gripping that cue

GoldenFlash

GoldenFlash

Banned
I have found that if I start missing balls, all I have to is tighten up the right hand (the one holding the back end of the cue) and the balls start sailing straight as a bullet.
No probs loading white ball up with english, draw, or follow...with that tight right hand grip. And still get a full follow through as well.
I know it flies in the face of what everyone teaches but its such an easy "fix" for missing easy shots....or hard ones too.
Could it be that the "loose grip" is causing the cue to drift off line and not deliver the tip where I am aiming for it to go?
I like the results, I just dont understand the "why" of it at all?
Any answers out there??
Ty
 
I'm very interested in what the instructors have to say on this. I've noticed something similar lately with my stroke...when I seem to be dogging easy shots I tighten up a little on my grip hand and start drilling the back to the pocket immediately. I hypothesize that there may be some lateral (side to side) drift in my stroke that may be caused by a little too much "flop" in my wrist, but I'm not sure. Tightening the grip just a little bit may be straightening that out? Another possibility is "snatching" the cue (tightening/rolling the wrist) where your finish position isn't really in line with your stroke line through the cue ball, which pulls your tip to the right an instant before contact...some people focus on pointing their thumb and forefinger at the ground to try and force themselves to NOT snatch/twist the cue; maybe slightly tightening the grip does the same thing?

I don't know, but a slightly tighter grip seems to really put me back in stroke. I'm sure there's something in my stroke I'm not seeing, and I probably need to figure out WHY my stroke is drifting instead of compensating with grip.
 
I believe that some amount of tension in the forearm can help eliminate some of that side to side action that can happen when the wrist rolls.

If you want to see if you are rolling your wrist get some of those colored paper adhesive dots that they sell at Staples, and put one on your ferrule.

Set up your shots, and position the dot facing up (12 oclock position). Look to see if the dot is in the same orientation at the end of the stroke. If it has moved you are rolling your wrist.



West Point 1987 said:
I'm very interested in what the instructors have to say on this. I've noticed something similar lately with my stroke...when I seem to be dogging easy shots I tighten up a little on my grip hand and start drilling the back to the pocket immediately. I hypothesize that there may be some lateral (side to side) drift in my stroke that may be caused by a little too much "flop" in my wrist, but I'm not sure. Tightening the grip just a little bit may be straightening that out? Another possibility is "snatching" the cue (tightening/rolling the wrist) where your finish position isn't really in line with your stroke line through the cue ball, which pulls your tip to the right an instant before contact...some people focus on pointing their thumb and forefinger at the ground to try and force themselves to NOT snatch/twist the cue; maybe slightly tightening the grip does the same thing?

I don't know, but a slightly tighter grip seems to really put me back in stroke. I'm sure there's something in my stroke I'm not seeing, and I probably need to figure out WHY my stroke is drifting instead of compensating with grip.
Click to expand...
 
GoldenFlash said:
I have found that if I start missing balls, all I have to is tighten up the right hand (the one holding the back end of the cue) and the balls start sailing straight as a bullet.
No probs loading white ball up with english, draw, or follow...with that tight right hand grip. And still get a full follow through as well.
I know it flies in the face of what everyone teaches but its such an easy "fix" for missing easy shots....or hard ones too.
Could it be that the "loose grip" is causing the cue to drift off line and not deliver the tip where I am aiming for it to go?
I like the results, I just dont understand the "why" of it at all?
Any answers out there??
Ty
Click to expand...



Sounds like you found your perfect GRIP.
randyg
 
GoldenFlash said:
I have found that if I start missing balls, all I have to is tighten up the right hand (the one holding the back end of the cue) and the balls start sailing straight as a bullet.
No probs loading white ball up with english, draw, or follow...with that tight right hand grip. And still get a full follow through as well.
I know it flies in the face of what everyone teaches but its such an easy "fix" for missing easy shots....or hard ones too.
Could it be that the "loose grip" is causing the cue to drift off line and not deliver the tip where I am aiming for it to go?
I like the results, I just dont understand the "why" of it at all?
Any answers out there??
Ty
Click to expand...

In pool, you need a lot of weapons in your arsenal and that includes different grip tensions to accomplish different things. Loose grips on certain shots have real benefits. Tight grips on certain shots also have their benefits. You have to know how to mix it up and pull out the right weapon when needed.

If you're having trouble with your loose grip it may be because you are trying to prevent the cue stick from sliding in your hand at impact. It's ok to let it slide. In fact, when you're using a loose grip, it's nearly impossible not to let it slide a bit just as the tip hits the ball. If you try to prevent that, you will grab the cue. Depending on at what point and how much you grab, you can twist the cue.

