Who Made This GORGEOUS Old Sharp Splice Cue?

Chris

Totally high quality. Its for sure not a production cue, and not an Adam, but it could be an early (pre-Adam) Helmstetter, it sure has his design aesthetic.

Thanks

Kevin

Ernie cut the inlay channels in the 60s with an exacto knife and his fit with complete precision. He told me when he got it going, he cut cut the channel for a french diamond in less than a minute. Bing, bang boom.


I don't think it's a Spain forearm because where the wrap ends the gap between the veneers are pretty wide. Spains are usually touching or near touching. Look at the Balabushka/Spain photos in the Blue Book and you'll see what I mean. Maybe send a pic to Joel Hercek to see if he recognizes it joel@hercek.com
 
Chris

Right you are:

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Thanks

Kevin

I'm back to Helmstetter pre-Viking.
 
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Just because you have the best ingredients, doesn't mean you are a gourmet chef.

Points might be the greatest points ever made. Doesn't stop the fact that a hack did the rings on the butt.:D
 
off to Auction

Thanks for all the input. It seems nobody recognizes who made this old beauty so I guess I'll throw in on eBay as an Old Spliced Cue and see if anybody out there knows what it is or wants to put a value over $9.99 on it.

Stay tuned,

Thanks again

Kevin
 
Thanks for all the input. It seems nobody recognizes who made this old beauty so I guess I'll throw in on eBay as an Old Spliced Cue and see if anybody out there knows what it is or wants to put a value over $9.99 on it.

Stay tuned,

Thanks again

Kevin
Kevin
Most importantly, how does it play?
 
I like that cue.

Nice cue. I really dig unidentified orphans, especially the ones the "experts" argue about. Being unidentified is still a little frustrating though. Interesting mix of qualities, no doubt. The fact that the rings don't line up only says to me that it is the earlier work of somebody good at their trade. It adds character to the cue in my view. Could be any of those makers mentioned, or somebody else.

I am not one of those that needs a name attached to a cue to make it a great cue. I have personally shot with several cues that had great names attached to them that actually did not hold up on the table compared to much "lesser" cues. Others shot with those same cues and giggled like school girls over how marvelous they shot....they just couldn't think past the name I think. Those cues had extremely high values.

I did follow the thread and had a close look at the pics. I got nowhere that anybody else hadn't already gone. I am no expert though, so that isn't saying much.

I like that cue. I feel certain it is made of unobtanium by Mr George Richard Burton Balahelmstain himself, in his basement, using only a wood lathe and an old Schrade pocket knife.
 
Nice cue. I really dig unidentified orphans, especially the ones the "experts" argue about. Being unidentified is still a little frustrating though. Interesting mix of qualities, no doubt. The fact that the rings don't line up only says to me that it is the earlier work of somebody good at their trade. It adds character to the cue in my view. Could be any of those makers mentioned, or somebody else.

I am not one of those that needs a name attached to a cue to make it a great cue. I have personally shot with several cues that had great names attached to them that actually did not hold up on the table compared to much "lesser" cues. Others shot with those same cues and giggled like school girls over how marvelous they shot....they just couldn't think past the name I think. Those cues had extremely high values.

I did follow the thread and had a close look at the pics. I got nowhere that anybody else hadn't already gone. I am no expert though, so that isn't saying much.

I like that cue. I feel certain it is made of unobtanium by Mr George Richard Burton Balahelmstain himself, in his basement, using only a wood lathe and an old Schrade pocket knife.

I guess while we are at it, it could be an early attempt by Dan Janes.

The veneers in the butt match the veneers in the arm perfectly so I doubt that the maker bought the arm as a blank, I'm pretty sure he made the splice and, for a veneered splice made in the 60s-70s, this is pretty skillfully executed. Myself, I love the stacked veneers in the butt.

Ernie Gutierrez liked this cue very much (and why not as it is really quite similar to one of his old designs) and pointed out that the maker used the same width veneers in the arm (where they were presented to the lathe at an angle) as in the butt (where they met the lathe straight up and down), resulting is slightly different veneer widths top and bottom. That's the type of thing a guy like Ernie notices from across the room (and of course he's got a huge machine dedicated to shaving veneer wood to within 1/1000 of an inch tolerance to avoid this "problem").

Thanks

Kevin
 
The rings above and below the butt inlays do not line up.

If i were buying a cue, this type of gross negligence to attention to detail, would immediately place the cue in the "hack cuemaker/production cue" category.

No cuemaker worth anything would let something like that leave the shop unless they just sucked.

Tascarella (sorry everyone, i just couldnt resist) :)
 

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Tascarella (sorry everyone, i just couldnt resist) :)

Obviously, not all "rings" are created equal.:D

No one is stopping anyone from buying shoddy craftsmanship if they love it so much.

