Aiming Systems: Do you really care?

[Ratta]

Well,

i m *outing* myself to use 3-4 systems all the time. Implemented those systems i ve been using for decades into my PSR- so using *kind of* subconscious.
And under pressure, or even if m feeling uncomfortable (being nervous, unsure etc.) i m glad to get my positive feelings back by using those systems. Then i have the feeling again to have *the control*.

lg
Ingo

 

[Falcon Eddie]

A great pool player once said " I would eat worms if it made me play better ". So, hey someone might ask....what kind ?

 

[lfigueroa]

So in a word NO, I don't care at all, and think that this is nothing but instigating...I mean really you are intelligent, what else could it be? Over And over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and Over and over and over again...I mean c'mon....

You should refrain from making topics that attack naysayers while asking about a completely different topic. It is quite cowardly and dishonest because it makes it difficult to address those attacks while staying on topic.

I'm beginning to see a pattern.

JoeyA, are you PocketPoint?

...Give up on the cheap marketing. Or at least admit it for a change.

For a guy that says he doesn't care who uses what, you do a lot of converting.

Better question is why do you care?
Is it a pathological need to be right?

I can see some naysayers getting pissed off when someone is trying to feel superior.

You are provoking people and then crying about the result. :grin:

Instead of having to be right, it’s better to enjoy life.

I dont see why its so hard to admit that all systems have their limitations. Avoid words like amazing, incredible, and 100%, and nobody would say sh1t.

You know, just every once in a whie, you log on to the forum, open your first thread, and realize: it's going to be a very good day

Thanks, guys, for making my day.

Lou Figueroa
"Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard..."
Hamlet Act 3, scene 4

 

[Pushout]

I'll follow a trend I've seen recently and quote my post from the other thread:

"What's always bothered me is, that though many people say they are using a certain system {CTE, for example} and using it for several years and having it work for them, there are others who insist that it won't, doesn't, can't possibly work. Like someone already said, I don't need anything "proven" to me that it can't work, mathematically or otherwise, when I've been using it for several years and it works just fine. If you don't like it or use it, fine. But please don't tell me it doesn't work when it does."
_______

That's a no, also

 

[JoeyA]

You know, just every once in a whie, you log on to the forum, open your first thread, and realize: it's going to be a very good day

Thanks, guys, for making my day.

Lou Figueroa
"Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard..."
Hamlet Act 3, scene 4

I guess that means you care.

 

[daphish1]

What I mean is do you really care if anyone is using a particular aiming system?

Really, I'm just curious. For me , the simple truth is I don't care what anyone else uses.

Joey, I'm with you I don't care what anyone uses.

I do like to read about different aiming systems because it can give me ideas that I might be able to use to improve my own game. I do believe there's not a catch-all aiming system. Debating about aiming systems is futile.

I use the "ghost ball-cte-pro1-fractional-feel" system, in other words, I take what I like from any aiming system I've tried and found that works for me and incorporate it into my game. I do it all unconsciously of course. Knowing where to aim is no longer the problem, it's all in the delivery.

 

[Icon of Sin]

Really, I'm just curious. For me , the simple truth is I don't care what anyone else uses.

However if they play well, I'm always interested in learning how they aim...

So you do care?

 

[MOJOE]

Not a naysayer or a yeasayer.. Just Mojoe!

Here's my take. I'm sure it means little but it's Friday and I'm at work with few trouble tickets to take care of so here I go.

I could care less what everyone else is using, I won't say aiming systems don't work for others but I had no success with using them myself.

I had a one on one lesson prior to the DVD, watched the Pro One DVD several times and could just not get comfortable with it. I guess I'm too logical but I could not wrap my brain around what was going on, I had minimal success and played very poorly for quite a while during the Aiming system experimentation period.

This past summer I decided to stop playing for a few months and give my brain a rest, step away from the game for a while. During that period, I did not study any aiming systems or pool but I did start to watch the pro's and how the strong ones were lining up with their shot.

I am a firm believer that most of us know how to aim naturally by looking at the ball, no rocket science there. What I don't believe many do is consistently line up their body correctly on a consistent basis. That's why people that see the aim, miss the shots.

Since I've paid consistent attention to how I address EVERY shot, and NOT worry about aiming, I'm playing the best pool of my life. I repeat, I don't really worry about aiming.
I would certainly not call this aiming, maybe a pre-shot routine if you will but whatever you want to call it, I've found a consistent game for the first time since I picked up a cue over 25 years ago.

