Mosconi's run

C

California Kid

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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe that Mosconi traveled all over the country putting on exhibitions while representing Brunswick Billiards. Part of the show was a guaranteed run of at least 100 during the show. I have a problem seeing any of the players today matching that. You have to stay focused a long time, where a 9 ball game gives you a rest (of sorts) after every 9 ball run. I really think that Reyes is the greatest player ever but I don't think he could match the 526 number.
Anyone with me here?
 
California Kid said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe that Mosconi traveled all over the country putting on exhibitions while representing Brunswick Billiards. Part of the show was a guaranteed run of at least 100 during the show. I have a problem seeing any of the players today matching that. You have to stay focused a long time, where a 9 ball game gives you a rest (of sorts) after every 9 ball run. I really think that Reyes is the greatest player ever but I don't think he could match the 526 number.
Anyone with me here?
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I'm in total agreement with you. What Mosconi did was incredible. I saw him play after he retired and was just putting on exhibitions, and he was still the best 14.1 player I've ever seen...he ran balls so effortlessly...and he knew exactly where balls would end up after breaking open a cluster, it was second nature to him.

I'm not saying it's impossible to beat the 526 mark (he himself and a few others have done it) but it will be very difficult. The 526 was in an exhibition making it the highest ever run in such a manner. I think Ortmann or Hohmann would have the best chance among current players but I certainly wouldn't put money on it. I think if Greenleaf where alive today he might be able to do it. My reasoning for this is that Greenleaf rarely tried to go for a high run after an exhibition ended, he would run 125 and out and then stop a do some trickshots. One time the crowd really urged him to go on and he did and ran 276 balls on a 5 x 10 table! That was one time when urged to do so...who knows what his high run would have been if he continued all of those 125 ball runs...the same could be said for Mosconi, he rarely continued his runs in exhibitions.
 
Mole Eye said:
If they were playing on 5 inch pockets, I believe just about any top pro could guarantee a 100 ball run.
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No way. I remember when the top pros were in NYC for the 2000 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship, they all practiced for a few days at Amsterdam Billiards - the old Amsterdam on the west side which had notoriously big pockets - 5 1/8" corner pockets on all but one table and there were precious few 100 ball runs and the few they had were just over 100 - 103,109,117 etc.
 
forum jump ?

Are you saying the exhibition gig is an unequalled feat or the 526 ? See what the 14.1 forum says. You will likely be referred to older threads with the same subject matter.
 
California Kid said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe that Mosconi traveled all over the country putting on exhibitions while representing Brunswick Billiards. Part of the show was a guaranteed run of at least 100 during the show. I have a problem seeing any of the players today matching that. You have to stay focused a long time, where a 9 ball game gives you a rest (of sorts) after every 9 ball run. I really think that Reyes is the greatest player ever but I don't think he could match the 526 number.
Anyone with me here?
Click to expand...

The tables play more difficult today:D.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
Are you saying the exhibition gig is an unequalled feat or the 526 ? See what the 14.1 forum says. You will likely be referred to older threads with the same subject matter.
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526 is the highest ever run in an exhibition. All the other runs were in practice.

In fact after 526 I'm not even sure what the highest exhibition run is. Engert ran 491 but I don't know if he just started running it and after awhile people started gathering around as the run got higher.
 
Do I think Mosconi was the greatest pool player of all time no I don't but do I think he was the greatest 14.1 player ever without a doubt he was unbeatable in 2000 point challenge matches my grandfather who actually had a winning record against mosconi in 125 pt matches and clocked the days talent as well as anyone said that Willie may have been a miserable person but playing 14.1 continous he had no equal there was an article somewhere that during his brunswick contract he had 26 straight exhibitions that he ran 100+ balls.
 
Maybe the best?

500 plus balls on a 8' table with 5'' pockets, yea there are a few of Guys from the old days that did it. Mr. Evans and Mr. Murphy both did and theyalso gambled way better.
 
