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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
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All you smart engineering and software design guys out there -

How hard would it be to design a device that could sort out the position of the balls on the table, collect the data, and send it off to a similar device on the remote end (via internet connection). The remote end would display the location of the balls on the table.

This device would be used for people to compete against each other from 2 different locations. I'm envisioning a device that would be connected up near your table lights and project the location of the balls on the cloth. You would then have to place the balls by hand, which would be a pain, but I don't think it would be too bad for 9 or 10 ball.

Could someone hurry up and create this device so that I could have everything I've ever wanted in life? I could play some 9 ball against some good players without actually having to invite them into my basement :)

We could have 1 mean AZ tournament then.


***I give away to many of my ideas for free***
 
Damn, beat me to the post...

I was just going to ask why we need to track positions of balls if we are just projecting onto the table... just project the whole image... you could even watch your opponent shoot (somewhat) to see fouls and whatnot in real-time.


Yes, engineer. Yes, about 12 seconds as well. =D
 
DoubleD said:
You mean like a webcam and a computer hooked up to a pico-projector that is scaled/focused on your table?

I'll sell you one for $28,000. Pretty cheap, right?

Yes, engineer. Yes, twelve seconds for me to figure that out.
Click to expand...

Shoot - all I have available right now is $25,000. Maybe next time.
 
Jasen said:
Damn, beat me to the post...

I was just going to ask why we need to track positions of balls if we are just projecting onto the table... just project the whole image... you could even watch your opponent shoot (somewhat) to see fouls and whatnot in real-time.


Yes, engineer. Yes, about 12 seconds as well. =D
Click to expand...

I see. So if we...scratch that - I mean if YOU could just project the other players table onto my table we would be in business.

I might need to add the caveat that this needs to be done with your typical household items.
 
BasementDweller said:
I see. So if we...scratch that - I mean if YOU could just project the other players table onto my table we would be in business.

I might need to add the caveat that this needs to be done with your typical household items.
Click to expand...


I'm serious, I'll set you up for $24k.
 
BasementDweller said:
All you smart engineering and software design guys out there -

How hard would it be to design a device that could sort out the position of the balls on the table, collect the data, and send it off to a similar device on the remote end (via internet connection). The remote end would display the location of the balls on the table.
Click to expand...
This isn't easy to do well, but the technology exists. For examples, see the "robots playing pool" videos here:

Also see "interactive projection pool table" on the same page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Neil said:
Thanks for the chuckle!:D Don't worry, it happens to all of us at one time or another. You get what you think is a great idea, and get lost in the focusing on one tree of the idea, and can't see the whole forest right around you. What you are actually describing is called a camera. Video recorder, DVD, webcam, ect. You also could use the wei table diagrams on here.
Click to expand...

In fairness to myself - I was aware that you could do something similiar with camaras and such. I would just think it would be too cumbersome to accomplish the fine details of placing the balls in the right spot. Especially after a safety. You would have to continually ask your opponent if the ball was completely snookered, or just 80 percent blocked, etc.

What I was thinking about was a device that would just tell you exactly were to place the balls on the cloth possibly using a basic laser that marked the spot. Being able to project the distant end's table onto your own would be really cool but obviously quite expensive.


dr_dave said:
This isn't easy to do well, but the technology exists. For examples, see the "robots playing pool" videos here:

Also see "interactive projection pool table" on the same page.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

Those robots are amazing!!! I'm guessing we are still at least a decade away from having the robots when the U.S. Open. What's the over/under on that?
 
BasementDweller said:
How hard would it be to design a device that could sort out the position of the balls on the table, collect the data, and send it off to a similar device on the remote end (via internet connection). The remote end would display the location of the balls on the table.

This device would be used for people to compete against each other from 2 different locations. I'm envisioning a device that would be connected up near your table lights and project the location of the balls on the cloth. You would then have to place the balls by hand, which would be a pain, but I don't think it would be too bad for 9 or 10 ball.

Could someone hurry up and create this device so that I could have everything I've ever wanted in life? I could play some 9 ball against some good players without actually having to invite them into my basement
Click to expand...