If aiming systems work for you, that's great. Just speaking for myself, all of this pivoting once I am down just does not compute, too much movement for me. I'm not a naysayer, and I am speaking from personal experience as I spent a lot of time and energy into learning the systems.

I'm back to playing natural with the best results of my life. Been playing for several months now at my highest level ever! Just my take, aiming system are just not for me.

If you can believe they work for you, that's great. All the power to ya.

Now let's all just get along!

 

[JoeyA]

Joey, I'm with you I don't care what anyone uses.

I do like to read about different aiming systems because it can give me ideas that I might be able to use to improve my own game. I do believe there's not a catch-all aiming system. Debating about aiming systems is futile.

I use the "ghost ball-cte-pro1-fractional-feel" system, in other words, I take what I like from any aiming system I've tried and found that works for me and incorporate it into my game. I do it all unconsciously of course. Knowing where to aim is no longer the problem, it's all in the delivery.

daphis1, you're right about debating aiming systems. I think that some people have trouble aiming correctly and when they start using aiming systems they start seeing the correct line on the shot.

Other people simply line up the correct line on the shot without using an aiming system.

Like you I've used multiple systems and have incorporated them into my game where they have become instinctive and natural. If I have trouble making a shot, (and you know it as soon as you "lock" onto the shot) it's nice to consciously (and I say manually) go through the aiming steps for your particular aiming system.

Aiming systems are there for anyone to use or not.

The truth is that I like helping people with their games and if an aiming system can help them get their game on track, it pleases me but if someone doesn't need or want help with their aiming, I'm completely satisfied with that too.

 

[JoeyA]

So you do care?

I posted the answer to your question after you posted yours. See my previous post.

 

[JoeyA]

Here's my take. I'm sure it means little but it's Friday and I'm at work with few trouble tickets to take care of so here I go.

I could care less what everyone else is using, I won't say aiming systems don't work for others but I had no success with using them myself.

I had a one on one lesson prior to the DVD, watched the Pro One DVD several times and could just not get comfortable with it. I guess I'm too logical but I could not wrap my brain around what was going on, I had minimal success and played very poorly for quite a while during the Aiming system experimentation period.

This past summer I decided to stop playing for a few months and give my brain a rest, step away from the game for a while. During that period, I did not study any aiming systems or pool but I did start to watch the pro's and how the strong ones were lining up with their shot.

I am a firm believer that most of us know how to aim naturally by looking at the ball, no rocket science there. What I don't believe many do is consistently line up their body correctly on a consistent basis. That's why people that see the aim, miss the shots.

Since I've paid consistent attention to how I address EVERY shot, and NOT worry about aiming, I'm playing the best pool of my life. I repeat, I don't really worry about aiming.
I would certainly not call this aiming, maybe a pre-shot routine if you will but whatever you want to call it, I've found a consistent game for the first time since I picked up a cue over 25 years ago.

If aiming systems work for you, that's great. Just speaking for myself, all of this pivoting once I am down just does not compute, too much movement for me. I'm not a naysayer, and I am speaking from personal experience as I spent a lot of time and energy into learning the systems.

I'm back to playing natural with the best results of my life. Been playing for several months now at my highest level ever! Just my take, aiming system are just not for me.

If you can believe they work for you, that's great. All the power to ya.

Now let's all just get along!

Now this is the way a real man says his piece and I respect him for it. You should give lessons. Oh.... maybe you did.

 

[Banks]

Now this is the way a real man says his piece and I respect him for it. You should give lessons. Oh.... maybe you did.

Must've been tough to go almost an entire day with this thread withering away.

It's a pity that you just have to keep pushing the topic, as I find your posts on most other topics worth reading.

I know, you don't like to respond to me because you really don't have a response to somebody calling you out on this grossly absurd marketing ploy.

If you didn't try to pick away like a teacher's pet at anyone that disagrees with you("this is the way a real man" blah blah blah), you'd simply be a spammer instead of that guy.

And as far as your "bloodhound" junk goes; I was absolutely shocked that it took you this long to bump your own thread. Get a new tissue.

 

[pool101]

Now this is the way a real man says his piece and I respect him for it. You should give lessons. Oh.... maybe you did.

The question is, was anyone listening?

 

[KRJ]

hmmm

I still find it a little amazing that some folks truly believe that they "look" for their cue, go to the table and "look" it over, then "look" at their shot, do a pre shot routine, then "look" at the ob, then "look" at the pocket, then "look" at the cb, and then do a few practices strokes while "looking" at both the ob and cb, and when their cue makes contact with the cb, their eyes are "looking" at the ob, but for some reason they truly believe they were NOT aiming.

