How Ethical Is It?

qbilder said:
If you order a cue from me and pay a $10 deposit, then decide you don't want the cue anymore & somebody else pays the remainder, that person gets the cue. I don't care how much they paid you to get that opportunity to buy the cue. It's none of my business. I get the money that I charge for the cue, regardless who gets the cue in the end. It is likely a minor PIA for me to drop dealing with you & begin somewhat fresh with somebody else, but that's all part of it. I change the name & address for shipping & maybe have to change a few personal details such as tips & shaft diameter, etc., but nothing much different than folks who change their minds at the last minute regarding specs.

Overall, I see nothing unethical about it. If there were lies & deceit involved then yeah, it's unethical. But so long as everybody is on the same page & things are clearly dealt, then nothing is unethical. My opinion.
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Thank you for taking the time to reply. Always interested to hear it from a cue or case makers point of view.

There are no right or wrong answers here....just wondering what thoughts were on the subject. It's not something I hear about happening very often, if at all until recently...so was just curious.

Can't learn if you don't ask questions.

Lisa
 
SLIM said:
if the person who ordered the cues for whatever reason cannot or does not want to pay for the cues it seems to me that he is doing the ethical thin by finding another buyer for the cues.

If he makes a profit from this transaction, so what.

That would be a lesson learned by the cue maker.

I am not sure what you mean by "he decides not to pay for the cues".

SLIM
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I do not recall saying anything about a profit being made, as I do not know if that is the case. I was told the person commissioning the items had "refused to pay for the items" commissioned. Instead, listing the items with the bulk of the payment going to the makers and the deposits coming back to themselves.

I simply pondered if this is considered an acceptable practice. Apparently, so far, it is. I had no clue.

Lisa
 
Like I said on the other forum... no harm. No foul. The cuemaker gets paid either way so no big deal.

Just out of curiosity, why would one make a formal request to be removed from the forums? If you're done with them, why not just stop posting? :confused:
 
As long as the cue/case bulder gets paid the full amount he charged, I see no problem with whatever the buyer does with the case or cue.
 
TATE said:
Hi Lisa, good to see you posting again.

I saw for example recently somebody trying to do that with an $800 cue. It went something like - pay me my $100 deposit back and pay the cue-maker the $700 balance, and you have the cue.

Since there was no profit involved, I think it's totally ethical as long as the stated facts are true and each person is aware of and approves the 3 way agreement.

- I'm sure the cue maker would rather have $700 than an unsold cue and $100 cash.

- The original buyer would rather not lose his $100 deposit

- The prospective new buyer can buy a cue from a presumably desired maker without a long wait.

I see it as win-win-win.

The way the economy is, the circumstances are such that a typical six month to a year wait can find a lot of people out or work, investment accounts down, home values upside down , etc - all of which could affect someone's desire to spend on non-essential items.

Chris
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Thank you Chris....I can certainly understand this rationale. Just simply did not know if it was an accepted practice or something that is frowned upon.

Lisa
 
I thought the items were almost but not complete.

ridewiththewind said:
i do not recall saying anything about a profit being made, as i do not know if that is the case. I was told the person commissioning the items had "refused to pay for the items" commissioned. Instead, listing the items with the bulk of the payment going to the makers and the deposits coming back to themselves.

I simply pondered if this is considered an acceptable practice. Apparently, so far, it is. I had no clue.

Lisa
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generally, remainder of payment (minus deposit) is due when item is complete. Not sure how someone can refuse to pay before payment is due.

SLIM
 
mia said:
Like I said on the other forum... no harm. No foul. The cuemaker gets paid either way so no big deal.

Just out of curiosity, why would one make a formal request to be removed from the forums? If you're done with them, why not just stop posting? :confused:
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Well, as I previously stated on the other forum...my requests were denied, in both forums. Apparently I have some sort of value here, and there. Who would have thunk it?

I originally posted some items for sale, and received a PM about a situation that the sender felt was perhaps sketchy. Not knowing what the general feeling is on the matter, I decided to ask. I never stated if it was or wasn't ethical, I was asking if it was ethical. Can't learn if you don't ask. Simple as that.

Lisa
 
Don't see any problems with this whatsoever. Ultimately the final buyer in this scenario will decide if the price they are asked for the cue is what they are willing to pay or not. If it's gouging, then don't buy it. Duh?
 
SLIM said:
generally, remainder of payment (minus deposit) is due when item is complete. Not sure how someone can refuse to pay before payment is due.