I have to think that Mosconi is up there somewhere scratching his head wondering why the high run is getting so much attention. He had all those championships, an excellent exhibition record and was a technical advisor for a popular movie. Yet the high run is talked about more than anything - and he pretty much did this as an afterthought.

Willie could just read the rack better than anyone. For him, running racks was just a matter of repeating a pattern he'd mastered. In exhibition, with a full rack in front of him and a good break ball he'd ask someone in the audience which ball they wanted to see as the next break ball. Sure enough, he'd work the rack all the way down to that called ball. I don't imagine many of today's pros could do this with any consistency. Mosconi could.
 
California Kid said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe that Mosconi traveled all over the country putting on exhibitions while representing Brunswick Billiards. Part of the show was a guaranteed run of at least 100 during the show. I have a problem seeing any of the players today matching that. You have to stay focused a long time, where a 9 ball game gives you a rest (of sorts) after every 9 ball run. I really think that Reyes is the greatest player ever but I don't think he could match the 526 number.
Anyone with me here?
Click to expand...

I don't think that Reyes would be the one to beat it. As good as he is, he seems to have 'hiccups' along the way even when he's playing lights out pool. He'll be running racks of 9 ball and even 14.1 and all of a sudden he'll just miss an easy shot or get out of position, it's like he loses focus when he's at the table for too long. I agree with the other poster who picked Hohmann, he probably has the best 14.1 game right now and has the best shot at beating the record but I wouldn't count on it happening any time soon, if ever.

Mosconi was truly the man. Lets see, he had:

A 526 ball run on an 8ft table. (exhibition)

A 589 and a 608 on a 9ft table (in practice) - the 589 was when he was old, in his late 50s.

A 365 ball run on a 5 x 10 table - maybe even more impressive than the 526.

More 100+ runs in competiton than anyone else ever by a wide margin.

Yeah, he was and still is the man.
 
It's very unlikely anyone can run 100 on some of the tables today. I would like to see the table he played because I'm sure some of the shots that shouldn't go a very small percentage of times, will probably go on a table any man can run 500 on. I can't say much about mosconi because I've never seen him play. I would have to ask some of the guys that knows about those guys (mosconi and greenleaf) to be able to say if they were ever in efren's class. Efren is the culmination of those guys, and all of philipines top players, then he came over here and learned everything from guys that can put together 11, while being down 10.

I heard smidt ran 400 balls, so it is just as good or better than a 500 on buckets. If efren want to play 14.1 he could easily run 400 or more.
 
8ballEinstein said:
I have to think that Mosconi is up there somewhere scratching his head wondering why the high run is getting so much attention. He had all those championships, an excellent exhibition record and was a technical advisor for a popular movie. Yet the high run is talked about more than anything - and he pretty much did this as an afterthought.

Willie could just read the rack better than anyone. For him, running racks was just a matter of repeating a pattern he'd mastered. In exhibition, with a full rack in front of him and a good break ball he'd ask someone in the audience which ball they wanted to see as the next break ball. Sure enough, he'd work the rack all the way down to that called ball. I don't imagine many of today's pros could do this with any consistency. Mosconi could.
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I agree. Yeah, his "526" has a lot of mystique to it but it's his "15" that will likely never be surpassed - in any game, not just straight pool.
 
California Kid said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe that Mosconi traveled all over the country putting on exhibitions while representing Brunswick Billiards. Part of the show was a guaranteed run of at least 100 during the show. I have a problem seeing any of the players today matching that. You have to stay focused a long time, where a 9 ball game gives you a rest (of sorts) after every 9 ball run. I really think that Reyes is the greatest player ever but I don't think he could match the 526 number.
Anyone with me here?
Click to expand...

Can someone show me that in writing? I saw Mosconi run 100+ many times but I also saw him not run 100 often getting out in a few innings during his exhibitions. I think the 100 guarantee has become sort of an urban legend. What would be the penalty if he didn't hit the 100, he had to brush the tables? For the room owner these were free, all you had to have was Brunswick tables and get on the list. Not to say they didn't have paid exhibitions who knows, but Mosconi was on salary.