When it comes to letting the cue slide on certain shots (no, that's not a slip stroke), Nick Varner comes to my mind. Efren as well. They are both experts at allowing the cue to release when needed. So, if you're holding it loose, be careful of grabbing. Also, keep in mind --- in general, the farther down in your fingers you hold the cue, the more impact the grab has on your stroke.

Another thing to consider: If you grab the cue on impact, what was the purpose of your loose grip in the first place other than for a sudden surge in acceleration? Wouldn't your grip on impact then be tight?
 
Last edited:
Grip strength really has nothing to do with making balls or missing balls. The cue doesn't know how tight you're holding it as you send it down a given vector. Use the grip strength that gives you the best chance of sending the cue straight. If that means you have to choke the hell out of it, then let it be so.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Grip strength really has nothing to do with making balls or missing balls. The cue doesn't know how tight you're holding it as you send it down a given vector. Use the grip strength that gives you the best chance of sending the cue straight. If that means you have to choke the hell out of it, then let it be so.
Click to expand...

The minute any cue stick of mine starts knowing things, I'm throwing it out the window.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Grip strength really has nothing to do with making balls or missing balls. The cue doesn't know how tight you're holding it as you send it down a given vector. Use the grip strength that gives you the best chance of sending the cue straight. If that means you have to choke the hell out of it, then let it be so.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that observation. I never thought of it that way.
I always "heard" that the grip had to be loose for "desired action" on the cue ball, but I see now that is mostly BS.
I was watching some old videos of Jim Rempe and he seemed to be holding that stick pretty tight.
Ty for taking time to post.
 
GoldenFlash said:
Thanks for that observation. I never thought of it that way.
I always "heard" that the grip had to be loose for "desired action" on the cue ball, but I see now that is mostly BS.
I was watching some old videos of Jim Rempe and he seemed to be holding that stick pretty tight.
Ty for taking time to post.
Click to expand...

Seriously, please consider spending some time experimenting with different grip tensions before deciding to hold the cue tightly for every shot. You could be doing yourself a great disservice. The cue stick may not know what your grip tension is but the cue ball definitely does.
 
FranCrimi said:
Seriously, please consider spending some time experimenting with different grip tensions before deciding to hold the cue tightly for every shot. You could be doing yourself a great disservice. The cue stick may not know what your grip tension is but the cue ball definitely does.
Click to expand...

What I was thinking. Too much tension in your arm can hurt the timing of your stroke and your ability to generate cue speed. The players who generate the most amount of cue speed with minimal effort generally have a relaxed grip/arm.
 
GoldenFlash said:
Thanks for that observation. I never thought of it that way.
I always "heard" that the grip had to be loose for "desired action" on the cue ball, but I see now that is mostly BS.
I was watching some old videos of Jim Rempe and he seemed to be holding that stick pretty tight.
Ty for taking time to post.
Click to expand...



Goldenflash: I think I will quote the great Willie Mosconi here:

"A death grip on the butt end of the cue tends to deaden the action of the cue ball."

It'd not BS by any means. The key word is Consistency. That's what a tight grip takes away.

Like Fran suggested, try of few different grips. Think CRADLE over GRIP.

randyg
 
Grip tension can make it easier or harder to get cue action, but not because of the grip tension itself.

Looser grip tensions tend to lend to having a more fluid wrist action which results in faster acceleration through the (up to) CB in a shorter distance (fast twitch muscles). Conversely, having a tighter grip leads to fixed wrists having little to no movement which results in all acceleration coming from the bicep (slower muscle).

Therefore, I think grip tension leads people to believe that it prevents CB action --- but it's really the lack of acceleration through the CB with the same level of effort that's the root cause.
 
Spidey,

I usually agree with your posts, however I respectfully disagree with you relating this to fast or slow twitch muscle fibers. The forearm is mostly slow twitch fibers, and these are the ones that control your fingers and wrist.

I think it is more accurate to say that by cradling the cue, to allow it to pivot inside your hand, allows you to build speed upon speed. Most of the speed comes from the bicept, then as the cue approches the ball, the wrist snap (for lack of a better descriptions) provides extra momemtum.

Here is a site which talks about these fast and slow twitch fibers.

BTW I was a Biology Major on college, taught Biology for 15 years, and I was a competive powerlifter. I was really into all of this crap back then.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/hst-07.htm




SpiderWebComm said:
Grip tension can make it easier or harder to get cue action, but not because of the grip tension itself.

Looser grip tensions tend to lend to having a more fluid wrist action which results in faster acceleration through the (up to) CB in a shorter distance (fast twitch muscles). Conversely, having a tighter grip leads to fixed wrists having little to no movement which results in all acceleration coming from the bicep (slower muscle).

Therefore, I think grip tension leads people to believe that it prevents CB action --- but it's really the lack of acceleration through the CB with the same level of effort that's the root cause.
Click to expand...
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Spidey,

I usually agree with your posts, however I respectfully disagree with you relating this to fast or slow twitch muscle fibers. The forearm is mostly slow twitch fibers, and these are the ones that control your fingers and wrist.

