Wrapless cues definitely slip less, in all conditions. The more you sweat, the stickier they get. I can never understand why linen wraps got popular. They are so slippery, it seems counterproductive to put one on a cue.
Cue wrap..or no wrap?
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
Correct Ted. Thats why you seldom see them used by the great players from overseas. With linen you have to squeeze the cue more to get a good grip, which kills action & accuracy. With wrapless you can hold lightly with just a thumb & finger and be able to accelerate your stoke. Watch how loose Efren & Busta hold the cue...really just a thumb & index finger. This too allows the cue to stroke straighter & not be "steered" by a tight grip. Wrapless is the hot ticket for max performance...leather is ok too...I'll never again shoot with a linen wrapped cue.
Possible origin of the idea of wrapping a cue's gripping area with a linen thread
Ted:
I think the reason why wrapping a cue with linen thread came into vogue in the early years of cue building, was the [then] school-of-thought that "a cue is built much the same way as a javelin, and a javelin always has a linen or cord wrap in the gripping area." I don't think much thought beyond that was given. Of course, with a javelin, the *reason* for having a linen or cord wrap was precisely for the natural property of the material being slippery. That was the whole idea of the grip area -- for the hand to grip onto that area, and then when in the release phase of the throw, the javelin easily slid out of the hand with no binding to the skin whatsoever. Obviously, there are stark differences between throwing a javelin and delivery of a cue to a cue ball. One requires that the throwing implement actually leave the hand with no binding or friction, while the other requires that the hand maintain contact with the throwing implement at the time of delivery. I think the original cue builders who had this possible mindset of similarities between a javelin and a cue were a little misled, but that's ancient history now.
But back then, pool players adapted -- they developed a style that adapted naturally to the slipperiness of the linen wrap, the slip stroke (a la Ralph Greenleaf, Willie Mosconi, Cicero Murphy, Cowboy Jimmy Moore, etc.). It's a bit different from throwing a javelin, of course, as the "slip" in a slip stroke takes place before delivery of the implement (vs. the implement slipping completely out of the hand as in a javelin). But the idea is the same -- the grip material never sticks to the skin, and easily "gives way" (the "bond" between the material and the skin is easily broken) when gripping pressure is released.
In pool, the slip stroke was initially successful, because it's very comfortable -- one isn't swinging the whole "heft" of the cue, and takes less exertion (over a period of time) than maintaining a sure grip throughout the swing. However, it's also less accurate. During the time of the slip and regrip, you're in essence losing positive control of the cue for a split second, and this process can induce quite a bit of yaw. Just watch any matches of Cowboy Jimmy Moore from the overhead camera angle, and you can see the "wobble" in the cue during the slip and regrip phase. With today's more accurate cushions (i.e. less mushy than the old days -- can't send a ball sloppily down a rail and expect to pocket it), deeper shelves to the pockets, and less-forgiving pocket cuts, the tolerance for cue delivery error is slimmer. You don't see any of the top pros today using a slip stroke, and that's the reason.
So this is where a gripping material that offers positive traction with even a light touch -- such as an animal hide (e.g. leather, stack leather, Stingray), cork, or even no wrap at all (wrapless) -- is more conducive to accuracy than a material that one has to concentrate on maintaining a positive grip on.
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
Ted:
I think the reason why wrapping a cue with linen thread came into vogue in the early years of cue building, was the [then] school-of-thought that "a cue is built much the same way as a javelin, and a javelin always has a linen or cord wrap in the gripping area." I don't think much thought beyond that was given. Of course, with a javelin, the *reason* for having a linen or cord wrap was precisely for the natural property of the material being slippery. That was the whole idea of the grip area -- for the hand to grip onto that area, and then when in the release phase of the throw, the javelin easily slid out of the hand with no binding to the skin whatsoever. Obviously, there are stark differences between throwing a javelin and delivery of a cue to a cue ball. One requires that the throwing implement actually leave the hand with no binding or friction, while the other requires that the hand maintain contact with the throwing implement at the time of delivery. I think the original cue builders who had this possible mindset of similarities between a javelin and a cue were a little misled, but that's ancient history now.
But back then, pool players adapted -- they developed a style that adapted naturally to the slipperiness of the linen wrap, the slip stroke (a la Ralph Greenleaf, Willie Mosconi, Cicero Murphy, Cowboy Jimmy Moore, etc.). It's a bit different from throwing a javelin, of course, as the "slip" in a slip stroke takes place before delivery of the implement (vs. the implement slipping completely out of the hand as in a javelin). But the idea is the same -- the grip material never sticks to the skin, and easily "gives way" (the "bond" between the material and the skin is easily broken) when gripping pressure is released.
In pool, the slip stroke was initially successful, because it's very comfortable -- one isn't swinging the whole "heft" of the cue, and takes less exertion (over a period of time) than maintaining a sure grip throughout the swing. However, it's also less accurate. During the time of the slip and regrip, you're in essence losing positive control of the cue for a split second, and this process can induce quite a bit of yaw. Just watch any matches of Cowboy Jimmy Moore from the overhead camera angle, and you can see the "wobble" in the cue during the slip and regrip phase. With today's more accurate cushions (i.e. less mushy than the old days -- can't send a ball sloppily down a rail and expect to pocket it), deeper shelves to the pockets, and less-forgiving pocket cuts, the tolerance for cue delivery error is slimmer. You don't see any of the top pros today using a slip stroke, and that's the reason.
So this is where a gripping material that offers positive traction with even a light touch -- such as an animal hide (e.g. leather, stack leather, Stingray), cork, or even no wrap at all (wrapless) -- is more conducive to accuracy than a material that one has to concentrate on maintaining a positive grip on.
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
I always preferred the look and feel of Linen wrap.
