Are my patterns off or is it just me?

rickdf

rickdf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am having trouble closing out games and was hoping for some insight from the instructors here.
After breaking, provided I make a ball, I can usually pocket the majority of my object balls but I tend to get stuck on the 8 ball or my last two object balls before the 8.
Do you think it’s more probable that my patterns are off and need work or can it be more of a mental block that I have to get past?
I apologize if it’s a rather vague question considering there aren’t a lot of details.
It’s just really annoying that I can’t make one more ball after making 7 in a row. Then comes the point where you have to sit in your chair and watch your opponent clean up the table you just cleared for him.
I understand the rule “don’t pocket 7 if you can’t pocket 8” but if things are rolling smoothly during the first 7 balls it’s hard to put the brakes on.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Rick
 
pick your pocket for the 8 and the "key" ball to get on the 8. before you shoot the first shot.

never start a run without having an idea how you want it to end.
 
What softshot is talking about is called "8-ball liability", and it's what ALL expert 8ball players do. It means that after the break, you check and see if there is a pocket and a path for the game ball...or do you have to create a path? The "link" ball (he calls it key ball) is what you use to set up on the game ball. Hopefully your link ball is a stop shot (which is difficult to screw up), leaving you straight in on the game ball. Both of these shots are determined prior to beginning your table run.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

softshot said:
pick your pocket for the 8 and the "key" ball to get on the 8. before you shoot the first shot.

never start a run without having an idea how you want it to end.
Click to expand...
 
rickdf said:
I am having trouble closing out games and was hoping for some insight from the instructors here.
After breaking, provided I make a ball, I can usually pocket the majority of my object balls but I tend to get stuck on the 8 ball or my last two object balls before the 8.
Do you think it’s more probable that my patterns are off and need work or can it be more of a mental block that I have to get past?
I apologize if it’s a rather vague question considering there aren’t a lot of details.
It’s just really annoying that I can’t make one more ball after making 7 in a row. Then comes the point where you have to sit in your chair and watch your opponent clean up the table you just cleared for him.
I understand the rule “don’t pocket 7 if you can’t pocket 8” but if things are rolling smoothly during the first 7 balls it’s hard to put the brakes on.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Rick
Click to expand...

No offense, Rick, but I think you answered your own question in your last line. Yes, it is hard to put the brakes on but when you are out of line and at risk of missing, you have to put the brakes on. It happens to everybody and although players hate to admit it, it happens more than we want.

Everyone gets out of line, and when that happens, you have to play defensively. If you could run out every rack from the beginning you would be better than the pros.

Keep working on your position play, and when necessary, play smart. It's part of the game.
 
Last edited:
8-Ball

Thanks for the help guys.

So, the link ball isn't necessarily the closest ball to the 8 ball but the ball that will most likely allow a stop shot on the 8 and your pattern should go back from the link ball?

Is there a "point of no return"? What I mean is, if I pocket 6 of my 7 object balls but get out of line on the last ball is it still smart to play a safety? If I have one ball on the table and my opponent has all 7 of their's open throughout the table, how likely is it that I will play a good safety and leave them without a shot and not have a safety shot played back in return? I understand it has a lot to do with ability and I should also say I almost always play on bar boxes for what it's worth.
I also understand it has a lot to do with the layout of the table. If the opponent has clusters then it would be easier to play safe, but probably not if the table is wide open with no clusters.
I probably just answered my own question again. :grin:




Rick
 
There is not really a "point of no return" although it may seem like this when the table is wide open and you can't pocket the last ball or two...

You can always create a problem ball for your opponent. One of my 8-ball league teammates does this if he gets bad after attempting a run, he will shoot the 8-ball and try to cluster it up with his opponents balls and just give them ball in hand. Or tie your ball up with the 8-ball.

If your opponent has to break the 8-ball out of a cluster, anything can happen.
 
rickdy...I like the way Larry Schwartz describes how to play 8-ball (Larry is a friend of mine, a pro player, and a teacher, with a book about how to play 8 ball). He talks about how, in 8 ball, your side, stripes or solids, are like soldiers in a battle. As you pocket more balls, you have fewer soldiers to "protect" whether you win or lose. Running down to the last couple of balls, and missing, is a receipe for disaster, because you have no balls left to play safe behind. When I used to teach college pool classes, I had a whole week's classes dedicated to "The last two...disaster or success"! Many good 8 ball players will look for early and easy opportunities to play safe. Remember, the goal in playing a safety is not to prevent your opponent from having a good shot. The goal of a safety is to result in achieving ball in hand for you. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

rickdf said:
Thanks for the help guys.

So, the link ball isn't necessarily the closest ball to the 8 ball but the ball that will most likely allow a stop shot on the 8 and your pattern should go back from the link ball?

Is there a "point of no return"? What I mean is, if I pocket 6 of my 7 object balls but get out of line on the last ball is it still smart to play a safety? If I have one ball on the table and my opponent has all 7 of their's open throughout the table, how likely is it that I will play a good safety and leave them without a shot and not have a safety shot played back in return? I understand it has a lot to do with ability and I should also say I almost always play on bar boxes for what it's worth.
I also understand it has a lot to do with the layout of the table. If the opponent has clusters then it would be easier to play safe, but probably not if the table is wide open with no clusters.
I probably just answered my own question again. :grin:




Rick
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Remember, the goal in playing a safety is not to prevent your opponent from having a good shot. The goal of a safety is to result in achieving ball in hand for you. :D
Click to expand...

