Cuetec and the pros that use them
- Thread starter Mole Eye
- Start date
You'll take Shane for what? Is our bet back on?
Do you have that cue? You are making an assumption about a cue you don't possess, have never seen, and certainly have no clue how it plays.
Really?
Your point was that the cue does not make a difference. I say it does, professionals say it does.
And you are speaking for the professionals here? And for the cue makers? So the secret to pool equipment in your opinion is the tip. No other consideration as long as it's about 58" long and tapered from about 1.25" on the big end down to about 12-13mm on the small end? Put a "good" tip on and it's ready to be used to win a world championship?
So we have a bet? This is easy enough to prove. It's not about being a dick it's about being real.
It's really simple, all cues do not "play" the same. If they did then Predator would not exist.
Predator proved conclusively that deflection can be reduced. Whether you agree with them that this means better performance or not it proves with 100% certainty that cues have DIFFERENT performance characteristics from cue to cue. When they are made using repeatable construction techniques then they will be similar from cue to cue.
It's not just the tip. It's the tip, the ferrule, the shaft, the balance, the weight, the tone....all these things affect how the cue "plays".
Now, maybe you know more than I do. I am not a cue maker. Nor am I a professional player. I am a B player who occasionally has a trance to take me to a low A player. But I have spent countless hours in cue maker's shops, countless hours in the cue factory testing differently constructed cues. Have had many many discussions with professional players about cues and how the cue affects their performance.
You are trying to take this into a different direction. It's hard to buy a "bad" cue these days. Even the lower end cues like Sterling are good enough to play great pool with. BUT that does not mean that they feel good enough for a pro to be confident with.
And this is MY point when it comes to Cuetec and any other cue that a pro chooses to play with. The company making the cue HAS to build it to a standard that is acceptable to the professional to bet their career on. No professional is going to stick with a cue that they feel so badly about when they play that they exit tournaments quickly.
You think it makes no difference but you are wrong. Now, how much real difference can be debated and even measured as Predator has done. But the fact is that there ARE variables that affect the real OBJECTIVE performance of the cue. And there are variables that affect the SUBJECTIVE performance of the cue in the player's experience.
And perception being reality you don't want YOUR player, the one you have the farm invested into, playing with a cue that they don't feel confident in.
It's interesting how often Efren's "cheap" cue comes up in discussions of this sort. Has anyone shot a few balls with it? Nobody ever mentions how warped that cue was, makes me doubt people "know" much of anything about that cue. Anyone ever considered that at low two-digit dollars it may have been among the finest and most expensive he could get in the Philippines at the time?
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
TheThaiger
Banned
Indeed. He played with it because it hit nice, irrespective of price.
I just browsed this thread since I haven't in a few days. John, if I counted correctly, I think you're in $5000 worth of action in like 5 other threads. I'd start agreeing with people even if you don't --- it's cheaper that way!!!
cuetec r-360
Here's what I know about this. I own a R-360 (advertised to be almost no deflection, endorsed by SVB, Allison Fisher, etc.)
I was with Danny Basavich 2 weeks ago and he needed to borrow a cue. He was looking for a Predator, and before we found one for him to use, he tried out my R-360. He was very surprised that he could tell almost no difference with it's performance VS. Predator.
After we located a Predator, he did a test, and still could tell almost no difference between the two. He said the Cuetec played very well.
Allen
Here's what I know about this. I own a R-360 (advertised to be almost no deflection, endorsed by SVB, Allison Fisher, etc.)
I was with Danny Basavich 2 weeks ago and he needed to borrow a cue. He was looking for a Predator, and before we found one for him to use, he tried out my R-360. He was very surprised that he could tell almost no difference with it's performance VS. Predator.
After we located a Predator, he did a test, and still could tell almost no difference between the two. He said the Cuetec played very well.
