA Pool League has witnessed too many examples of damaged cue balls. After consultations with Aramith and Simonis, it has been determined the major contributing factor in cue ball damage is the hardness of the tip on break cues.

For several years the WPA has taken the position that the cue tip may not be of a material that can scratch or damage the cue ball. The BCAPL subscribes to the WPA philosophy.

This policy only applies to break cues. Jump cues are allowed to have a leather or non-leather tip - since it is difficult to stroke with enough force to cause damage.

This rule will be in effect at the BCAPL National 8-Ball Championships and regional tournaments that the BCAPL promotes. Promoters, directors and operators of events such as league play or local tournaments may alter the rules as they see fit."
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Even then, given your beliefs, it would probably be wise for a tournament director to allow a synthetic tip. Other AZB folks directly involved in tournaments could probably give you better counsel on this than I can.

If you've posted in other public forums before, you are probably aware that vegans often catch a bit of flak--people who'd never think of telling someone that their Passover beliefs are foolish, may feel fine telling you that yours are. Ignore that handful. Almost everyone at AZBilliards will glad to help you if they can.
 
However, I'd rather not get into a discussion about veganism
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Yeah well, when you announce to the rest of the AZ world that you are a strict vegan and are opposed to leather cue tips, you are bound to invite
some others opinions. Not going to get away from that.

So, do you feel good about yourself every time you kill a tomato?

Porper does make a synthetic tip in soft, Med and hard.
I have some hards but I doubt you'd like them much.

Worth a try tho. If you can't find any and you'd like to try them, I can hunt one down for you.
 
DoubleD said:
You know what humans are, correct? Yep, the most advanced form of animal.
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And I am going to question your beliefs.

The human animal is the dumbest, most destructive beast on Earth. Its extinction would be a most welcome improvement. Unfortunately, the way things are going now, extinction of the human animal will only occur with the destruction of just about everything else. It has been prophesied: The fire next time.
 
Scaramouche said:
The human animal is the dumbest, most destructive beast on Earth. Its extinction would be a most welcome improvement. Unfortunately, the way things are going now, extinction of the human animal will only occur with the destruction of just about everything else.
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I cannot agree more with these statements!!!

Maniac
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Yeah well, when you announce to the rest of the AZ world that you are a strict vegan and are opposed to leather cue tips, you are bound to invite
some others opinions. Not going to get away from that.
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I'm not saying I didn't expect others opinions to be thrown in, however, I didn't think it was too unrealistic to expect certain individuals to either couple their opinions with a more "on-topic response" (like you did, for example), or simply leave them out entirely. Preaching/arguing veganism never was my intention when asking for more information on the subject of Billiard materials (though given some responses of others, I may have to).

Fortunately, most people have given fairly constructive responses that have helped. I'll be sure to check out the cue tips you recommended as well, thanks!



DoubleD said:
So, as the conscientious vegan you are, am I to assume that you pollinate all of the fruit trees and plants that provide you your food? Do you never eat mushrooms? I also have to believe that all of the crops that your food comes from are completely non intrusive and that the owners of those crops allow deer, elk, antelope, raccoons and rats to run rampant in the fields and warehouses?

Surely you must be able to explain this hypocrisy that you cannot attest to all the conditions I've listed above to make sure that no living things are exploited for your convenience.
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This response seems odd, as I can't tell if you don't understand the difference between sentient and non-sentient life (and consequently, why there is a distinct concern for animals more than plants from the veg(itari)an community), or if you simply believe veganism to be an inexorable commitment to all life.

Either way, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of veganism, as well as a misunderstanding of the difference between "needs" and "wants", as well as the nature of animal agriculture itself.

DoubleD said:
I really don't understand veganism. Vegetarian, sure, I get it. Not wanting to buy leather products for fear that the animal was slaughtered for the hide alone, okay. Worrying that sheep are sheered is asinine. I've worked around shearing crews. My uncle owns thousands of sheep. Those sheep are not handled roughly when they are sheared because they need complete fleeces that are properly trimmed. It is the same level of distress for the mindless sheep as it is for a four year old child to get a haircut. Yeah, they hate it, but afterwards you give them a treat and they forget all about it.
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Well, for starters, you don't have to understand veganism. Never once in the OP did I ask anyone to understand veganism, or even hint that I wanted others to become vegan.

Honestly though, the the anecdotal experience from a random forum user over the internet means very little. It's moderately insightful, but no more insightful than actual video footage, or personal research done on the subject.
 
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