Don't Make The Game So Hard To Learn

[sfleinen]

wow, that's a higher rating than I've seen anywhere I've lived. The players that are known as B players will only run out maybe 1 in 10 racks and that's on their good days, nowhere close to "reasonable chance to get out." Maybe there's been a change in the rating system and everyone just wants to be known as a B player. An A player will run out about 1 in 3 racks. In a tournament with 40 players usually 6 will be an A, 30 B's and 4 C's and most of those B's won't break and run more than once in 20 tries. I'm talking about on a 9 foot table.

Jesse:

I think that's the rub right there (bolded above). Like it or not, huge swaths of the country are based on barbox pool. Once you leave traditionally-9-footer areas (e.g. the Northeast), and start heading into the Midwest or the heartland, you are in "barbox country." All their games and skill ratings are based on barbox pool. And, I would venture to guess that the country's real estate (read: ratio) of barbox-playing areas to 9-footer-playing areas is a landslide in favor of the barbox.

Taking 9-ball as an example, a skill rating on a barbox does NOT equal that same skill rating on the 9-footer. 9-ball on a barbox is a lot easier than on a 9-footer. So these descriptions of a "B" player I see being quoted in this thread, especially blurbs like "able to run 1 to 3 racks" or "if they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out," or stuff like that, that's definitely on a barbox. No "B" player I've ever seen can do that "on average" on a 9-footer.

-Sean

 

[mincho]

You live in Arizona. I don't know if you are familiar with the Arizona rating system. If you are, a B player would be somewhere around a high 7 or an 8.

Interesting, however I just moved here recently and don't know anything about that system.

 

[justadub]

Jesse:

I think that's the rub right there (bolded above). Like it or not, huge swaths of the country are based on barbox pool. Once you leave traditionally-9-footer areas (e.g. the Northeast), and start heading into the Midwest or the heartland, you are in "barbox country." All their games and skill ratings are based on barbox pool. And, I would venture to guess that the country's real estate (read: ratio) of barbox-playing areas to 9-footer-playing areas is a landslide in favor of the barbox.

Taking 9-ball as an example, a skill rating on a barbox does NOT equal that same skill rating on the 9-footer. 9-ball on a barbox is a lot easier than on a 9-footer. So these descriptions of a "B" player I see being quoted in this thread, especially blurbs like "able to run 1 to 3 racks" or "if they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out," or stuff like that, that's definitely on a barbox. No "B" player I've ever seen can do that "on average" on a 9-footer.

-Sean

Thanks for that input, Sean. Reading about this topic many times over the past couple years, I often wonder if we don't have any "good" players here. I see all this talk about running multiple racks, by many posters, and I don't see that here locally. Even from the better players. We play on 9-footers everywhere in our part of the world, even in league.

Also, we play a lot more 8-ball here, so I really don't have a point of reference for what constitutes a "A" or "B" player. I'm pretty sure it ain't me.

 

[JoeyA]

Jesse:

I think that's the rub right there (bolded above). Like it or not, huge swaths of the country are based on barbox pool. Once you leave traditionally-9-footer areas (e.g. the Northeast), and start heading into the Midwest or the heartland, you are in "barbox country." All their games and skill ratings are based on barbox pool. And, I would venture to guess that the country's real estate (read: ratio) of barbox-playing areas to 9-footer-playing areas is a landslide in favor of the barbox.

Taking 9-ball as an example, a skill rating on a barbox does NOT equal that same skill rating on the 9-footer. 9-ball on a barbox is a lot easier than on a 9-footer. So these descriptions of a "B" player I see being quoted in this thread, especially blurbs like "able to run 1 to 3 racks" or "if they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out," or stuff like that, that's definitely on a barbox. No "B" player I've ever seen can do that "on average" on a 9-footer.

-Sean

Excellent point. "B" bar table players are not "B" 9 foot table players; probably a C on 9 footers. A "B" 9 foot table player is probably an "A" on a bar table.

JoeyA (is still rated a 5 in the APA league- I don't know if that would be a C or a B)

 

[ronscuba]

So these descriptions of a "B" player I see being quoted in this thread, especially blurbs like "able to run 1 to 3 racks" or "if they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out," or stuff like that, that's definitely on a barbox. No "B" player I've ever seen can do that "on average" on a 9-footer.

-Sean

Sean:

I play on 9 foot tables at Amsterdam Billiards in NYC. A lot of very good players are in the various BCA leagues there. I have not scientifically tracked the league players vs the rating descriptions I quoted, but to me, they look about right.

Here are the descriptions for "D" and "C" from the same reference.

D- Player
will not run a rack
average run is about 3 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
rarely plays a successful safe

C-Player
will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one rack in a typical race to 7
avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
mixed results when playing safe
inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.

 

[justadub]

Excellent point. "B" bar table players are not "B" 9 foot table players; probably a C on 9 footers. A "B" 9 foot table player is probably an "A" on a bar table.

JoeyA (is still rated a 5 in the APA league- I don't know if that would be a C or a B)

You are an APA 5?????????????

Really?????????????

Currently?????????????????


I've got to rethink everything I think that I know about pool rankings....

(I'm an APA 5)

 

[JoeyA]

You are an APA 5?????????????

Really?????????????

Currently?????????????????


I've got to rethink everything I think that I know about pool rankings....

(I'm an APA 5)

Sounds like an even game to me. How much do you want to play for?

 

[Jaden]

I've seen one person do this and know of one other...

Hmmmmmm, Don't agree totally with you Johnny. The player must be practicing hours a day and competing often to become a B player. A year goes by quickly. A good practice routine for beginner is a must and competition is a bigger "must do" to apply what he has learned. Perhaps somebody can do it in a year. Never say never.