Maybe you should make Kvinbrwr an offer?:D

If a cuemaker can't line up some butt rings, i don't care how awesome they might become and how prestigious their work might be, they were not at the top of their craft when the cue was made and were still in their HACK (learning) stage.

Could the OP cue be an early example of some early masters work? Sure. But they were either desperate for cash, or just a retard for letting it leave the shop that way.

And if it was a custom cue from some future master, it probably took someone pointing it out to them and being like..."$200 bucks? For THAT? Seriously??? What is up with those rings?!?! They look terrible. No way dude. I'll give you $20 bucks for it", before they were thinking to themselves...oO(maybe i should make an effort to align the rings)
 
Actually, I would make an offer.....but I'm pretty broke at the moment.

Retard?

Interesting.

I think I would love to see some of the cues you have passed over. You do realize that the "decorative" designs of the masters often originated as ways of covering up flaws...right? Rings.....wraps.....inlays....yup.... :smile:

If you are a fan of trailer queens....perhaps you watch "American Chopper"? Then I can understand the approach to cues. I don't build cues, but I do build and ride real custom choppers. Personally I wouldn't be caught dead on one of those girly bikes. I take the same perspective with cues.

What you might call a flaw I might call character.

Retard eh? Nice..... :rolleyes:
 
You do realize that the "decorative" designs of the masters often originated as ways of covering up flaws...right?

Um. So the rings that don't line up was deliberate, to cover up some other flaw?
A flaw that would surely be noticed if it weren't for those 2 rings being offset from each other as opposed to being aligned properly?
Damn, that's just pure genius on the cuemakers part, saving the cue like that by altering the rings.:rolleyes:

Never understand why some people can't bring themselves to call it a mistake.
Guy screwed up the rings plain and simple.
Don't care how awesome of a cuemaker they might be, i won't sugarcoat and glorify an error.
 
I never said it wasn't a mistake, and never said it covered up a flaw in this case.

I don't sugarcoat anything either.

I say again, with even more confidence, I like the cue. In fact, if some people with prima donna attitudes don't like it, then I like it even more. :thumbup:

And what's even better is I can say that without calling any of the cue makers a "retard".

For example, as I hear it the first ten Barry Szamboti cues, made in apprenticeship, were kept "in the family" because they weren't "good enough". How do you know this cue isn't a cue that was made under such circumstances? Maybe it was never "released" or sold at all. Someday when Barry is gone and a grandchild needs some cash maybe they will sell an "imperfect" Barry S cue. Or maybe, knock on burled wood, one could be stolen and make it into circulation decades later.

We don't know where this cue came from. It is a mystery. It has some features that indicate great quality and a couple minor ones that don't. That adds up to character to me.

So it's a mistake? I can bring myself to say anything. I have no reservations. I didn't get where I am in life by being timid. The fact is that you don't know that it is a mistake. If the maker never intended to line up the rings then it simply isn't a mistake, just a design point that is not in keeping with what you think is ideal.

The point is that I don't care if it is a mistake and it actually makes this cue more interesting for me.
 
Alright guys. Lets not make too big of a deal out of it.

Its decent older cue, nothing amazing and I don't think it's intended to be represented as such. Pretty clearly not one of the "greats" but nothing wrong with that either.

I don't think it's very old based on the lack of visual movement of the parts. 70's at the earlist IMO , maybe even later. It's had repair work done and most likely had a refin or 2 based on the thickness of the finish. Probably pantagraphed due to all the rounded pockets. Lack of attention to detail can be seperated from quality. The misaligned ring work, the fact the diamonds were not left sharp and were rounded to fit and a few other minor details mostly likely indicate inexperience or the fact it was not intended to be high profile and likely just a player. Doen't mean it's not quality construction and/or a piece of junk. It's a nice older 'handmade' cue. Nothing more, nothing less. Like it or not.

I think it's neat and probably fetch more than just a couple bucks.
 
The fact is that you don't know that it is a mistake. If the maker never intended to line up the rings then it simply isn't a mistake, just a design point that is not in keeping with what you think is ideal.

The point is that I don't care if it is a mistake and it actually makes this cue more interesting for me.

Isn't a mistake?
Come on man. Seriously?
Haha.

Be interesting to find out how many top shelf cuemakers today, would have tossed this into the reject pile of failed cue attempts or simply cut it in half if they made it.

Isn't a mistake. Hahaha.
Funny stuff.
 
Isn't a mistake?
Come on man. Seriously?
Haha.

Be interesting to find out how many top shelf cuemakers today, would have tossed this into the reject pile of failed cue attempts or simply cut it in half if they made it.

Isn't a mistake. Hahaha.
Funny stuff.

The butt cap had been replaced. For all anyone knows, the butt broke loose at the metal ring and the the person who did the repair didn't re-align the rings and was in fact.....the "hack". ;)
 
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