Secrets!

JB Cases said:
Since Professor Johnson says there are no secrets and that everything one needs to know is at Dr. Dave's website let's have a little thought experiment.

Two rank beginners are each locked in separate rooms for a month. Each has a pool table and cues of exactly the same specifications.

The first player, we will call him Public Domain or PD for short, has access to the internet and can receive all instruction he gets ONLY from the internet. He can read articles, watch YouTube, do video chats etc...

The second player is locked in with 3 world champions and no access to the internet. We will call this player The Rookie or Rook.

At the end of exactly 30 days PD and the Rook match up on TAR playing a round robin of 10 Ball, One Pocket, and Banks for $100,000.

Who do you want to bet on?
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Are you serious? Do both players have tables to play on? I think it's obvious that the guy who has the 3 pros would win............

He gets practical application in real game situations, while the other may get to play, he still does not get to compete.

My money is on the player with the pros.....
 
JB Cases said:
Since Professor Johnson says there are no secrets and that everything one needs to know is at Dr. Dave's website let's have a little thought experiment.

Two rank beginners are each locked in separate rooms for a month. Each has a pool table and cues of exactly the same specifications.

The first player, we will call him Public Domain or PD for short, has access to the internet and can receive all instruction he gets ONLY from the internet. He can read articles, watch YouTube, do video chats etc...

The second player is locked in with 3 world champions and no access to the internet. We will call this player The Rookie or Rook.

At the end of exactly 30 days PD and the Rook match up on TAR playing a round robin of 10 Ball, One Pocket, and Banks for $100,000.

Who do you want to bet on?
Click to expand...

Not a fair comparison...U leaving out the heart factor...just like in fighting whether it's mma,street,boxing...some people got it & some people don't...can't buy it or teach it.
 
houmatroy said:
Not a fair comparison...U leaving out the heart factor...just like in fighting whether it's mma,street,boxing...some people got it & some people don't...can't buy it or teach it.
Click to expand...

Assume that BOTH players have an equal amount of heart. Everything about them is equal EXCEPT for where they get their information about how to play the game.
 
JB Cases said:
Assume that BOTH players have an equal amount of heart. Everything about them is equal EXCEPT for where they get their information about how to play the game.
Click to expand...

then i'd give the nod to the guy with hands on teaching...when you can stop & ask a question you don't quite understand it's priceless...you can read the same thing a thousand times & if you don't really get it or it's concept then you just don't get it...can't ask the book or whatever you read to explain...JMO
 
JoeyA said:
Patrick,
You look like you enjoy violating the forums rules. What is it with you?
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You're right, Joey - my apologies. I pissed Mikjary off in another thread tonight enough to make him threaten me, and that surprised me enough to make me stop and think. Maybe I'm taking my latest banning out on the forum in general.

Apologies to everybody (except those who enjoyed it).

pj
chgo
 
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What if my pool secret is .... " I don't have the money to pay you if I lose"

does that change any ones opinion on keeping pool secrets??
 
"... 750 shots in 50 different categories. ... with 250 useful "gems" of the game.
... every shot every pool player should know ... and some your shouldn’t. ... all new and original video footage
... the most comprehensive collection of shots ever published. ... with extensive online resource support
... each disc contains much more information than is typically found on instructional videos.
... real shots for real people. ... all of pool's secrets revealed.
... learn all of the shots you need to get you out of trouble, help you be more creative, and win more games and matches.
... the definitive video reference and resource for serious pool players and instructors ... a "must have" in any pool player's library.
... organized to help you quickly and easily find the information and advice you want and need.
... everything you need to elevate your game to the next level. ... everything you need to assemble a complete pool game."

But Patrick said that there aren't any secrets. They are all part of the public domain. Which means that all the information that Dr. Dave is SELLING here should be available for FREE somewhere.

Where would that be? Not to knock Dave but what he "gives" to pool is ALL in service to selling books and videos. If I am wrong then let's see him strip out EVERY reference to the books and videos he sells from his website. Leave all the tips and glossaries and links to helpful resources. I am a Dr. Dave fan though and I agree that his website contains a ton of great information for beginners and intermediate players. But to get to the "secrets" you must purchase the set of DVDs for the low price of $149.95 - not exactly public domain. That's what Dave says in the ad copy I quoted above.
 
JB Cases said:
"... 750 shots in 50 different categories. ... with 250 useful "gems" of the game.
... every shot every pool player should know ... and some your shouldn’t. ... all new and original video footage
... the most comprehensive collection of shots ever published. ... with extensive online resource support
... each disc contains much more information than is typically found on instructional videos.
... real shots for real people. ... all of pool's secrets revealed.
... learn all of the shots you need to get you out of trouble, help you be more creative, and win more games and matches.
... the definitive video reference and resource for serious pool players and instructors ... a "must have" in any pool player's library.
... organized to help you quickly and easily find the information and advice you want and need.
... everything you need to elevate your game to the next level. ... everything you need to assemble a complete pool game."

But Patrick said that there aren't any secrets. They are all part of the public domain. Which means that all the information that Dr. Dave is SELLING here should be available for FREE somewhere.

