Let's talk about some precision machining...

Ok Guys, the joke is over.

I couldn't sleep the other night when I first posted this so I thought I would have a little fun with you guys. I'm glad it sparked a healthy debate and gave us all a laugh.
I hope it also made some of you reflect on the art that goes into cuemaking and an insight to some of the new and exciting tools that are becoming available. Per usual, Paul is at the forefront of the cue building technology.

For those of you who guessed it was a lazer.... you were correct! Although it was NOT the lazer cutting the Ivory that made the bottom black. After the lazer made the "cut" Paul used a black ink to highlight the design. The detail in this piece is nothing short of amazing. Yes Vasilios, it IS that small. You are correct that the whole piece is about 3" but the details are very, very tiny.

In rsponse to scdiveteam's post....

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply and maybe I misunderstood the post but I wouldn't say Paul is laughing all the way to the bank. There are a few other cuemakers I feel that statement would apply better to. There is one member here who thinks he's god's gift to the planet and can chage $1200+ for a plain jane wrapless cue because of "the beauty of the wood". If ther was every a time to call BS, it would be on this. That being said, I have never owned one of his cues mostly because I think he's grossly overpriced. I'm sure they play good but so do a lot of other cuemaker's cues and they are not this expenisve. Some of you should consider giving Paul a call before you place the order for your next cue. I think you'll find that his prices are very realistic.

Honestly I know some of you here think I spend a good amount of time "marketing" Paul's cues. And although I wouldn't use that term, you are correct to some extent. I do spend some time showing off Paul's work and with what I feel is a very good reason. Well, two reasons actually. First, Paul and I are friends. And I'm not referring to a customer/cuemaker type of friend. Yes, it began that way but it has crossed that boundry a while ago. I had a cookout this past summer and Paul and Ellen were invited and they drove an hour and 15 minutes to get here. Last weekend I was invited to a very personal event for their son Austin, and I attended. I challenge anyone to admit they wouldn't go the extra mile to help "market" a friend's product. Especially one that they personally use and believe is one of the best made.
That brings me to the second reason why I "market" Paul's cues. I believe they are one of the best values in the market today. Paul's creative talent is almost without equal and his execution is top notch. Forget about the fact that he has the best quality wood in the industry or that he is a Hall of Fame cuemaker and has been doing it for over 20 years. What you get with Paul is a great product at a very fair price. That is more than I can say for a lot of the other cuemakers in the industry.
 
Monstermash said:
Ok Guys, the joke is over.

I couldn't sleep the other night when I first posted this so I thought I would have a little fun with you guys. I'm glad it sparked a healthy debate and gave us all a laugh.
I hope it also made some of you reflect on the art that goes into cuemaking and an insight to some of the new and exciting tools that are becoming available. Per usual, Paul is at the forefront of the cue building technology.

For those of you who guessed it was a lazer.... you were correct! Although it was NOT the lazer cutting the Ivory that made the bottom black. After the lazer made the "cut" Paul used a black ink to highlight the design. The detail in this piece is nothing short of amazing. Yes Vasilios, it IS that small. You are correct that the whole piece is about 3" but the details are very, very tiny.

In rsponse to scdiveteam's post....

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply and maybe I misunderstood the post but I wouldn't say Paul is laughing all the way to the bank. There are a few other cuemakers I feel that statement would apply better to. There is one member here who thinks he's god's gift to the planet and can chage $1200+ for a plain jane wrapless cue because of "the beauty of the wood". If ther was every a time to call BS, it would be on this. That being said, I have never owned one of his cues mostly because I think he's grossly overpriced. I'm sure they play good but so do a lot of other cuemaker's cues and they are not this expenisve. Some of you should consider giving Paul a call before you place the order for your next cue. I think you'll find that his prices are very realistic.

