chicken wing

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KingJerryO

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Maybe this is a stupid question, but here goes anyway. If your elbow and shoulder are not in perfect plane with the cue(a little chicken wing) and you execute a pendulum type stroke(movement from elbow down only) is it physically possible to move the cue in a straight line? I think not but I'm seeking opinions.
 
Yes. Textbook technique is sometimes over rated. If it works for you, then do it. The Hurricane wasn't textbook in his stroke, but it worked for him.
 
If the cue is level at the point of impact, it will move straight through. If you're veering, then check your stance. The whole point of teaching the pendulum stroke is to create a basis of repeatable stroke that you can trust. For many instructors, pendulum stroke is an effective way to get someone up to speed.

There are people who spent years, 10, 20, or lifetime who never heard of pendulum stroke, or a profound chicken wing. They have spent so much time practicing, that they got their timing down so they can make shots.

As Bruce Lee once said, "Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory"; pointing to the moon
 

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I took a video of me playing after 50+ years of playing. I noticed the chicken wing and tried to change it. After 2 weeks of missing too many makeable shots I packed the video and ALL books and dvd's up and put them away. In two days I was running racks of 9&10 ball and running some 40,50, and 60's in 14.1. Johnnyt
 
Do you have any videos of your playing style...? Maybe we can pick up some pointers.
 
My theory is that you can't stroke straight using the method that I described. I think that with enough practice you just learn how to hit balls straight with a crooked stroke. In other words you learn timing. Just a theory. All opinions are welcome.
 
jason said:
Yes. Textbook technique is sometimes over rated. If it works for you, then do it. The Hurricane wasn't textbook in his stroke, but it worked for him.
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I agree with this but I do think as the pockets continue to get tighter we will see an evolution in technique. I think we will begin to see more modified snooker stances in pool. If you watch closely when pros play on tighter equipment they tend to clean up their fundamentals a bit. They take a little longer on their PSRs and their strokes seem to be a little tighter (if that makes since). I think historically pool players have always been able to get away with all kinds of unorthodox techniques because of the margin for error we have to work with concerning the size of the pockets.

If I was starting from scratch I would want to lean as much as possible in the direction of the snooker stance. At the same time, just because you have 20 years invested in a particular stroke doesn't mean you can't change that know. At the height of Tiger Woods' career he decided to rebuild his stroke. I see no reason a pool player couldn't do it.

**Of course this is just the ramblings of one guy :) ***
 
keep in mind, I'm not saying that you can't hit the cue ball in a straight line. I'm just saying that if you slowly went through the full range of motion with a laser beam coming out of the tip, you would witness lateral movement. I THINK
 
I was stuck at a B level for a while until I changed my stance and got rid of the chicken wing and freed up my stroking arm. Changing is tough and very frustrating but can be done with a little guidance and a lot of patience and I believe it will improve anyone's game.
 
There is a possible cause for the chicken wing that doesn't get mentioned in these threads. We talk about trying to have somebody stand behind us and physically put our arm into a straight line or coach us to move it until it lines up straight verbally. We also twist in our stances in and out or try to isolate our elbow till we look like Captain Hook.

We figure by moving the cue away from our bodies it can swing freely and attain a straight pendulum stroke. Logically we think by moving further away from the cue the elbow will be pulled over the grip hand. It will if you force it to center over the back hand, but it will right back where you started a few shots later, probably worse than before.

Here's a tip that will be dismissed by most...move your body closer to your shooting arm. It's counter-intuitive and blasphemy to come close to crowding your stroke. Your arm won't swing freely and you'll be worse off than before! Hmmmmm?

What if your back hand is comfortable where it is? Your pool brain says that it's in the right spot. Why fight it by putting your elbow out to gain stroking room? Move your body slightly closer to your shooting hand and watch what it does. The shooting hand moves with the body to maintain shooting clearance and it aligns more under the elbow. Not possible?