Where would that be? Not to knock Dave but what he "gives" to pool is ALL in service to selling books and videos. If I am wrong then let's see him strip out EVERY reference to the books and videos he sells from his website. Leave all the tips and glossaries and links to helpful resources. I am a Dr. Dave fan though and I agree that his website contains a ton of great information for beginners and intermediate players. But to get to the "secrets" you must purchase the set of DVDs for the low price of $149.95 - not exactly public domain. That's what Dave says in the ad copy I quoted above.
Click to expand...

Only one thing left out. You can't teach "Stroke!" :grin:
P.S. I know a "trick" to help you develop your stroke though. It will be in my next book. Ha Ha!
 
softshot said:
What if my pool secret is .... " I don't have the money to pay you if I lose"

does that change any ones opinion on keeping pool secrets??
Click to expand...

Happens all the time , problem is , you only know about it when they lose , what happens if they beat you? They collect the money.
people who bet and don't pay should at least be barred from the pool room .
Most pool room owners or help don't do anything.
I think they are scum and deserve a good beating.
 
JB Cases said:
"... 750 shots in 50 different categories. ... with 250 useful "gems" of the game.
... every shot every pool player should know ... and some your shouldn’t. ... all new and original video footage
... the most comprehensive collection of shots ever published. ... with extensive online resource support
... each disc contains much more information than is typically found on instructional videos.
... real shots for real people. ... all of pool's secrets revealed.
... learn all of the shots you need to get you out of trouble, help you be more creative, and win more games and matches.
... the definitive video reference and resource for serious pool players and instructors ... a "must have" in any pool player's library.
... organized to help you quickly and easily find the information and advice you want and need.
... everything you need to elevate your game to the next level. ... everything you need to assemble a complete pool game."

But Patrick said that there aren't any secrets. They are all part of the public domain. Which means that all the information that Dr. Dave is SELLING here should be available for FREE somewhere.

Where would that be? Not to knock Dave but what he "gives" to pool is ALL in service to selling books and videos. If I am wrong then let's see him strip out EVERY reference to the books and videos he sells from his website. Leave all the tips and glossaries and links to helpful resources. I am a Dr. Dave fan though and I agree that his website contains a ton of great information for beginners and intermediate players. But to get to the "secrets" you must purchase the set of DVDs for the low price of $149.95 - not exactly public domain. That's what Dave says in the ad copy I quoted above.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's unfair of him to ask money for his work, do you ?
Or are you just making a point with PJ?
Having that much good information in one place is worth something, even to a penny pincher like me!
I was working on a book about pool players and hustles and some biographic stuff till I got sick. Maybe one day I will finish it.
Hopefully the economy won't get much worse and I will be able to make it a free download.
 
sheffield6 said:
Patrick Johnson said:
It may be unknown to many players, but that doesn't make it a "secret". Coming on a discussion board to announce "I now something you don't and I'm not telling" is as juvenile as it sounds.

pj
chgo[/QUOTE
i agree
Click to expand...

#1. No one here seriously said that they have something "secret" that they won't tell anyone else. I know Jay is half-serious though because he likes to gamble so why divulge things that he thinks give him an edge to people he might end up gambling with? But mostly he is just yanking Joey's chain for the fun of it. As for me I wouldn't tell Pat what's in Freddie's book because Pat should already know it and where it was available for free prior to Freddie disclosing the info.

#2. In any interaction between people information that is known by one party that gives an advantage over another party is a secret. It's that simple. So it's semantics to argue that something isn't a "secret" because it's common knowledge elsewhere. Valuable information kept hidden is the definition of a secret.

I often play players who can run out as well as I can. But they can't kick as good as me. Why not? They haven't learned the same technique that I learned from Jimmy Reid. That technique IS "out there" on the net for free for anyone who searches enough to find it. 20 years ago it wasn't easily available and I can guarantee you that the good players weren't running around and giving it up on every street corner.

Even today, with this system commonly printed in books and available on the net players STILL don't know it. I still get asked what I am doing when I make killer kick shots. I could choose to keep the information secret and let them go find it if they can OR I can show them, which is to say I divulge my secret and teach them the simple double-the-distance method of figuring kick shots. I always teach them.

Ever heard of magical twisting chalk? Someone made quite a bit of money running around the good old USA using something that was common where he came from but unknown where he was plying his trade.
Click to expand...
 
book collector said:
I don't think it's unfair of him to ask money for his work, do you ?
Or are you just making a point with PJ?
Having that much good information in one place is worth something, even to a penny pincher like me!
I was working on a book about pool players and hustles and some biographic stuff till I got sick. Maybe one day I will finish it.
Hopefully the economy won't get much worse and I will be able to make it a free download.
Click to expand...

Of course I am making a point. I don't begrudge Dave making money on what he has compiled. He is trying sincerely to elevate pool knowledge in general and I think he does that. I just disagree with Pat that Dr. Dave's site contains all the pool knowledge one needs. I also disagree with Pat that all pool knowledge is in the public domain, which is to say it can be had for free. Of course the ideas are free to be passed on once learned. No one can patent a method of striking a ball. (well they shouldn't be able to)

So really I could buy the VEPS and simply make my own version using the knowledge learned. What I am paying for is the collection of shots not the shots themselves. The point however is that until I do PAY for them or until someone else learns them and gives them away for free they are not available to me and not in the public domain.

Thus, even Dr. Dave says that there are secrets waiting to be revealed. For 149.95 payable in five easy installments! :-)
 
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