Honestly I know some of you here think I spend a good amount of time "marketing" Paul's cues. And although I wouldn't use that term, you are correct to some extent. I do spend some time showing off Paul's work and with what I feel is a very good reason. Well, two reasons actually. First, Paul and I are friends. And I'm not referring to a customer/cuemaker type of friend. Yes, it began that way but it has crossed that boundry a while ago. I had a cookout this past summer and Paul and Ellen were invited and they drove an hour and 15 minutes to get here. Last weekend I was invited to a very personal event for their son Austin, and I attended. I challenge anyone to admit they wouldn't go the extra mile to help "market" a friend's product. Especially one that they personally use and believe is one of the best made.
That brings me to the second reason why I "market" Paul's cues. I believe they are one of the best values in the market today. Paul's creative talent is almost without equal and his execution is top notch. Forget about the fact that he has the best quality wood in the industry or that he is a Hall of Fame cuemaker and has been doing it for over 20 years. What you get with Paul is a great product at a very fair price. That is more than I can say for a lot of the other cuemakers in the industry.
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Badmouthing another maker's cues' value to elevate another maker dun't work too well.
Why should that maker ( and we know who you are referring to ) charge less if the flippers are flipping his cues for profit ?
I'm pretty sure a hundred makers can easily make 6-point SW style cues but that doesn't diminish SW's cues' values.
PFD makes great cues. You don't have to bash another maker's cues' value to sell PFD.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Badmouthing another maker's cues' value to elevate another maker dun't work too well.
Why should that maker ( and we know who you are referring to ) charge less if the flippers are flipping his cues for profit ?
I'm pretty sure a hundred makers can easily make 6-point SW style cues but that doesn't diminish SW's cues' values.
PFD makes great cues. You don't have to bash another maker's cues' value to sell PFD.
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Really? I didn't mention anyone by name. I could be referring to 10 different makers.

And I didn't say he should charge less. I simply suggested that his cues are not worth what they sell for. There are a lot of cues in the market today that fall into that category. I simply used a wrapless design as an example. The only reason for the inflated prices are the "hype" from the flippers. Why is it ok for them to do that and not someone else? The problem is that what ever the flipper is selling at this moment is the best greatest thing ever. Then next week they are on to something else and the buyer of that cue is stuck with it. Please don't bother trying to deny that that happens all time here. Everyone knows it but no one ever says anything. Personally I'm getting pretty sick of all the hype for that reason. Now if someone were on here hyping AE cues I wouldn't have an issue with it because they make great cues and I feel they are one of the most underrated makes on the planet. Do you realize what you could get from Paul for the same money that you would spend from the hyped maker? It's silly really.

Sorry you feel the way you do and honestly I'm a bit offended. When someone acts the way he does it should be called out. The problem is he's the "golden boy" and everyone is afraid to say anything.

If you really think I'm out of line here, give me one good reason why his cues should be more expensive than Paul's.
 
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Monstermash said:
Really? I didn't mention anyone by name. I could be referring to 10 different makers.

And I didn't say he should charge less. I simply suggested that his cues are not worth what they sell for. There are a lot of cues in the market today that fall into that category. I simply used a wrapless design as an example. The only reason for the inflated prices are the "hype" from the flippers. Why is it ok for them to do that and not someone else? The problem is that what ever the flipper is selling at this moment is the best greatest thing ever. Then next week they are on to something else and the buyer of that cue is stuck with it. Please don't bother trying to deny that that happens all time here. Everyone knows it but no one ever says anything. Personally I'm getting pretty sick of all the hype for that reason. Now if someone were on here hyping AE cues I wouldn't have an issue with it because they make great cues and I feel they are one of the most underrated makes on the planet. Do you realize what you could get from Paul for the same money that you would spend from the hyped maker? It's silly really.

Sorry you feel the way you do and honestly I'm a bit offended. When someone acts the way he does it should be called out. The problem is he's the "golden boy" and everyone is afraid to say anything.

If you really think I'm out of line here, give me one good reason why his cues should be more expensive than Paul's.
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So you are referring to one person . We know who it is even if you try to hide it . They are not 10 makers. Or one of the 10.
All flippers hype cues. That includes you.
 
JoeyInCali said:
So you are referring to one person . We know who it is even if you try to hide it . They are not 10 makers. Or one of the 10.
All flippers hype cues. That includes you.
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Of course I was referring to one person but I didn't name him so it was left to speculation.

The difference is, I'm not a "flipper". I don't buy cues with the intent to flip them. Sometimes I buy something and it's not what I expected or something comes up and I need the money so it gets sold. Thats it, explained simple for you to understand so we won't have to continue THAT conversation.

I noticed you couldn't give me a reason why his cues sold for more than Paul"s.
 
Monstermash said:
Of course I was referring to one person but I didn't name him so it was left to speculation.