Not hard at all. Take one computer ($400) at each end with internet connection ($50/month), and one projection tv ($700) mounted in the ceiling pointing down at the table, and one PC camera ($90) to pick up thee table position on your end.

Just hook it up as if you were video confrencing but use the pool table as the to and from devices.
 
Think "Rupees".

मैं यह 99339.9 रुपयों के लिए करूँगा.
 
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Have very special balls made. They will contain an antenna and transmitter set, and a piezoelectric sensor.

A radio transmitter in the room will send signals to the balls. Each ball will receive the signal and emit its' own frequency. The signals will then be received by several antennas at which point the location of the balls can be calculated based on the disparity in arrival time to the antennas.

The piezoelectric sensors will come into play when a ball is struck. They will allow you to gain information as to whether a close hit was actually a foul or not, allowing you to keep your distant opponent from cheating.

A scanning galvanometer head and a laser diode will take the location information of the balls and project a point on the table where each should be placed.

This is going to cost you...
 
Only $25k?

Part of your solution is available from Hawk-Eye Innovations, a company that provides a slick system for televised snooker tournaments (and other sports events):

http://www.hawkeyeinnovations.co.uk/?page_id=1074&PHPSESSID=45e507b889f96bdbbc993aeb333564d0

No price listed. Ouch.

Consider the $30 investment in a decent webcam a reasonable expenditure for a proof-of-concept test:

1. If you can find an opponent whose enthusiasm matches yours, and if your opponent gripes and moans for weeks about the accuracy of ball placement, you might think of investing more time and money.

2. If you can't find an opponent who wants to play 9-ball via webcam more than once, you've still got yourself a nice webcam, and you've saved yourself nearly $25k. That'd buy you a lot of plane tickets for face-to-face matches.

Even if you match ball positions, you won't match table conditions on two different tables to satisfy everyone.

If you offered someone $25/hour to do place balls, use calipers and rulers and whatnot to check placement, etc., I'm sure you'd have no end of applicants, and if you had $25k set aside you'd be all set for quite a few matches. For that hourly wage you'd also have someone to rack, fetch drinks, praise every shot you make, trash talk your opponent, walk your dog, etc.

An engineer might prefer to get paid $25/hour (or $20/hour + free beer) to handle the ball placement and trash talking rather than charge you $75/hour or more to develop a system that you'd ultimately find dissatisfying. Geez, if you lived close by I might be at your door tomorrow with my own webcam, calipers, rulers, bottle opener, and employment contract.

As it happens, I'm an engineer in the relevant field: machine vision. We build systems for automated visual inspection, and your project is similar to what we'd call an "optical gauging" (non-contact measurement) application. I'm a snooker/pool player, too, so I have some idea how accurate a system would have to be to satisfy a discriminating player.

I'd want a system that's accurate enough to discriminate between a ball that has a clear path to the opposite corner pocket and a ball that can't be made because it'll clip 1/64" of an obstructing ball (unless I shoot a partial masse, which I'd rather avoid on a snooker table). Unfortunately the problem is not as simple as calculating what resolution you'd want to cover a 9' table at 1/64" per pixel.

Developing an accurate optical gauging (measurement) system is significantly harder than anyone who hasn't done it several times would expect. I might have to charge you $75 (or $70 + beer) just to spend an hour writing down how many nasty problems there are to solve in this seemingly straightforward problem. I wouldn't commit to a project like this for as little as $25k.

But hey, a hungry engineering grad student who has never had a full-time job might work on your project. Did you check out the video Dr. Dave posted of the pool-playing robot? There were several grad students keeping that thing running. That may be what you need: a young, bright kid who is enthusiastic and has experience in solving a related problem.
 
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One important thing to remember here is the length of time it would take to play one game. Even placing the balls quickly (likely meaning decreased discrimination in location) a game involving several safeties and/or missed shots could take quite some time to play.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but I am an impatient person at the table. If I'm playing someone who is taking 40 seconds a shot I'm going to get really bored and pissed off. If I were playing a long distance pool match with a consistently slow speed, I would be contemplating shooting myself in the face after several games.
 
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