IMO the goal of a safety in 8ball is to solve the problem that's keeping you from running out without selling out in the process..

I don't care if I leave him a shot as long as I don't leave him a runnout
 
my thoughts

Personally I see a lot of players take all the easy balls first and leave the "tougher" balls for last. Breakouts are better to attempt early, so u have lots of other balls to leave yourself for. Plus u have a lot of soldiers to defend if u miss as mentioned before. My team also has a rule about not leaving yourself less then 2 balls plus the 8 unless you are pretty sure u can runout. It makes it easy for your opponent to safety u. Safetys don't have to get you ball in hand.....just need to make for a really tough out for your opponent.
 
I'm really glad I searched for this before starting my own thread. I've been having the same problem as the OP.

So now I'm thinking back through the last couple weeks and realizing that I've been playing to run out instead of playing to win.

Yay for search functions, and yay for good advice on the forums. :D
 
It is always ok to play a safety, but.... the more balls you have on the table the easier it is to play a good safety. If you only have one ball and you opponent has six or seven you are in trouble. If you have not left a good shot the other person is likely to have a good safety to play. He could hide the cue ball more easily and then end up with ball in hand.
This is called last ball hell. Read the 8 ball bible. The author says it you can't run out then don't try to. Make a shot to claim solids or stripes. Then look for a good safety to prevent you opponent from running out.
 
5aheadforpinks said:
There is not really a "point of no return" although it may seem like this when the table is wide open and you can't pocket the last ball or two...

You can always create a problem ball for your opponent. One of my 8-ball league teammates does this if he gets bad after attempting a run, he will shoot the 8-ball and try to cluster it up with his opponents balls and just give them ball in hand. Or tie your ball up with the 8-ball.

If your opponent has to break the 8-ball out of a cluster, anything can happen.
Click to expand...

Point of no return
I believe (and teach) that there is a point of no return. It's the point in the game where you still have a problem ball and your opponent does not. I think it usually appears around the middle of your run. You must make the decision whether to go or duck. Also, if you have a runable table when you step up to shoot, it's wise to plan your entire run backwards. Your run should ideally become easier as it goes along, with as many of your selections offering defense as well as offense should you miss. From my point of view there are three critical shots in 8-ball: the first shot after the break (when you select the group of balls), the "point of no return" shot (where you must sometimes choose between offense and defense), and of course, the final shot on the 8.
 
Donny Lutz said:
Point of no return
I believe (and teach) that there is a point of no return. It's the point in the game where you still have a problem ball and your opponent does not. I think it usually appears around the middle of your run. You must make the decision whether to go or duck. Also, if you have a runable table when you step up to shoot, it's wise to plan your entire run backwards. Your run should ideally become easier as it goes along, with as many of your selections offering defense as well as offense should you miss. From my point of view there are three critical shots in 8-ball: the first shot after the break (when you select the group of balls), the "point of no return" shot (where you must sometimes choose between offense and defense), and of course, the final shot on the 8.
Click to expand...

Great advice....

Let me add some experiences I have had..... While you need to plan the run, you also need the right mental place to be in. What I mean is that you have to be confident in your shooting ability, Only part of that is practice. I play APA as a 6 and there are a few people on other teams that absolutely hate to play me. It is mental. There is a 7 that I have beaten every time I have played him. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I am better, he has the full ability to beat me.

He is so intimidated and so concerned with winning that he plays me very carefully. So carefully that his game does not flow... He plays so carefully and deliberately that he misses shots and misses shape.

I play for fun ... with out thinking. If I make a few hard shots, it makes me know that I am "on" and I go with it. I take hard and risky snots and make them.

Also there are those matches that I lose to a 5 because I can't make simple shot.

It's all in your head..... got things on your mind???? You shoot bad. Intimidated??? you shoot bad. Worried about winning??? you shoot bad.

play .... have more fun.... your ability will show through

Kim
 
8 Ball

8 Ball is one of the hardest games that most people play. You have decisions to make throughout the entire rack. A few pointers:

Always have a plan and you may have to adjust it throughout the rack.
Never run out your easy balls and leave a problem ball.
Always take care of the problem balls as early as possible.
Plan your position wisely, play into the zone from the right angles.
Don't be scared to play safety (and practice safeties often so you can rely on them).
As you get closer to the 8 don't change your routine, don't start thinking about the win. Stay focused and play confidently.
 
Patterns

Neil said:
As a rule of thumb, I play that once the 4th ball is off the table, you are pretty much committed to the run out. Once you only have 3 balls left, it becomes rather easy for your opponent to safe you if he still has all or most of his balls on the table.
Click to expand...

Neil, when, if ever do you deviate from this rule? Would you choose a fairly easy safety over a slightly harder shot earlier in the game?

It seems that most people do play with a "point of no return". The challenge for me is identifying that moment. I think I'll start using the 4th ball as Neil suggested.



Rick
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top