I taught my best friend how to play really from the first time he ever picked up a cue. He was playing, only doing what I was teaching him, five to ten hours a day five or six days a week. He became an A player in about 18 months.

I know of another kid who is now an open level player, and although I didn't see him get good, I saw him about 18 months after starting and he was a border line A player. He had a great mentor in one of Efren's best friends though and started at about 16 years old.

I could say that I was a B player within about a year of seriously playing, but I had been playing for nine or ten years with my father (a former road player from louisville, KY) before I started REALLY playing (12-15 hours a day for two years straight, 6 days a week). Maybe not all 12-15 hours was playing pool but a majority was.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Been sandbaggin much???

Excellent point. "B" bar table players are not "B" 9 foot table players; probably a C on 9 footers. A "B" 9 foot table player is probably an "A" on a bar table.

JoeyA (is still rated a 5 in the APA league- I don't know if that would be a C or a B)

You must not regularly play apa.... there's no way you're a legitimate "5"....

Jaden

 

[justadub]

Sounds like an even game to me. How much do you want to play for?

A beer.

(Not quite that naive. )

 

[sfleinen]

Sean:

I play on 9 foot tables at Amsterdam Billiards in NYC. A lot of very good players are in the various BCA leagues there. I have not scientifically tracked the league players vs the rating descriptions I quoted, but to me, they look about right.

Here are the descriptions for "D" and "C" from the same reference.

D- Player
will not run a rack
average run is about 3 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
rarely plays a successful safe

C-Player
will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one rack in a typical race to 7
avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
mixed results when playing safe
inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.

Hello Ron!

Apologies I didn't respond to this sooner. Just been busy here down in NYC's financial district with a couple really BIG network and firewall perimeter installations.

On to your point, I think JoeyA's response summarized it best what I was *trying* to say -- that a "B" barbox player is NOT (and does not equate to) a "B" 9-footer player. I would venture to guess (in fact, let me take that back -- I *know*) Amsterdam Billiard's description of a "B" player is correct for the skillset to do "those things" on a 9-footer. But my point is that the rest of the country's definition of a "B" player's skills is not correct, if we put that player on one of Amsterdam's 9-footers. I'll bet Amsterdam's "B" players will eat the other [rest of the county's barbox-based] "B" players ALIVE on a 9-footer. The point was that the definition of a "B" (or "A," or "C," or "D," or any class of player skillsets) is entirely founded upon the class of equipment that that player plays on.

FYI, I play on Tony Robles' Predator Open/Pro 10-ball tour on occasion (when I can get away from work, that is ). Ask Tony or Gail about me, if you get a chance. Or Steve Lipsky or Danny Barouty. I hope sometime to meet you at Amsterdam. It's been a very, very long time since I've been there (even with as much as I work in NYC; at the end of the work day, I just want to get the h*ll out of here and go home), but I'm itching to play there again.

-Sean

P.S.: "ronscuba" -- are you a scuba diver? PADI Open Water-certified, here, but it's been a very long time since I'd gone diving. I'm due!

 

[JoeyA]

You must not regularly play apa.... there's no way you're a legitimate "5"....

Jaden

"Jaden", it's been a while since I played in the APA.

A beer.

(Not quite that naive. )

This forum is full of sharpies. Then a beer it is.

 

[ronscuba]

Hello Ron!

Apologies I didn't respond to this sooner. Just been busy here down in NYC's financial district with a couple really BIG network and firewall perimeter installations.

On to your point, I think JoeyA's response summarized it best what I was *trying* to say -- that a "B" barbox player is NOT (and does not equate to) a "B" 9-footer player. I would venture to guess (in fact, let me take that back -- I *know*) Amsterdam Billiard's description of a "B" player is correct for the skillset to do "those things" on a 9-footer. But my point is that the rest of the country's definition of a "B" player's skills is not correct, if we put that player on one of Amsterdam's 9-footers. I'll bet Amsterdam's "B" players will eat the other [rest of the county's barbox-based] "B" players ALIVE on a 9-footer. The point was that the definition of a "B" (or "A," or "C," or "D," or any class of player skillsets) is entirely founded upon the class of equipment that that player plays on.

FYI, I play on Tony Robles' Predator Open/Pro 10-ball tour on occasion (when I can get away from work, that is ). Ask Tony or Gail about me, if you get a chance. Or Steve Lipsky or Danny Barouty. I hope sometime to meet you at Amsterdam. It's been a very, very long time since I've been there (even with as much as I work in NYC; at the end of the work day, I just want to get the h*ll out of here and go home), but I'm itching to play there again.

-Sean

P.S.: "ronscuba" -- are you a scuba diver? PADI Open Water-certified, here, but it's been a very long time since I'd gone diving. I'm due!

Hey Sean. You are right. Player ratings are valid depending on the table. That includes pocket size too. I notice the pro's at Amsterdam practice on the tight pocket tables.

I am at Amsterdam often. It would be cool to meet you, although I don't think you would want to play me. I'm just a beginner in the 8/9 ball league which uses a number HC system. My HC 7 is supposedly equal to a D+ or C- in the letter system which the intermediate 9 ball league uses.

I am a big scuba diver lucky to have dove many of top places in the world. However, pool has taken over as my main hobby. Probably because I can play pool whenever I want regardless of weather/season.

 

[alstl]

Easy to learn the game but at least for me, very difficult to continue to improve once I reached a certain level. Continuing to improve once you plateau is difficult.

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
I am at Amsterdam often. It would be cool to meet you, although I don't think you would want to play me.
[...]

Nonsense. I welcome the opportunity to play anyone, and if I'm in a position to offer assistance, I will. I think you can see from my posts here that I enjoy sharing information. "What's mine, is yours."

Let's see what the immediate future holds for me in NYC. PM me and let me know the days/times you're at Amsterdam.

-Sean