Three consecutive fouls rule in 8-ball?

M

mincho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do any of you play three consecutive fouls in 8-ball is a loss of game? What about pro/international tournaments?

Nowhere in the BCA 8-ball handbook do I see this mentioned, but a guy I play with insists this rule is widely used where he's from, and in tournament play.
 
I think they play this way in some pro tournaments. I know the IPT played with the 3 foul rule. I do not know any leagues or local tournaments that use it however.
 
My wife Shannon and I used to run the Columbus Open here in Columbus, Ohio and we used the three foul rule in the team eight ball tournament. I have only seen one person win using the three foul rule.....some kid name Corey Deuel. I think he was around 16 or 17 at the time. And he gave the guy ball in hand, and informed him that he was on two. The guy was on the eight ball and Corey had all his balls around the eight. The guy tried to jump into the eight and hit it, but the cue ball came to rest on the floor. Plus, I believe it was a hill-hill match.
 
Three fouls.

mincho said:
Do any of you play three consecutive fouls in 8-ball is a loss of game? What about pro/international tournaments?

Nowhere in the BCA 8-ball handbook do I see this mentioned, but a guy I play with insists this rule is widely used where he's from, and in tournament play.
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Won't really work in league pool. Too easy for a good player playing a weak player. Just not much fun. I'm defensive so I would love it. League pool is supposed to be fun. Keeping track would just be one more thing to argue about. Although league pool seems to be going good right now, it needs to be kept fun and people ain't going to like a 3 foul rule.
 
mincho said:
Do any of you play three consecutive fouls in 8-ball is a loss of game? What about pro/international tournaments?

Nowhere in the BCA 8-ball handbook do I see this mentioned, but a guy I play with insists this rule is widely used where he's from, and in tournament play.
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Here http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2002-02.pdf is an article about the history of the official rules of eight ball. As mentioned above, the IPT had a 3-foul rule but as I recall very few games were decided by three fouls. That level of player simple runs out.

As of now, there is no major organization that uses 3 fouls in eight ball that I know of. It is a very bad idea in handicapped competition when one player is very weak and a pretty bad idea if both players are weak. Maybe no one will use the "nuclear option" but if it happens I think there will be unrest.
 
Wasn't the 3 foul rule implimented at the Accu-Stats Invitational 8 Ball tournament years ago?
 
The 3-foul was in effect at Allen Hopkins' SBE in 2002 (I think)

Pat Murray was the tournament director.....
...Troy Frank won

I don't recall anyone being 3-fouled
 
There are some cases in 8 ball where the only way to not lose is to foul for both players even if they have ball in hand (a stalemate). The 3 foul rule would just make it so that the player who got lucky by not having to foul first wins, I don't think its fair to award a win when both players are stuck.
 
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I really don't understand the logic behind having a 3 foul rule in 8 ball. If a guy runs down to the 8 and misses position do you really want to see the incoming player play 3 consecutive safes to win the rack? This would be quite easy to do and I don't think it makes the game more enjoyable for either the players or the spectators. Plus it would actually slow the game down even more. The incoming player should be encouraged to run out.

I guess I was just a bit surprised to hear that anybody uses a 3 foul rule in 8 ball.
 
Masayoshi said:
There are some cases in 8 ball where the only way to not lose is to foul for both players even if they have ball in hand (a stalemate). The 3 foul rule would just make it so that the player who got lucky by not having to foul first wins, I don't think its fair to award a win when both players are stuck.
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The 3-foul is very fair....the onus SHOULD be on the one who fouled first.
the 3-foul is a good rule because it eliminates stalemates.....imo
 
3-foul 8-ball?

pt109 said:
The 3-foul is very fair....the onus SHOULD be on the one who fouled first.
the 3-foul is a good rule because it eliminates stalemates.....imo
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I believe that the NPBA (1959-1984?) used the 3-foul loss (they played 2-foul BIH), and the VNEA used the 3-foul loss in 8-ball during the '80s. It was abandoned because it was over-used (used when not at all necessary), just to piss people off and take them out of their game. It was a serious controversy at the North American Championships in 1987.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
Donny Lutz said:
I believe that the NPBA (1959-1984?) used the 3-foul loss (they played 2-foul BIH), and the VNEA used the 3-foul loss in 8-ball during the '80s. It was abandoned because it was over-used (used when not at all necessary), just to piss people off and take them out of their game. It was a serious controversy at the North American Championships in 1987.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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That's where I see the problem. If it is a rule that 3 fouls in a row is loss of game and the incoming player thinks they have a 97% chance of winning by 3 fouling and only a 90% chance of running out why wouldn't they go for the 3 foul? You still run into people that get upset about being 3 fouled at 9 ball. I just don't see how this rule can be applied to 8 ball.
 
Donny Lutz said:
I believe that the NPBA (1959-1984?) used the 3-foul loss (they played 2-foul BIH), and the VNEA used the 3-foul loss in 8-ball during the '80s. It was abandoned because it was over-used (used when not at all necessary), just to piss people off and take them out of their game. It was a serious controversy at the North American Championships in 1987.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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Yeah, maybe it should just be a pro rule....
...I think most pros would rather have to kick than their opponent running
out.
I can see where the 3-foul could be devastating for an APA 3.
 
MSchaffer said:
Valley Forge Bar Box 8 ball Championship (don't know when, though)
Shane Morrow v Josh Ulrich
8th rack Shane 3-fouls Josh

8th rack is around the 51-minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eChs3L9KxyA&feature=related
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And here's another match where the 3-foul rule was used in 8-ball:

Efren Reyes vs. Mark Jarvis, World Pool Championship 8 Ball 1995
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_OnK9P4rWTM​

I tend to agree that, at the levels of the higher-echelon players, 3-foul is an interesting twist to the game of 8-ball. It adds another feather to the quiver of this calibre of player, to win.

However, lower-level players (e.g. your average league'er) lack the ability to kick accurately with consistency -- often, it's a "swing and hope" endeavor. So the higher-skill-level player definitely has the advantage here against the lower-skill-level player.

Bob Jewett calls it the "nuclear option" and I tend to agree:

1. It's very easy to play safe in 8-ball as it is. The low-hanging fruit of a good safety should be enough as it is.

2. Your average league'er has a dim outlook on "safeties" in general (I've heard some very unkind adjectives used -- including the very racist "n" word -- to refer to safety play). League'ers complain *enough* about trivial things. Can you just imagine what would happen if someone wins a rack by leveraging a 3-foul rule? I cringe at the thought!

In summary, I think 3-foul for 8-ball is good at the shortstop or better level of play. But definitely *NOT* for average league 8-ball!

-Sean
 
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