SLIM
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Just relaying what I was told. On the flip side, how can you hype something without ever seeing it in your hand? That one does have me scratching my head. :scratchhead:
 
shinobi said:
Don't see any problems with this whatsoever. Ultimately the final buyer in this scenario will decide if the price they are asked for the cue is what they are willing to pay or not. If it's gouging, then don't buy it. Duh?
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I never stated anything about price gouging either....as far as I know, the seller is selling for the debt owed.
 
Cool

ridewiththewind said:
just relaying what i was told. On the flip side, how can you hype something without ever seeing it in your hand? That one does have me scratching my head. :scratchhead:
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hey, as long as everyone got their money & their product it is a wash.

As far as making claims about a cue you havent seen, to me it is no different than saying any cue is a monster hitter.

Good chatting with you & enjoy the day,

SLIM
 
SLIM said:
hey, as long as everyone got their money & their product it is a wash.

As far as making claims about a cue you havent seen, to me it is no different than saying any cue is a monster hitter.

Good chatting with you & enjoy the day,

SLIM
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I guess I see your point...obviously not every cue is a monster hitter......or maybe they are, and that is what is causing the market to go flat! ;)
 
ridewiththewind said:
Just relaying what I was told. On the flip side, how can you hype something without ever seeing it in your hand? That one does have me scratching my head. :scratchhead:
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You're right, that would be a lie and intentionally misleading.

But, "hit" is totally subjective anyway so I pay 0 attention what anyone says about how a cue hits.
 
In the pool world it may be unethical but in the world of banking and politics it is standard practice. People like Franklin Raines and Robert Rubin made hundeds of millions of dollars while bankrupting their companies and walked away with the cash.
 
People flip Cues all the time, and Southwest come to mind. I know if you have a Southwest coming, and decide to flip it, Roy @ IndyCue is always looking to pickup another Southwest for his inventory. He weill give you more than your cost as quick as 1, 2, 3. Roy sells a lot of Southwests, and get very few from Laurie Franklin directly, so guess whewwre he get his new Southwest...FLIPPERS!

There was a fellow about a year ago who one day posted his DREAM CUE from Barry S. he would never sell. A few days later it was FOR SALE, and I believe he sold it for a profit.

Honestly if you buy a Cue, or Case, pay the builder, and decide to sell it IMHO you are free to do so.

Like a STOCK you bought for a Buck a SHARE, and all of a Sudden it goes to 50 Bucks A SHARE. What you should ride the high and low, and wait & sell it a 50 CENT A SHARE....NOT
 
ridewiththewind said:
To sell items, such as cues and cases, when you have custom ordered them, decided not to pay for them, and sell them just before they are completed? Not talking about a single cue or case here and there, talking about multiple ordered items.

Just curious.
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When someone orders multiple items like that, I would guess that it would be a red flag to the manufacturer that there is probably intent to resell the items. No?

If I were a cuemaker and found out that someone was putting my items up for sale and at a profit with no work on their end, even before they took delivery, I would be pissed as all hell.

I would then make sure it didn't happen again by contractual agreements with all clients. They would have to sign an agreement as a condition of the sale not to resell my cues for a certain period of time, and breach of contract would have legal repercussions. This may not stop people from hawking the cues, but they won't be able to go public, and they would always have to wonder if they were going to get caught.

Another thing a cuemaker can do is to report them to the IRS on suspicion of not having a sales tax resale number.
 
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Why would you care?

francrimi said:
when someone orders multiple items like that, i would guess that it would be a red flag to the manufacturer that there is probably intent to resell the items. No?

If i were a cuemaker and found out that someone was putting my items up for sale and at a profit with no work on their end, even before they took delivery, i would be pissed as all hell.

I would then make sure it didn't happen again by contractual agreements with all clients. They would have to sign an agreement as a condition of the sale not to resell my cues for a certain period of time, and breach of contract would have legal repercussions. This may not stop people from hawking the cues, but they won't be able to go public, and they would always have to wonder if they were going to get caught.

Another thing a cuemaker can do is to report them to the irs on suspicion of not having a sales tax resale number.
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why would you do that to someone just because they were making a profit.

Would you also turn in another cue maker if he sold more cues than you?

Do you really think cuemakers turn in all their profits to the irs?

SLIM
 
Lisa, you should know better. Asking a bunch of pool players about ethics is inherently...................well, you know. Hope all is well with you. :smile:
 
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