Need help aquiring ferrule material

hdgis1

hdgis1

New member
I posted this in the machine section and apologize if posting it here is to much.

I'm on a quest to provide some objective data concerning ferrule materials. In particular, their Shore-D hardness rating. After countless hours of searching the forum for said info, all I can find is "this one hits softer than that one and harder than this one". Nothing to useful there. Furthermore, since most suppliers use their own names for what should be common plastics, tracking down that information has been fruitless.

What I need is for people to volunteer small pieces of ferrule rod so that I can send them to another forum member for some testing. Pieces don't have to be any longer than 1/2". It would be nice if they were un-drilled. I'd like to get as many samples as can be found. Only caveat is that they be plastic in nature. No bones or ivories!

So far I have Titan, Juma, Phenolic, Elforyn, and G10. And thanks to Rick some old micarta! Anything you guys can provide would be of tremendous help. Just post on here what you can provide and I will send you a PM later to finalize. Once the data has been compiled I will gladly post it on here for all to see and hopefully save the next newbie a few days of futile searching.

Chris
 
OK I've got -

Grice - Thanks Kevin
General Electric 1960 Micarta - Thanks Rick
Mason H micarta
Ivorine 4 and LBM - Thanks Brent!
Delrin and ABS - Thanks Jack!
Titan
Juma
Elforyn
Phenolic - Linen Rolled
G10
MPI and PVC - Thanks Bob!
Ivor-X - Thanks BRuppert

We're getting there! Anybody got any Ivorine 3 or Aegis 2? Saber-T or Porper?

Chris
 
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hdgis1 said:
OK I've got -

Westinghouse MIcarta - Thanks Rick
Mason H micarta
Ivorine 4 and LBM - Thanks Brent!
Delrin and ABS - Thanks Jack!
Titan
Juma
Elforyn
Phenolic - Linen Rolled
G10
MPI and PVC - Thanks Bob!

We're getting there! Anybody got any Ivorine 3 or Aegis 2? Saber-T or Porper?

Chris
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Chris,

Today I am sending General Electric 1960s Micarta from a spiral wrapped sheet agregate produced in rod form, not Westinghouse Laminated Micarta.

Same stuff but different manufactoring process. I am hoping you get some Westinghouse Stuff so I can see the difference.

Rick
 
Last edited:
hdgis1 said:
I posted this in the machine section and apologize if posting it here is to much.

I'm on a quest to provide some objective data concerning ferrule materials. In particular, their Shore-D hardness rating. After countless hours of searching the forum for said info, all I can find is "this one hits softer than that one and harder than this one". Nothing to useful there. Furthermore, since most suppliers use their own names for what should be common plastics, tracking down that information has been fruitless.

What I need is for people to volunteer small pieces of ferrule rod so that I can send them to another forum member for some testing. Pieces don't have to be any longer than 1/2". It would be nice if they were un-drilled. I'd like to get as many samples as can be found. Only caveat is that they be plastic in nature. No bones or ivories!

So far I have Titan, Juma, Phenolic, Elforyn, and G10. And thanks to Rick some old micarta! Anything you guys can provide would be of tremendous help. Just post on here what you can provide and I will send you a PM later to finalize. Once the data has been compiled I will gladly post it on here for all to see and hopefully save the next newbie a few days of futile searching.

Chris
Click to expand...
I think the construction of the cue ferrule may be more important then the actual material it's self. To make a comparison you have to assume all ferrules are installed using the same techniques. For example one may be 1" long have a 1/4 inch cap drilled and tapped 5/16 and be threaded on, while another is 3/4 long, thin wall, drilled all the way through and be sleeved on with many variations in between. The method you use to install the ferrule regardless of material is what you have the most control over as a cue maker. Of course I am talking about new installations not repairs of existing ferrules.
 
Lets assume that they are all 5/16-18 capped ferrulle 3/4" long. Material has got to make a difference?

Chris

macguy said:
I think the construction of the cue ferrule may be more important then the actual material it's self. To make a comparison you have to assume all ferrules are installed using the same techniques. For example one may be 1" long have a 1/4 inch cap drilled and tapped 5/16 and be threaded on, while another is 3/4 long, thin wall, drilled all the way through and be sleeved on with many variations in between. The method you use to install the ferrule regardless of material is what you have the most control over as a cue maker. Of course I am talking about new installations not repairs of existing ferrules.
Click to expand...
 
hdgis1 said:
Lets assume that they are all 5/16-18 capped ferrulle 3/4" long. Material has got to make a difference?

Chris
Click to expand...
Although interesting, neglectable really compared to what the cue makers own design input can contribute, yet that is rarely discussed. There seems to have developed a sort of magical thinking regarding some materials.
 
macguy said:
I think the construction of the cue ferrule may be more important then the actual material it's self. To make a comparison you have to assume all ferrules are installed using the same techniques. For example one may be 1" long have a 1/4 inch cap drilled and tapped 5/16 and be threaded on, while another is 3/4 long, thin wall, drilled all the way through and be sleeved on with many variations in between. The method you use to install the ferrule regardless of material is what you have the most control over as a cue maker. Of course I am talking about new installations not repairs of existing ferrules.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, installation technique will certainly contribute to the 'hit' of the material. However, it seems that the OP isn't trying to replicate or compare 'hit' directly, he's simply comparing the hardness of the various materials.
 
