I googled him. I guess you are right again :grin:
Notable NFL Players Coached or Trained:
* JaMarcus Russell, QB, prior to being selected first overall in NFL Draft
and a couple of other guys nobody's ever heard of.
The Talent Code
- Thread starter chefjeff
- Start date
I googled him. I guess you are right again :grin:
Notable NFL Players Coached or Trained:
* JaMarcus Russell, QB, prior to being selected first overall in NFL Draft
and a couple of other guys nobody's ever heard of.
A good instructor puts the student on the right path and helps motivate the student to work hard and smart. The rest is up to the student. There isn't a substitute for working hard to figure things out for youself.
This is true for all aspects of life. I know you are fairly successfull. Therefore, I'm comfident you know the value of hard work.
I don't know about the resumes of many of the instructors out there, but would be all ears, er, eyes, to read about them.
So maybe we just agree to disagree -- I think you're better off with someone who can really play the game. I mean, let's throw out the trophies for a moment, and even monies won matching up, and just say that the guy should be able to rum multiple racks on a regular basis.
As to me -- no, I don't consider myself qualified to teach. I have had many people approach me about lessons and I always point them to Mark (so many, he probably owes me some jelly). Only when someone insists have I given lessons. I certainly do not advertise myself as any kind of pool instructor.
Lou Figueroa
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Of course I can pass things on to others. But that doesn't make me an instructor. And we agree: "I believe there is a huge benefit to spending time with and around great players." That's my point. You should be hanging around and, if so inclined, taking lessons from great players -- not mediocre ones. If you have a choice, it's not even close.
Lou Figueroa
I think we're saying the same thing here: there's nothing wrong with going to an instructor, but you will still have to HAMB.
Lou Figueroa
A great player can make a difficult shot and get position on the next ball 9 times out of ten.
A lesser player can make the same difficult shot and get position on the next ball 7 times out of ten.
It's not specific knowledge that make great players better than most. It is the ability to execute! This great player may or may not be able to help the lesser player increase their ability to make this shot. Most great players I have been around would just look at you and tell you that you have to practice more (or tell you to "Stay Down!"). On the other hand, someone that has been interested in stroke mechanics may be able to notice something that the player is actually doing wrong. The player will be able to try out some changes and get back to work practicing and maybe increase their shot making percentages. Now I don't believe this sort of analysis is rocket surgery
or anything but I do think people that pay close attention to mechanics are more likely to notice something than those who do not.Of course most people that play the game long enough figure out a thing or two by venturing near to Lou's "Rabbit Hole". We may not be good enough to go all the way in but we can at least see the rabbit going in and out
Bottom line is - secrets, tips, tricks or whatever you want to call them are cool and some off them can get you out of a jam from time to time but for me - it comes down to plain old execution. This is where the pros excel.
Age.
As we age, our old, bad habits that worked ok before start biting us in the ass. I didn't get good instruction when I was young enough to use it to be really good.
Now, I have gotten the instruction later in life and it has allowed me to, as I age, compete at a similar level to when I was younger and could get away with bad habits, if that makes sense? But I lost time, and that cannot be bought.
So, one of the advantages of getting instruction during the 10,000 hours of doing, is that you don't have to UNlearn bad habits later on.
Also, re instructors can't play: Who cares? If I get a good piece of advice, what difference does it make who gave it to me, if it works for me? How can I know if it works for me? I try it as part of those 10,000 hours.
Jeff Livingston
As we age, our old, bad habits that worked ok before start biting us in the ass. I didn't get good instruction when I was young enough to use it to be really good.
Now, I have gotten the instruction later in life and it has allowed me to, as I age, compete at a similar level to when I was younger and could get away with bad habits, if that makes sense? But I lost time, and that cannot be bought.
So, one of the advantages of getting instruction during the 10,000 hours of doing, is that you don't have to UNlearn bad habits later on.
Also, re instructors can't play: Who cares? If I get a good piece of advice, what difference does it make who gave it to me, if it works for me? How can I know if it works for me? I try it as part of those 10,000 hours.
Jeff Livingston
A great player can make a difficult shot and get position on the next ball 9 times out of ten.
A lesser player can make the same difficult shot and get position on the next ball 7 times out of ten.
It's not specific knowledge that make great players better than most. It is the ability to execute! This great player may or may not be able to help the lesser player increase their ability to make this shot. Most great players I have been around would just look at you and tell you that you have to practice more (or tell you to "Stay Down!"). On the other hand, someone that has been interested in stroke mechanics may be able to notice something that the player is actually doing wrong. The player will be able to try out some changes and get back to work practicing and maybe increase their shot making percentages. Now I don't believe this sort of analysis is rocket surgery
Of course most people that play the game long enough figure out a thing or two by venturing near to Lou's "Rabbit Hole". We may not be good enough to go all the way in but we can at least see the rabbit going in and out
Bottom line is - secrets, tips, tricks or whatever you want to call them are cool and some off them can get you out of a jam from time to time but for me - it comes down to plain old execution. This is where the pros excel.
The thing is that there are reasons the great players can execute. It is what they have picked up along the way -- in learning to execute well and consistently -- that is of potential value to the potential student. The mediocre player cannot pass that along because he has not traveled the path.
Lou Figueroa
wax on
wax off
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Fair enough. And hopefully the instructor does not teach you more bad habits that you will also have to unlearn. Not all instruction is created equal
Lou Figueroa
Fair enough. And hopefully the instructor does not teach you more bad habits that you will also have to unlearn. Not all instruction is created equal
Lou Figueroa
If he does, he does. But at least, by my being engaged in the process, I've learned something...that's better than before the instruction...for me.