The difference is, I'm not a "flipper". I don't buy cues with the intent to flip them. Sometimes I buy something and it's not what I expected or something comes up and I need the money so it gets sold. Thats it, explained simple for you to understand so we won't have to continue THAT conversation.

I noticed you couldn't give me a reason why his cues sold for more than Paul"s.
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That's too easy. The market decides that .
You wouldn't whine if PFD plane janes sold for $1200.
I don't whine why mine don't go as high as his. I'd find out instead how he got there.
Lambros plane janes get top dollar . More power to Lambros.
Searing's no points cues go for 2K or more . More power to Dennis.
 
If a cue sells for $1200, it must be worth $1200. Maybe not to you or me but they are someone. Market dictates price. Selling a cue you made at any price is a great accomplishment. (generally speaking. not specific to any cuemaker)




<~~All is good; More is better.
 
JoeyInCali said:
That's too easy. The market decides that .
You wouldn't whine if PFD plane janes sold for $1200.
I don't whine why mine don't go as high as his. I'd find out instead how he got there.
Lambros plane janes get top dollar . More power to Lambros.
Searing's no points cues go for 2K or more . More power to Dennis.
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No, HYPE decides that. I would love to see where he would be without AZ. You remember a time before AZ right? When a maker had to go out locally and sell his cues based on quality and design. Remember? Or was that before your time? I would love to see him and Paul walk into a room where regular people are and show off their cues. As examples in the $1200 range we'll use a PFD Davis blank cue and one of his plain jane cues and see which one sells faster. Want to make a bet on this?

And just where are the PFD plain janes? I can tell you there are not that many out there, if any. The reason is that Paul is capable of making cues that require some creativity. The maker I mentioned does not have that capability or at least it appears he doesn't. Everything he makes looks the same. Then when someone makes something that resembles one of "his" designs he calls them out and crys about it like he was the first one to come up with the design.
As some have stated, the reason why some cue makers get the money they get for their cues is because of the art factor. Where is the art factor of making the same thing over and over and over? Show me something different, PLEASE!

Please do not try and compare him to Lambros and Searing. They shouldn't even be mentioned on the same day on the same forum as him.
 
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ratcues said:
If a cue sells for $1200, it must be worth $1200. Maybe not to you or me but they are someone. Market dictates price. Selling a cue you made at any price is a great accomplishment. (generally speaking. not specific to any cuemaker)




<~~All is good; More is better.
Click to expand...

WORD!
Even if someone is jealous of it.
 
Monstermash said:
No, HYPE decides that. I would love to see where he would be without AZ. You remember a time before AZ right? When a maker had to go out locally and sell his cues based on quality and design. Remember? Or was that before your time? I would love to see him and Paul walk into a room where regular people are and show off their cues. As examples in the $1200 range we'll use a PFD Davis blank cue and one of his plain jane cues and see which one sells faster. Want to make a bet on this?

And just where are the PFD plain janes? I can tell you there are not that many out there, if any. The reason is that Paul is capable of making cues that require some creativity. The maker I mentioned does not have that capability or at least it appears he doesn't. Everything he makes looks the same. Then when someone makes something that resembles one of "his" designs he calls them out and crys about it like he was the first one to come up with the design.
As some have stated, the reason why some cue makers get the money they get for their cues is because of the art factor. Where is the art factor of making the same thing over and over and over? Show me something different, PLEASE!

Please do not try and compare him to Lambros and Searing. They shouldn't even be mentioned on the same day on the same forum as him.
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Back to badmouthing the man's cues' values again.
PFD's cues will sell without your incessant disparaging of another maker's cues.
 
As a side note if who is being spoken of is who I think it is. There is an art to using mother natures design as in wood grain and figure as way of decorating a cue. This is an ART which has been around a long time. It is one of the marks of true craftsman in the way of wood working. That artistic eye has a value and I think the market reflects that. Having said that I am not saying that Pauls cues are not good or bashing him in any way. Thats my take on it.
 
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Monstermash said:
You're right. And it's my opinion. Sorry that you disagree but I know a lot of others who agree with me.
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I'm pretty sure a ton of people would disagree too but that doesn't mean they should badmouth PFD's cues values and his work.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'm pretty sure a ton of people would disagree too but that doesn't mean they should badmouth PFD's cues values and his work.
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You really have too much time on your hands. I guess I need to explain this to you like your a 4 year old.