I think it is more accurate to say that by cradling the cue, to allow it to pivot inside your hand, allows you to build speed upon speed. Most of the speed comes from the bicept, then as the cue approches the ball, the wrist snap (for lack of a better descriptions) provides extra momemtum.

Here is a site which talks about these fast and slow twitch fibers.

BTW I was a Biology Major on college, taught Biology for 15 years, and I was a competive powerlifter. I was really into all of this crap back then.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/hst-07.htm
Click to expand...

I like how you say "build speed upon speed." That's a great way to put it. The only thing I'm questioning is "how much." I think it nets a LOT more acceleration/speed versus a locked wrist.

Think of a whip. If I used gauze to wrap your wrist so there was no movement, how hard would it be to crack the whip?
 
I did not use a locked wrist in my description. I described the wrist motion as wrist snap. This combined with the bicep motion and a proper cradle allow the cue to accelerate through contact. The three working together build upon each other, when the timing is right Because of the way I am built I don't have much wrist motion in my stoke so I rely more on bicep speed and a loose cradle. We have all seen players that have lots of wrist motion in there stoke. Most of the Pinoy's come to mind. How much is enough....in my mind if you can move the cueball around the table with ease, whatever wrist motion you have is enough.

I am thinking this would be an excellent project for high speed filming. Has Dr. Dave ever filmed the back hand during the stoke?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
Last edited:
Great postings by several great instructors- pleasure to read it!

lg
Ingo
 
if the final forward delivery when using i light grip (cradle) is not smooth.......the cue will dance in the grip......kind of like the way you bob and weave in a car on a crappy bumpy road.

Its gotta be super smooth in the change of direction from pull back to forward delivery.

I liken it to this situation: Take your hand and open it flat PALM UP. Now put a baseball, or cueball or just a frigging rock in it....doesn't matter. Now without closing your hand (keep it flat open) reach back and now throw the object your "holding" (even tho you have no grip on it).

Now you can throw it quite well and straight without holding the "ball" but your motion has to be smooth and controlled. If say it were a baseball then you could tighten up the grip and actually hold it like your supposed to and rear back in whatever fashion you like and be able to throw it forwards no matter how jerky your rear reaching motion is.

This is similar to what goes on with the cue stick.

Just look at the good golfers they bring it back, and SET with an extremely smooth forward motion that BUILDS in acceleration to get to the speed of delivery that they want.

The game is not pull back and at the onset of the forward delivery you want your cue traveling at 45.6 MPH.......if 45.6 MPH is your intended speed then the delivery starts at 0 then 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,12,15,20MPH and so on and so forth building UP to that desired speed upon contact. ITS A BELL CURVE for any of us nerds out there.

The cause is UNSMOOTHNESS........the fix is SMOOTHNESS. When you dance with a girl dont step on her dam feet and jerk her around.

I may need to explain this better...........let me know if i need to do better at explaining myself, as some of you know I can always do better especially if asked :)

regards,
Grey Ghost
 
greyghost said:
if the final forward delivery when using i light grip (cradle) is not smooth.......the cue will dance in the grip......kind of like the way you bob and weave in a car on a crappy bumpy road.

Its gotta be super smooth in the change of direction from pull back to forward delivery.

I liken it to this situation: Take your hand and open it flat PALM UP. Now put a baseball, or cueball or just a frigging rock in it....doesn't matter. Now without closing your hand (keep it flat open) reach back and now throw the object your "holding" (even tho you have no grip on it).

Now you can throw it quite well and straight without holding the "ball" but your motion has to be smooth and controlled. If say it were a baseball then you could tighten up the grip and actually hold it like your supposed to and rear back in whatever fashion you like and be able to throw it forwards no matter how jerky your rear reaching motion is.

This is similar to what goes on with the cue stick.

Just look at the good golfers they bring it back, and SET with an extremely smooth forward motion that BUILDS in acceleration to get to the speed of delivery that they want.

The game is not pull back and at the onset of the forward delivery you want your cue traveling at 45.6 MPH.......if 45.6 MPH is your intended speed then the delivery starts at 0 then 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,12,15,20MPH and so on and so forth building UP to that desired speed upon contact. ITS A BELL CURVE for any of us nerds out there.

The cause is UNSMOOTHNESS........the fix is SMOOTHNESS. When you dance with a girl dont step on her dam feet and jerk her around.

I may need to explain this better...........let me know if i need to do better at explaining myself, as some of you know I can always do better especially if asked :)

regards,
Grey Ghost
Click to expand...

Man, you have a very good way of explaining the stroking action of a cue stick.

I went to my table and practiced your suggestion. COOL.

I'll do this before picking up a stick to practice from now on.

Thanks man.

John
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top