Allen
A cuetec is like a hyundai, not anywhere as bad as they used to be. Too many people remember cuetec for their graphite line. To me the 360 hits ok but its still a $200 cue, doesnt hit any better than a $200 joss or viking. If anything, I like the idea of looking like a fish with a pink cuetec, sorta like sporting a red vest with apa patches.
Give the pro-player a week to get used to the cue and I don't have a problem with your proposal (and an incentive to win). {Which would include the ability to remove or add weight bolts, and change the tip.}
Why should they need a week? What reason do you have for a professional player needing a week to "get used to the cue" if the cue doesn't matter?
I believe his point was that beyond a 'base' set of requirements, that a professional level player will be able to win with just about any cue. As long as the 'arrow' is straight, consistent, etc, the Indian will have no problem shooting it.
However, no one has ever argued that there isn't benefit for a player to get used to a cue. Having 1 player play with the cue he's used for the last 10 years vs someone getting a cue that day, there is a distinct advantage to the first one. It doesn't matter if the 10 year cue is a cuetec and the 1 day cue is a Southwest, shooting with something you're not used to is difficult.
Yes I understand that. But the very fact that there is a base means that the "arrow" matters.
I promise you that I could put ten shafts on the table that are all identical in taper, ferrule and tip and yet all ten play noticeably different, from horrible to very good.
I'll agree completely, I think the main point here is that the difference between a $20 cue and a $200 cue is breathtakingly bigger than a $200 cue and a $2000 cue.
Now, I'm not very good at all, and play with a $200 Lucasi cue (with an OB-2) so take this for what it is worth. I have hit with a Babushka, Schon, and a few 1 of 1s and though they had a perhaps better 'feel', I doubt that anything could be done with them that my Lucasi can't, and I am positive I wouldn't be a better player with any of them over the one I have.
When I first got a cheap table I bought a $30 graphite cue from K-mart to play with. To be honest, I can make the cue ball do anything with that cue that I can with any other cue I have used. I think the shaft on the K-mart cue is too whippy, and the graphite sometimes gets a little sticky, but as far as pure performance goes, I can't tell a difference between this cue and any other I have hit that has a standard shaft. Sure the feel is different, but what happens to the cue ball is the same; and quite honestly, the feel is not all that bad.
You are getting into a somewhat different category when you talk LD shafts. I believe that any half way decent cue with a decent tip and a standard shaft can control the CB as well as any custom cue out there that also has a standard shaft, or any high priced production cue with a standard shaft.
I definitely think that tip size, taper, and joint type will effect how the cue feels when playing, but not so much how the CB will react (except tip size to decrease deflection) when playing. I do believe that these can create a stiffer or softer hit also that needs to be adjusted for, but that is due to the type of what you use, not necessarily the expense or quality.
I have always said it is much more the indian than the arrow, however, that seems to be changing with the continued growth in popularity and technology surrounding LD shafts. In this case, even a cheaper shaft such as the players or cuetec shafts can out perform the best standard custom shafts as deflection/squirt is considered. With that being said, there does seem to be a significant difference in the quality of play regarding squirt control between the different LD shafts available, and an even larger difference in feel with these shafts than standard shafts. Pro level players still seem to be able to run out just as well with standard shafts as LD shafts, so maybe this affects us more than them, but we may see that change as more and more pro players switch to LD shafts. It would be interesting to compare run out stats before LD shafts were here. That would be difficult to do given the difference in table pocket size and overall size. None the less, the advent of these shafts is changing the moniker of the indian and the arrow for players trying to learn to deal with deflection.
I`m very proud that i can shoot with my special Cuetec.
It plays so easy with a unknown ferule and a Moori tip.
It plays so easy with a unknown ferule and a Moori tip.
And I said you bring the tip and a player and I will bring them a cue to play with and you can bet the farm.
Agree with you here 100%.
Shafts are very important to feel comfortable. Some guys are kind of resistant if it s about type of cues. But there is for sure a big difference between some shafts/cues etc.
I know some great players who are sponsored- and some just have *modified* stuff. You can t see it...but they are for sure