Sorry, but you were aiming. You can call it what you want but you aimed every step of the way..... whether you thought about it or not. And for many, they did this without any lessons, aiming systmes, or "tips" from anybody... and for that, god bless you...you are a natural talent, and most likely a pretty darn good player.

But please understand the rest of the world is not as talented, and that is true for MOST sports, not just pool. just saying.....

 

[Koop]

What I mean is do you really care if anyone is using a particular aiming system?

Really, I'm just curious. For me , the simple truth is I don't care what anyone else uses.

I honestly dont give a crap what anyone else does. I remember Hal telling me that people won't believe it and will tell you it's all crap. I didn't believe it, thinking, hey, this stuff really works and my friends will want to learn it....WRONG. So, you know what? Eff em all. It works for me and that's all I care about at this point.
Tell me it doesn't work or it's not mathematically correct. Fine, you're absolutely right. I'm full of shit and you should keep on doing what you're doing. Why the hell should I care? For some odd reason I'm two balls better than I used to be but it's probably because I've hit 2600 balls since then. Couldn't have anything to do with the 13 hours I spent on the table with Hal. Nope, definitely not. It must be the number of balls I've banged into the rail between then and now. Keep on keeping on my fellow rail bangers.

 

[cookie man]

Must've been tough to go almost an entire day with this thread withering away.

It's a pity that you just have to keep pushing the topic, as I find your posts on most other topics worth reading.

I know, you don't like to respond to me because you really don't have a response to somebody calling you out on this grossly absurd marketing ploy.

If you didn't try to pick away like a teacher's pet at anyone that disagrees with you("this is the way a real man" blah blah blah), you'd simply be a spammer instead of that guy.

And as far as your "bloodhound" junk goes; I was absolutely shocked that it took you this long to bump your own thread. Get a new tissue.

Funny Banks, took you less than twenty minutes to respond to Joey, in a thread you could care less about. What a sad life. Why do you feel the need to instigate?

 

[Majic]

What I mean is do you really care if anyone is using a particular aiming system?

Really, I'm just curious. For me , the simple truth is I don't care what anyone else uses.

However if they play well, I'm always interested in learning how they aim and I don't care if it's like one TOP PLAYER told me recently, "Well to tell you the truth Joey, I really don't know how I aim. Some people get mad at me when I tell them that but it's the truth. I don't know how I aim." or if it's some unique aiming system like aiming at the edges of the penumbra or the umbra, which another TOP PLAYER told me he uses.

To me, I feel some people need aiming systems to play their best pool for a variety of reasons. Some people play well simply by getting on the table and hitting a million balls.

If a person can hit a million balls and play like burning hell, I'm thrilled for them. If a banger hits balls like crap and uses an aiming system that I don't particularly like and he/she improves his game, likewise, I am thrilled with that as well.

Now the naysayers are still hanging on by a thread with their weak arguments about documentation and accusations that aiming system users make exaggerated claims . The naysayers have been proved wrong DOZENS AND DOZENS of times in this very forum by people who have never used an aiming system. Even the anonymous polls say that people are being helped by aiming systems.

The truth is that a couple of exhuberant aiming system users may have exaggerated their claims just a wee bit but they didn't do it to any reason except to celebrate their newfound success in pocketing balls. But if you listen to the naysayers, you might think that the yeasayers are trying to create some kind of knights templar secret aiming society. :killingme:

You'd also think if you listened to the naysayers that I have some kind of contract and make money on aiming system video sales. I wish that were true but it's not, so I'm just setting the record straight.

If you want to try and improve your pool game and it needs improvement, order a couple of aiming system videos and see which one if any helps your game.

If you don't want to improve your pool game via learning an aiming system go hit a million balls on the pool table. Either way is cool with me. I just like people to excel at the game I love. That's really all there is to it.

And if you do care about what some other person uses to aim, is it worth your time to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spinning in circles until you collapse? :grin:

Oh and for those that don't know, I don't like anyone to attack my friends and make disparaging, mean-spirite remarks about them. :smile:

So that's basically it for me about aiming systems. Do you really care what someone else uses or what someone else purports to be using? (Or is it really just about saving face?) ;-)

I don't really care what others use, but on the other hand if there is knowledge to be gained from experiencing the systems then it is worth the effort.