I remember once a few old guys getting Mosconi on the side once and offering him a $1000. if he would come over to their club and do a little show, sign a few autographs get a dinner. Good money back then by the way for two hours work.. Mosconi said he wished he could but had to say no. I think Brunswick had him under their thumb pretty good.
 
easy-e said:
The tables play more difficult today:D.
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How do you know?

They played before air conditioning was even commonplace. I remember Gene Skinner telling me about playing with a wet towel around his neck at times. They also played on T-rail tables where no two rails may bounce the same and change in the course of the night. I know, in fact I own one and never play on it, I play on my Gold crown. They played under some of the most challenging conditions imaginable back then.

Earl would cut his wrists if he had to play in the 1930's and 40's under those conditions. Also, the pockets only got bigger in the second half of the 20th century when tables were being produced for the home market and they wanted to make the game a little more easy for the beginning players. I guess it all comes down to "You would have to have been there" but any idea that the game was somehow a piece of cake when Mosconi, Greenleaf, Ponzi and the rest played is a bit disingenuous.
 
C.Milian said:
It's very unlikely anyone can run 100 on some of the tables today. I would like to see the table he played because I'm sure some of the shots that shouldn't go a very small percentage of times, will probably go on a table any man can run 500 on. I can't say much about mosconi because I've never seen him play. I would have to ask some of the guys that knows about those guys (mosconi and greenleaf) to be able to say if they were ever in efren's class. Efren is the culmination of those guys, and all of philipines top players, then he came over here and learned everything from guys that can put together 11, while being down 10.

I heard smidt ran 400 balls, so it is just as good or better than a 500 on buckets. If efren want to play 14.1 he could easily run 400 or more.
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Schmidt's 400 was also on buckets.
 
California Kid said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe that Mosconi traveled all over the country putting on exhibitions while representing Brunswick Billiards. Part of the show was a guaranteed run of at least 100 during the show. I have a problem seeing any of the players today matching that. You have to stay focused a long time, where a 9 ball game gives you a rest (of sorts) after every 9 ball run. I really think that Reyes is the greatest player ever but I don't think he could match the 526 number.
Anyone with me here?
Click to expand...

The Book, Willie's Game does a great job of telling Willie's Life Story.
 
macguy said:
Can someone show me that in writing? I saw Mosconi run 100+ many times but I also saw him not run 100 often getting out in a few innings during his exhibitions. I think the 100 guarantee has become sort of an urban legend. What would be the penalty if he didn't hit the 100, he had to brush the tables? For the room owner these were free, all you had to have was Brunswick tables and get on the list. Not to say they didn't have paid exhibitions who knows, but Mosconi was on salary.

I remember once a few old guys getting Mosconi on the side once and offering him a $1000. if he would come over to their club and do a little show, sign a few autographs get a dinner. Good money back then by the way for two hours work.. Mosconi said he wished he could but had to say no. I think Brunswick had him under their thumb pretty good.
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I don't think there was any guarantee. He just did it so often that it seemed like he could guarantee it.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I don't think there was any guarantee. He just did it so often that it seemed like he could guarantee it.

Lou Figueroa
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It was ridiculous, He would play in the afternoon and run100+ then do it again a few hours later in the evening. A lot of times if he ended the game on a pretty good run he would continue to the 100 mark if he could quitting at that point with the audience counting down the last few balls.
 
Modern day equipment has made every game and sport easier to play, so I have a hard time believing that todays equipment is harder to play on.

Plus can you imagine going to a different exhibit every day and having to get used to a different table every day. Where they all brunswick tables?

Also, I read that he averaged a 100+ ball run every four games I believe. I don't think he had a 100+ ball run every day.

And I find playing straight pool on an eight foot table to actually be more difficult than playing on a nine foot table. The balls seem to cluster a lot more and block your shots more often on the eight footer, but with his pin point position play that might not have been an issue for him like it would be for 99.99999% of the pool players out there.
 
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