Then I did my Titlist conversion and went with black leather to try it out, and I'm diggin' it. It has a nice smooth feel, yet has inherent 'grip' to it without being sticky. I like it so much I may get this on my next cue (that I don't make).
After the leather I have a Cortland wrap on the Davis blank cue I made and it looks absolutely killer on that traditional looking cue but the feel is not as good as the less expensive 'Irish Linen' I used on other cues. Yep. I prefer the 'cheap stuff' in a Linen wrap.
I don't think any 'tough' or textured leather would be a good choice for me. The baby-butt smooth calfskin is the hot ticket. But to be fair I have not tried lizard, croc or other exotic leathers first hand to say for certain.
Then I did my Titlist conversion and went with black leather to try it out, and I'm diggin' it. It has a nice smooth feel, yet has inherent 'grip' to it without being sticky. I like it so much I may get this on my next cue (that I don't make).
After the leather I have a Cortland wrap on the Davis blank cue I made and it looks absolutely killer on that traditional looking cue but the feel is not as good as the less expensive 'Irish Linen' I used on other cues. Yep. I prefer the 'cheap stuff' in a Linen wrap.
I don't think any 'tough' or textured leather would be a good choice for me. The baby-butt smooth calfskin is the hot ticket. But to be fair I have not tried lizard, croc or other exotic leathers first hand to say for certain.
Interesting statement about the Cortland and the "less expensive" linen. I've never {here it comes, Sean!} thought pressed linen to be slippery, when everyone else is claiming it is. Is the "less expensive" more slippery than the Cortland if they are both pressed? I'm really curious about this because I hear from so many people these days that irish linen is slippery.
Depends 100% on the style & manner in which either linen is pressed & finished. I can actually press, sand, seal, and polish to the point you'd swear solid black was leather. Its all in the finishing. With that said...I still much rather have the wrapless. Plus with the wrapless you get to add to the appearance of the cue with some stellar handle wood. :smile:
I agree -- the linen wraps can be modified to completely alter their characteristics, especially when sealing/covering them, as Meucci did/does. Interestingly, Meucci has an FAQ on this:
http://meuccicues.com/faq.html said:
But as Varney Cues alludes to, why? Obviously, a wrap takes away the ability for the cuemaker to really show his/her art in the handle area, and why would one want to install a wrap, only to take the wrap's native/inherent qualities away by covering/sealing it?
If you're going for a matte finish, or even a high gloss finish, I'd rather see what the cuemaker can do with pretty woods in the handle area, than the work of installing a wrap, only to "neuter" that wrap's characteristics.
-Sean
I finished the "readily available" linen and the Cortland in the same manner, with the same tools, and yes, there is a distinctive difference between them when finished the same way.
It was suggested that I could sand the Cortland and re-press it, but why?
I think some of the points touched on ring true: if I press/sand/seal (wax) the wrap, it will not absorb sweat any longer. Perhaps the Cortland is so prized because it has a better 'grip' and sweat absorbing properties than the current stuff that looks waxed just with pressing alone.
So, to one person, the new stuff might be better- it can be made dead even with the finish, and if done carefully, the transition from clear to cord is barely detectable. Or, in the case of the Cortland, it is a noticeable change, and perhaps a welcome one with its ability to absorb sweat and provide a bit of 'traction' for the hand.
Only you know what is better. I will say that the new linen vs no wrap is not much of a leap; whereas Cortland to no wrap certainly is. At this point in time, there probably are not a whole lot of players who have had the opportunity to play for a while with a Cortland wrap to feel the difference first hand, and to group Cortland with other 'linen' is not doing it justice.
It was suggested that I could sand the Cortland and re-press it, but why?
I think some of the points touched on ring true: if I press/sand/seal (wax) the wrap, it will not absorb sweat any longer. Perhaps the Cortland is so prized because it has a better 'grip' and sweat absorbing properties than the current stuff that looks waxed just with pressing alone.
So, to one person, the new stuff might be better- it can be made dead even with the finish, and if done carefully, the transition from clear to cord is barely detectable. Or, in the case of the Cortland, it is a noticeable change, and perhaps a welcome one with its ability to absorb sweat and provide a bit of 'traction' for the hand.
Only you know what is better. I will say that the new linen vs no wrap is not much of a leap; whereas Cortland to no wrap certainly is. At this point in time, there probably are not a whole lot of players who have had the opportunity to play for a while with a Cortland wrap to feel the difference first hand, and to group Cortland with other 'linen' is not doing it justice.
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Cue Guru:
Thank you for the great information. A question for you -- is Cortlandt wrap even available anymore? I know that the single factory that made Cortlandt wrap went out of business, and afterwards there were some spools still available via word-of-mouth, but hasn't that supply dried up by now?
-Sean <-- who, believe it or not, has a 27-year-old Mali (originally purchased new) with a Cortlandt wrap, but dares not use it
It's around.
Not easy to find and expensive when you do, but I wanted Cortland specifically for my John Davis blank and I'm glad I did it!
It certainly surprised a collector friend of mine who recognized it right away but had to ask because it just didn't make sense to have it on a brand new cue...
It's way cool, but I still prefer the smooth calf leather. That wrap changed my opinion of leather wraps.
Not easy to find and expensive when you do, but I wanted Cortland specifically for my John Davis blank and I'm glad I did it!
It certainly surprised a collector friend of mine who recognized it right away but had to ask because it just didn't make sense to have it on a brand new cue...
It's way cool, but I still prefer the smooth calf leather. That wrap changed my opinion of leather wraps.
Pangit
Banned
Ok... I'll play
Jerry -R- Wrapless 8 Pointer Full Splice........
That's pretty...
whatsupsport
See it, aim it, shoot it.
I prefer a wrap, no reason other than it just feels better to me.