Best,
Mike
 
I have an extreme Chicken Wing developed over the years because i didn't had coaching when first started.
My cue touches my body when shooting, that is why i play wrapless.
But you learn to adjust, i know the shots, i always give myself an angle on balls.
When i get a ball back and it is straight with distance im in trouble, especially when i have to make a drawshot.
I know with a long distance drawshot, my cueaction is not straight anymore and i miss.
I overcame that problem to make stopshots, and pot more balls over distance.
To make things worse i lost half of my right indexfinger in a factoryaccident, and that is my bridgehand, so i play all shots open hand...
But i run racks, because i learned to adjust.
I will never be a pro, but on a good day my opponent is in trouble world classplayer or not.
For example beat Niels Feijen 4-1 in a Dutch Championship match first set, he won the second 3-4, and the sudden death 0-1 due to.... a bad long distance drawshot...

MH
HOB Weert
 
BasementDweller said:
I agree with this but I do think as the pockets continue to get tighter we will see an evolution in technique. I think we will begin to see more modified snooker stances in pool. If you watch closely when pros play on tighter equipment they tend to clean up their fundamentals a bit. They take a little longer on their PSRs and their strokes seem to be a little tighter (if that makes since). I think historically pool players have always been able to get away with all kinds of unorthodox techniques because of the margin for error we have to work with concerning the size of the pockets.

If I was starting from scratch I would want to lean as much as possible in the direction of the snooker stance. At the same time, just because you have 20 years invested in a particular stroke doesn't mean you can't change that know. At the height of Tiger Woods' career he decided to rebuild his stroke. I see no reason a pool player couldn't do it.
**Of course this is just the ramblings of one guy :) ***
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That hasn't seemed to work out too well for him up to this point, lol.
 
The OP is correct, a pendulum stroke with a chicken wing arm will produce lateral movement in the cue. The bridge becomes the pivot point, more than likely forcing left english, or subconsciously aiming to the right side of the cue ball to compensate. I sometimes have to force my elbow back towards my body when I feel the chicken wing going on. I have learned the visual difference while in the psr to see if the cue is going straight back/forward or laterally (left/right).

I believe people can learn to play this way, they get used to the aim compensation and throw produced. I believe they are most likely to miss one side of the pocket and that increased pressure and stress exagerate the effect.
 
KingJerryO said:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but here goes anyway. If your elbow and shoulder are not in perfect plane with the cue(a little chicken wing) and you execute a pendulum type stroke(movement from elbow down only) is it physically possible to move the cue in a straight line? I think not but I'm seeking opinions.
Click to expand...

Ralph Greenleaf and Willie Hoppe would seem to refute your argument.

Dale
 
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this is just my observation but the best players i see are kind of unothodox so to speak. i think you have to start with a basic framework and with practice and experience you devlop a natural/comfortable style. in my personal experience. i had a completely different style when i quit 12 years ago. i recently picked the game back up and have been analyzing things and found the less i force a particular way to shoot the better i do.

a good professional example is keith mccready. he shoots sort of side-armed and he looks very comfortable although unorthodox. and he sure does do beautiful things with that cue ball.
 
I have trouble steering my cue to the right. That seems to come from pulling my hand and elbow into the body. What drills have you guys done to help correct a stroke that is not fully straight. Right now I am doing the first few mother drills to try and emphasize a straight forward stroke, as well as shooting straight in shots and trying to avoid any spin. Making the shots is not a problem, but I tend to have right hand spin on the CB. I am also hitting the CB up and down the table, trying to get it to come back to my tip.

It has improved some, but comes back more when I hit the CB harder of course. Just wondering if anyone has any good drills for this, or if it could be caused by stance in general.
 
pdcue said:
Ralph Greenleaf and Willie Hoppe would seem to refute your argument.

Dale
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Dale,
I just got off the phone with Willie and Ralph and they both informed me that they used what is more popularly known as a piston type stroke in which they drop the elbow.
 
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