I might add...that nothing beats experience working with the materials. I've installed and played with every ferrule type available enough that I know exactly how it hits...capped and/or tube...how durable it is....how clean it stays...type of adhesive that works best with each...and etc. I can explain to customers the difference between each and how that applies to their cue & their game. Being able to do this is EXTREMELY important because thats what it takes to tune a cue to a players needs. If someone wants a softer hitting shaft then mp ivory or Juma are two good choices...or if they've cracked several ferrules in the past, LBM capped or Iv4 are two of the best options. Iv4 is the most bulletproof ferrule material ever offered...it'll flatten hack saw teeth in 2 seconds, it takes carbide to cut it. What if someone wants a very durable ferrule but with the softest possible hit? Then Grice would be my #1 choice. There is an endless list of possibilities...I feel it wouldn't be wise to steer a customer or try and tune a shaft by looking at a list of numbers with limited experience working with the material. Nothing beats simply installing 100's of each while forming your own opinion and also getting feedback & thoughts from your customers as well. Sorry for the ramble...just my thoughts. Now back to your regular schelduled program.:grin:
 
Kevin - I totally agree with the moral of the story here. Experience is hard to beat, ever! However, All these factors can be quantified in some way and I think that starting with a simple hardness test is as good a place as any.

Chris

PS - Would you care to provide a sample of the Grice? :D

Varney Cues said:
I might add...that nothing beats experience working with the materials. I've installed and played with every ferrule type available enough that I know exactly how it hits...capped and/or tube...how durable it is....how clean it stays...type of adhesive that works best with each...and etc. I can explain to customers the difference between each and how that applies to their cue & their game. Being able to do this is EXTREMELY important because thats what it takes to tune a cue to a players needs. If someone wants a softer hitting shaft then mp ivory or Juma are two good choices...or if they've cracked several ferrules in the past, LBM capped or Iv4 are two of the best options. Iv4 is the most bulletproof ferrule material ever offered...it'll flatten hack saw teeth in 2 seconds, it takes carbide to cut it. What if someone wants a very durable ferrule but with the softest possible hit? Then Grice would be my #1 choice. There is an endless list of possibilities...I feel it wouldn't be wise to steer a customer or try and tune a shaft by looking at a list of numbers with limited experience working with the material. Nothing beats simply installing 100's of each while forming your own opinion and also getting feedback & thoughts from your customers as well. Sorry for the ramble...just my thoughts. Now back to your regular schelduled program.:grin:
Click to expand...
 
hdgis1 said:
PS - Would you care to provide a sample of the Grice? :D
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OK...but Chris if I catch you selling a cue with a Grice ferrule...LOL!:grin:
Seriously...Grice in ferrule size hasn't been available for many years. What I was told was the plant that made the old fibre tubing, also made Grice...and of course it burned down and both haven't been available for many years. The little bit of Grice I still have already has 1/4 id....will that be ok? If so, pm me your addy & I'll put together a little care package for you...there are many ferrules you haven't even mentioned. Plus I have a new one that I had a plastic company make tubes in ferrule size for me (that wasn't cheap but I got ferrules for life:thumbup:)...just started using it and so far its ideal. Extremely lightweight for LD purposes, stays clean, and very durable as well...not quite bulletproof, its intent is for players not j/b's.
 
Kevin I would be interested in some info on this material if you care to reveal:smile:...you can just pm me if you prefer
 
ComptonCustomCues said:
Kevin I would be interested in some info on this material if you care to reveal:smile:...you can just pm me if you prefer
Click to expand...

John right now I'm keeping it for myself as I feel I finally hit on the right source & material. I may sell some or reveal at some point...just not yet. Some of the best stuff is commonly used in other applications with no connections to billiards. Just a simple plastic that won't melt under pool conditions, VERY lightweight, stays clean & cleans up with a fingertip...and the best yet...its what Hightower would call a "high action" ferrule...yet with the hit of a denser material. The hit is very similar to the old Grice...blindfolded I can't tell a difference. After going through a ton of samples & options...I'm finally 100% satified so far. Very similar to early 314 ferrules...except bright white and doesn't do the Pred. droop/melt.:thumbup:
 
Everyone has been of great help so far! Still looking for the following -

Aegis II
Saber-T
Porper
XTC
Ivorite III ?
Ivorine 4
PVC

I think we are almost there for the common ones. Of course I couldn't even tell you which ones are common!

Chris
 
hdgis1 said:
Everyone has been of great help so far! Still looking for the following -

Aegis II
Saber-T
Porper
XTC
Ivorite III ?
Ivorine 4
PVC

I think we are almost there for the common ones. Of course I couldn't even tell you which ones are common!

Chris
Click to expand...

I'm sending all those except for the Porper.
 
darn

Varney Cues said:
John right now I'm keeping it for myself as I feel I finally hit on the right source & material. I may sell some or reveal at some point...just not yet. Some of the best stuff is commonly used in other applications with no connections to billiards. Just a simple plastic that won't melt under pool conditions, VERY lightweight, stays clean & cleans up with a fingertip...and the best yet...its what Hightower would call a "high action" ferrule...yet with the hit of a denser material. The hit is very similar to the old Grice...blindfolded I can't tell a difference. After going through a ton of samples & options...I'm finally 100% satified so far. Very similar to early 314 ferrules...except bright white and doesn't do the Pred. droop/melt.:thumbup:
Click to expand...


showoff....your just teasing me now.....:banghead:...kind of like telling a diabetic you come up with a new chocolate that is suger free taste better and zero calories:slap:....well if you ever want to maybe shall we say hook me up just let me know.....:happydance::thumbup:
 
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