Who Made This GORGEOUS Old Sharp Splice Cue?

kvinbrwr

Skee Ball Monster Playa
Gold Member
All I know (besides what I can see) is that this cue has to have been made before 1976. The points are dead sharp and even, the veneers are perfect, the inlays well placed and centered. The wrap is Cortland Penn. Ernie Gutierrez guessed that it could be a Burton Spain arm, but also suggested Helmstetter made some great splices in his early American days. I love love the stacked veneers in the butt. I think the diamonds are ivory and they seem to be pantograph cut.

Who knows and what do you know?

Thanks

Kevin

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Just a little more information - I examined the cue and it has a Delrin buttcap that may have been replaced, and a 5/16X14 stainless joint and the joint screw has the Balabushka "dimple".

I ruled out the typical Adam, Helmstetter stuff for a variety of reasons. It's too early to be a Black or a Schon. It certainly does have Helmstetter styling similarities. It's too nice to be an import cue from that early, plus they mostly used 5/16X18.

Then I began thinking it might be an early Joss. Dan Janes was experimenting with the pantograph but they still used short spliced forearms. I also wondered if the cue might be a Verl Horn.

Also.. the cue had an early Fellini case similar to the type Joss gave out with some of their cues.

Any additional information would be most welcome.

Chris

Ps. That hair in the bottom pic is gross.
 
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Just a little more information - I examined the cue and it has a Delrin buttcap that may have been replaced, and a 5/16X14 stainless joint and the joint screw has the Balabushka "dimple".

I ruled out the typical Adam, Helmstetter stuff for a variety of reasons. It's too early to be a Black or a Schon. It certainly does have Helmstetter styling similarities. It's too nice to be an import cue from that early, plus they mostly used 5/16X18.

Then I began thinking it might be an early Joss. Dan Janes was experimenting with the pantograph but they still used short spliced forearms. I also wondered if the cue might be a Verl Horn.

Also.. the cue had an early Fellini case similar to the type Joss gave out with some of their cues.

Any additional information would be most welcome.

Chris

Ps. That hair in the bottom pic is gross.

That's orange. Please see my avatar.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Nice Cue

Dont know who made it, but I know who wants to but it. If you decide to sell it, I want first dibs!
 
Here's an excerpt from an AZ thread in 2009 which is an excerpt from The BlueBook. You Helmstetter guys and Ernie Gutierrez might both be right:

Maker of pool cues from 1970 to present in Japan. Distributed in the United States by Competition Sports of Farmingdale, New York.
In 1960 Richard Helmstetter made his first cue in a night school woodworking class. Shortly afterwards, Richard heard about a cuemaker named Rollie Welch, and soon he was on a bus to North Milwaukee. On Friday nights after his classes were over, Richard made shafts for Rollie in exchange for the use of Rollie´s lathe. Later in the weekend Richard could work on his own cues; he bought Brunswick one-piece cues, cut them in half, and put in a joint. It was at this time that Richard met Gordon Hart, who wanted to set up a cue shop in the basement of his new pool room in Stoughton, Wisconsin. A deal was struck: if Richard helped Gordon set up the shop, Richard would have a "permanent" part-time job there while he finished his degree at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

In 1965, Richard took an armload of cues to the annual Johnson City tournament and sold every one of them. It was in Johnson City that he heard about a fellow in Chicago building quality blanks. Soon Gordon and Richard were buying blanks from this man, Burton Spain, to use in their cues. After graduating from college in 1966, Richard moved to Washington, D.C. to start Helmstetter Cues. (Gordon Hart went on to establish Viking Cues.) His namesake company established Richard´s reputation as an accomplished craftsman. A year later Richard was offered the opportunity to set up a cuemaking facility for the National Tournament Chalk Company in Chicago. With the combined talents of Richard and other soon-to-be-important cuemakers, National was making high quality cues.

In 1968, Richard met Dave Forman, who was importing two lines of cues which he manufactured in Japan. Dave enlisted Richard to improve and expand his Japanese cuemaking facility. In October of 1969, Richard moved to Japan to begin this project. Richard bought new machinery for the facility and had kilns custom made for drying wood. Two years later, Adam Custom Cues was born, named after Dave Forman´s first grandson. The twelve models available in 1970 were entirely handmade. By 1973, 60 models were available. Now that Adam-Japan produces thousands of cues a year, the cues are built using state-of-the-art machinery. Adam is now using sixth generation equipment. Some early prototype cues are still handmade.

I think I'll eMail some pics to Richard Black and see if he has an opinion.

Thanks

Kevin
 
I'd ask Joel H. or Paul Rubino

If it has Spain anything these 2 are definitly the best to ask!!! Mark
 
The rings above and below the butt inlays do not line up.

If i were buying a cue, this type of gross negligence to attention to detail, would immediately place the cue in the "hack cuemaker/production cue" category.

No cuemaker worth anything would let something like that leave the shop unless they just sucked.
 
Oh these cue hacks make me so mad too. I mean look at this inlay! The guy bores a hole in the butt, drops the diamond in there and then fills that up with epoxy?

Hack

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Clearly hack work on that last one with the ebony butt...
Better send it my way!:smile:
 
Clearly hack work on that last one with the ebony butt...
Better send it my way!:smile:

If the same hack made both the spice and the butt on the first cue then maybe he was only 1/2 a hack because those points are sharp and pretty even. Maybe Ernie was right and the arm is a Spain (or was Spain a hack too?).

The guy that hacked up those inlays on the 2nd cue makes me too embarrassed to send that cue to you.

So, no.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Oh these cue hacks make me so mad too. I mean look at this inlay! The guy bores a hole in the butt, drops the diamond in there and then fills that up with epoxy?

Hack

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Let's cut George a little slack. How did he know there would be a macro digital camera in the year 2011? When those are new, flush and shiny you can't really see the round hole at all.

Chris

Ps. I examined the unknown cue and it is very high quality. It's not an Adam - they used 5/16 X 18 joints plus all their stuff lines up.
 
Let's cut George a little slack. How did he know there would be a macro digital camera in the year 2011? When those are new, flush and shiny you can't really see the round hole at all.

Chris

Ps. I examined the unknown cue and it is very high quality. It's not an Adam - they used 5/16 X 18 joints.

Chris

Totally high quality. Its for sure not a production cue, and not an Adam, but it could be an early (pre-Adam) Helmstetter, it sure has his design aesthetic.

Thanks

Kevin

Ernie cut the inlay channels in the 60s with an exacto knife and his fit with complete precision. He told me when he got it going, he cut cut the channel for a french diamond in less than a minute. Bing, bang boom.
 
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