My goal is happy pool, or better stated, having pool add to my overall level of happiness. So, I integrate into each shot that goal. With that goal, I use dozens of inputs, pool and non-pool alike, to help me reach it. Being a consious being, able to understand reality, I take the responsibity to do the work and cull the crap and use the good....for MY goals.
That's my code. I cracked that long ago and it has served me well.
Jeff Livingston
Sounds like a cop out.
And yet they'll argue with a fence post. Instructors for money have to generate customers and alot it is bs. Gadgets and $25 chalk won't get you there either.
Exactly.
"Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand things that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison
And, Lou has a great point about his own excellent communication skills -- the ability for the *student* to drag out of the instructor that which he/she wants or needs to know. If you're going to be a lemming, be passive, say nothing, and let the instructor direct you off a cliff, you now have to resort to plan B. That is, it is *you* -- not the instructor -- to now recognize that the cliff is there. If you don't see the cliff and tumble over it, it is you, not the instructor, that has to dust himself after the fall, and then climb back up that cliff.The ONLY way you can do this, is the 10,000 hours (or whatever extra amount of hours are needed to "recover"). I don't like to use the term HAMB, because, to me, it implies aimlessly hitting a million balls (although that it itself has its own purposes -- like embedding successes and failures into the subconscious). I think a mixture of structured practice, and HAMB, is a perfect compliment. Human nature is to *want* to succeed, so while you're HAMB'ing, if you notice that you're doing something wrong, you know in your mind you need to work on that -- and that's where the structured practice comes in. Any semi-intelligent person knows this, bows his/her head, and bellies up to the structured practice bar to work those things out. At the same time, HAMB'ing exercises the "fun" aspect of the game -- why you play the game in the first place. After you've structured-practiced, you then HAMB to let your hair down and have fun. Or vice-versa, depending on what your particular needs/motivation is.
Point is, not everything is black and white. I don't believe that old notion that you shouldn't step up to the table unless you have a particular goal in mind, "every single time" you step up to the table. That's horse puckey. Even unstructured practice -- HAMB'ing -- has its purpose, both instructional and recreational. The recreational part is obvious; the instructional part is what many of the analytical types reading and posting here do not realize -- and that's what the Thomas Edison quote above alludes to. Embedding the successes and failures in your subconscious has a lot more value than you realize.
-Sean
Long practice sessions aren't for everyone. Takes a certain person to want to really put in the hours. As mentioned earlier, it takes time to build up to being able to put in a long session before hitting the wall.
Any session must be structured to get the most benefit. And this is the hard part. Honestly looking at yourself and seeing what your strengths are and your weakness and then prioritize them and go to work to make your weakness into your strength.
There is direct learning and indirect learning. Direct learning is the doing, seeking answers to your questions from any source. Indirect learning is the watching, observing without thought about like, dislike or judgement of what is before you.
One of my weaknesses is banks. I'm lucky in that there are 3 cushions players where I play. I end all my practice sessions watching the 3 cushion players use the banks and ball speed. Indirect learning.
At the start of my next practice session, I start with banks shots. Using from what I observed watching the 3 cushion players. I'm getting the hang of mutli rails banks.
The point is you must have both, direct and indirect learning. Notice I use learning and not teaching. There is a method of teaching used in AiKiDo where there are no words used in the teaching only doing. The idea is that the learning is all up to the student to figure things out and not the master telling them.
The Hamb concept is that training and practice in pool or anything is never ending. That no matter what your skill level is, one must still train and practice. This level of passion is what makes the difference in players.
Any session must be structured to get the most benefit. And this is the hard part. Honestly looking at yourself and seeing what your strengths are and your weakness and then prioritize them and go to work to make your weakness into your strength.
There is direct learning and indirect learning. Direct learning is the doing, seeking answers to your questions from any source. Indirect learning is the watching, observing without thought about like, dislike or judgement of what is before you.
One of my weaknesses is banks. I'm lucky in that there are 3 cushions players where I play. I end all my practice sessions watching the 3 cushion players use the banks and ball speed. Indirect learning.
At the start of my next practice session, I start with banks shots. Using from what I observed watching the 3 cushion players. I'm getting the hang of mutli rails banks.
The point is you must have both, direct and indirect learning. Notice I use learning and not teaching. There is a method of teaching used in AiKiDo where there are no words used in the teaching only doing. The idea is that the learning is all up to the student to figure things out and not the master telling them.
The Hamb concept is that training and practice in pool or anything is never ending. That no matter what your skill level is, one must still train and practice. This level of passion is what makes the difference in players.
I deleted a paragraph about that as I didn't want to complicate the post.
lol...I knew this response would come...thanks...now I can re-do that thought....
Every thought and action I create is made to increase or at least maintain my happiness. So, as each of us must do if concerned with happiness, I must do for myself that job. So, that means I have to think before acting.
Yeah, I could commit hours of practice, and years more a competition to get maybe 5% better, assuming my physical body can keep up. That is a tradeoff. But that price is too high for the meager results I can get at this age and physical condition.
Another tradeoff I can make is to keep learning, adding to my shot recipe, and using it to, not only win, but to make me happier, even as my physical body deteriorates.
Which one is right FOR ME? I'm sure it's not the same as for you, Mitchxout, or for any other player in the whole world.
I'm always amazed, though, how often my goal of happiness seems to piss off others and have them use THEIR goals for dissing MY goals. To each his own. I like chocolate, but I don't tell vanilla lovers that they're copping out because their goal isn't more chocolate.
Jeff Livingston
Lou...Let's see...Randyg has finished 2nd in a national tournament. I have finished 3rd in a national tournament. Is that good enough to "pass your test" of being able to play...or do you consider that just mediocre? Maybe you and I should schedule a TAR match. Of course you'd have to give me huge weight, since you allegedly play so much better than I do. 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com