I NEVER MENTIONED THE OTHER MAKERS NAME! You can speculate all you want, it doesn't change it. GET IT?

There IS a difference here. Paul is a MASTER cuemaker and a Hall of Famer. While Paul could charge what the other guy is charging, he doesn't. Thats called value, and not taking advantage of people. So I guess what you're really saying is that it's ok to overcharge people and rip them off?
 
Monstermash said:
You really have too much time on your hands. I guess I need to explain this to you like your a 4 year old.

I NEVER MENTIONED THE OTHER MAKERS NAME! You can speculate all you want, it doesn't change it. GET IT?

There IS a difference here. Paul is a MASTER cuemaker and a Hall of Famer. While Paul could charge what the other guy is charging, he doesn't. Thats called value, and not taking advantage of people. So I guess what you're really saying is that it's ok to overcharge people and rip them off?
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You're still clueless about the market.
Maybe someday it'll come to you.
Badmouthing an un-named maker won't change a thing.
 
We all know who you are talking about, and ive never played with a PFD cue. I like the looks of Pauls cues, but i like the looks of the other guys cues too. Its all personal preference. I prefer to play with a less fancy cue. I dont wanna take a super fancy inlaid PFD in a bar, id rather take a simpler looking cue out with me. Also, as i am learning about cue making, its pretty clear that the guy you are talking about makes a great cue, because if he didnt, his prices wouldnt be close to what they are. Its much harder to make a cue than most people know. Ive made 6 sneakys, and i wont sell any of them because they are not even close to being good enough. For the money he gets, his cues have to be flawless, and the ones ive seen and played with are. Im not picking a side here, or bashing Paul, im just stating my opinion. I would like to try a PFD someday though.

Joe
 
Monstermash said:
Really? I didn't mention anyone by name. I could be referring to 10 different makers.

And I didn't say he should charge less. I simply suggested that his cues are not worth what they sell for. There are a lot of cues in the market today that fall into that category. I simply used a wrapless design as an example. The only reason for the inflated prices are the "hype" from the flippers. Why is it ok for them to do that and not someone else? The problem is that what ever the flipper is selling at this moment is the best greatest thing ever. Then next week they are on to something else and the buyer of that cue is stuck with it. Please don't bother trying to deny that that happens all time here. Everyone knows it but no one ever says anything. Personally I'm getting pretty sick of all the hype for that reason. Now if someone were on here hyping AE cues I wouldn't have an issue with it because they make great cues and I feel they are one of the most underrated makes on the planet. Do you realize what you could get from Paul for the same money that you would spend from the hyped maker? It's silly really.

Sorry you feel the way you do and honestly I'm a bit offended. When someone acts the way he does it should be called out. The problem is he's the "golden boy" and everyone is afraid to say anything.

If you really think I'm out of line here, give me one good reason why his cues should be more expensive than Paul's.
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i dont know why you feel you should be able to dictate other cuemakers prices, and frankly i dont think anyone gives a shit. supply and demand people will pay for what they like and if they like a PJ with great wood for 1200 so be it. i dont understand why your so dick hurt on ther cuemakers and what they charge?

joey is right you dont need to bad mouth other makers to sell cues especially PFD's cues their great, but so are the other guys.
 
LGSM3 said:
maybe u should keep practicing, anybody with a desktop machine these days can do machining with an 0005 endmill!:p

its a joke....the whole thread is joke. Cant you hear Paul laughing?
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This statement alone shows your knowledge of machining and machine tools to be almost nill. I doubt there are more than a hand full of "desktop" machines with less than .0005 runout.

As far as Paul......nope, I see him staying out of it because he knew all along this claim of milling this part was a lie and that anyone with any real machining knowledge could tell it at a glance.
 
Renegade_56 said:
This statement alone shows your knowledge of machining and machine tools to be almost nill. I doubt there are more than a hand full of "desktop" machines with less than .0005 runout. Seriously?...it was a joke....lighten up....duh
As far as Paul......nope, I see him staying out of it because he knew all along this claim of milling this part was a lie and that anyone with any real machining knowledge could tell it at a glance.
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This was a joke too, nobody was lying! It was all for fun....by design. Guess it worked
 
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