I try to keep an open mind on the aiming system issue and have tried a few myself. My take away is that there is no panacea, but experience and comfort level with a method is key to advancing.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

... accusations that aiming system users make exaggerated claims .

The truth is that a couple of exhuberant aiming system users may have exaggerated their claims just a wee bit but they didn't do it to any reason except to celebrate their newfound success in pocketing balls. But if you listen to the naysayers, you might think that the yeasayers are trying to create some kind of knights templar secret aiming society. :killingme:

Hey, check out this piece of embellishment from JB, who's an APA3: "I am gonna name drop here a little bit. I have asked Rafael Martinez, Rodney Morris, Jimmy Reid, Jose Parica, Danny Medina, Buddy Hall and several other top players questions and all of them have told me things not generally known that have helped my game."

JB is taking his exaggerated claims to a whole new level of fiction. :lol:

 

[dr_dave]

I don't think anyone is being dishonest in any claims that may have been made.

I know everything that I have ever said about CTE/Pro One and CTE and Perfect Aim has been honest and true to the very best of my knowledge and experience.

So, the only beef you have with aiming systems is that some people have made claims that YOU feel are just outright lies. Is that correct?

Joey,

Over these many years, many proponents of CTE and other align-and-pivot-based aiming systems have made many outrageous and unsubstantiated "marketing claims" concerning their "aiming systems." Many examples can be found in the spoofy marketing introduction for DAM. Almost every sentence in the intro was a direct quote from past postings on this forum. I personally appreciate the benefits that basic cut-shot "aiming systems" offer to some people, but I think the outrageous marketing claims are inappropriate, and they have made the proponents and systems "look bad."

For people who don't like links, here's the quote of the DAM marketing intro:

I have invented an amazing and new aiming system called DAM that will revolutionize pool playing all around the world. You won't find DAM in any books, because it has just been recently invented. But rest assured ... all future pool books will present DAM in its full glory. DAM is the best and most complete aiming system, that also contributes to correct body alignment, that has ever been devised. Most of the pros use it, especially the Filipino players ... that's why they are so good. DAM works on every shot, regardless of the distance between the balls, or the angle and distance to the pocket. The best thing about DAM is you don't even need to know or see where the pocket is. Just align and pivot, and the ball just goes in the hole. When a good player uses the system, it is impossible to tell ... it will just look like they are naturally pocketing balls. That's when you know they are using DAM!

Try to prove that DAM doesn't work ... you can't, because it does work. If you can't make it work, it is because you really don't understand it. If you ask a pro if he or she uses DAM, and he or she says he or she doesn't, it is because he or she doesn't want you to know his or her secrets. The DAM system will radically improve the shot-making abilities of those who spend the time to learn it. DAM will eventually become the "aiming standard" and will significantly accelerate your learning curve. There are those who will eventually learn the system, and there are those who will not, and be beaten by those who do. If you don't think DAM works, it is because you haven't had personalized lessons with somebody who truly understands it. I make almost every shot with this system ... I rarely miss. Isn't that proof of how good it is? Don't you want to be as good as me? If you want to master the DAM system, you must visit me in person and pay outrageous sums of money to learn all of the required intricacies.

It only takes two days to learn DAM, and if you practice it for two months, you will start winning tournaments. If you can't make it work, it is because you don't have enough "visual intelligence," in which case you are hopeless. Don't ask me to describe the system in words or with diagrams, because this can't be done; although, I do have lots of fancy words and phrases to describe various parts of the system ... aren't you impressed? If you don't believe in my system or if you doubt the validity of my approach, you will be banished by all of my followers.

Probably the most amazing fact about DAM is that it works for all types of shots, not just cut shots. It also gives you the correct line of aim for combos, caroms, and banks. And you don't need to adjust for speed, English, throw, and spin-transfer effects. All of the adjustment happen automatically with DAM.

If you want to learn the magic of DAM, I am currently offering exclusive private lessons. I know this might sound ridiculous, but I must be clear on this matter: My students are not allowed to share with anybody anything they learn. They are required to sign a special nondisclosure agreement that binds them for life. People are willing to openly discuss and share everything they learn from my VEPS series; but if and when I ever release the DAM-DVD, the information must not be disclosed by any viewers; otherwise, they risk exposing themselves to extreme wrath and persecution.
​

Regards,
Dave (a naysayer against outrageous marketing claims, and a yaysayer for appreciation of realistic benefits)

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

.............