what criteria constitutes being a professional pool player?
- Thread starter schon267
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Well being a 'professional' doesn't mean it's what you get paid to do. I know people who are wretched salespeople, but continue to bring in 26k a year selling (or not selling as the case actually is) cell phones or cars, and will do for their entire lives. They aren't 'professionals', they're just scraping by. Same with pool if you want to determine 'pro' by guaging them against others income in the same industry. I'm sure the average income of the pros you are guaging these lesser known pros by is in the 30-50k a year range. So unless someone is quite successful in the tournaments and in money games, they aren't earning like a pro...
Now, as for SHOOTING like a pro, that's just a compliment. Although an annoying one, since suddenly that local guy who happens to be talented but doesn't want his wife to kill him for quitting his day job has to spot other guys who play just as much, 2 games on the rail in a race to 7.
Now, as for SHOOTING like a pro, that's just a compliment. Although an annoying one, since suddenly that local guy who happens to be talented but doesn't want his wife to kill him for quitting his day job has to spot other guys who play just as much, 2 games on the rail in a race to 7.
IMO, you are a pro;
If you can beat any of the current Pros
If your skill level is at the same level as a Pro
Even if you don't play in the huge Annual Pro events, but can compete with the PROS
If you gambling with the pros EVEN and win as often as you lose.
If you can beat any of the current Pros
If your skill level is at the same level as a Pro
Even if you don't play in the huge Annual Pro events, but can compete with the PROS
If you gambling with the pros EVEN and win as often as you lose.
Just because someone plays everyday for a living doesnt mean they are a pro or a great player, and unless they are a top player they are probably not making a good living. Everyone has a certain ability they can reach and most are far from pro level. I know people who have jobs and play once and a while but still play high amateur or maybe even low pro speed. I also know people who play more hours a week then most people work and they would have zero chance of ever beating a weak shortstop. It has been said numerous times but "pro" level play is based on consistantly beating, finishing high or breaking even with the current top players. Having a job and basing someones ability on how many hours they play has very little to do with their skill level.
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And prob important to include the fact that many folks who don't play pool 'well' still make very good scores...enabling them to have pool their primary source of income.
A clarification: there are two ways to define 'pro', generally only one applies in a situation.
1) Pro like in the dictionary, makes their living from their art.
2) Pro speed, plays at a 'pro' level. (C,B,A,Shortstop,Pro for instance)
These are not the same, and usually 2) is the one which should be more important for tournaments and such.
-s
1) Pro like in the dictionary, makes their living from their art.
2) Pro speed, plays at a 'pro' level. (C,B,A,Shortstop,Pro for instance)
These are not the same, and usually 2) is the one which should be more important for tournaments and such.
-s
Some professions have accrediting bodies that are responsible for designating someone as a "professional <whatever>" in that field for legal purposes. For example, I have an electrical engineering degree, I have a career in engineering, and it would be correct to refer to me as an engineering professional, yet I am not a "professional engineer" because I have not taken the professional engineering exam and been licensed as one. In fact, most engineers aren't professional engineers since it is only useful in a fraction of engineering jobs. Medical and legal professions have similar criteria and licenses.
Pool, on the other hand, does not. I can't really think of a situation where it would be important (in a legal sense) to designate someone as a professional pool player, so the only reason to start doing so would be as a business convenience, as in golf. There also doesn't seem to be a high enough demand for such a system to pay for the effort involved in maintaining it and doing whatever it would take to gain widespread acceptance, so I don't expect that to change.
Ultimately, that leaves it up to the pool community to decide what we mean when we call someone a professional pool player. In my opinion, a professional is someone who plays pool with the intent of earning their living doing it. If I want to talk about how well someone plays the game, I talk about skill levels or ranking. Naturally, there is a correlation between the two, so when someone talks about "playing like a pro", the implication is that they play very well. I think there is also an general understanding that when we talk about a "semi-pro", we mean an amateur that can (and does) compete in events that are attended by most of the pros.
In short, I think that playing a lights-out game of pool might be a prerequisite to being a successful pro, but it doesn't make you one.
Pool, on the other hand, does not. I can't really think of a situation where it would be important (in a legal sense) to designate someone as a professional pool player, so the only reason to start doing so would be as a business convenience, as in golf. There also doesn't seem to be a high enough demand for such a system to pay for the effort involved in maintaining it and doing whatever it would take to gain widespread acceptance, so I don't expect that to change.
Ultimately, that leaves it up to the pool community to decide what we mean when we call someone a professional pool player. In my opinion, a professional is someone who plays pool with the intent of earning their living doing it. If I want to talk about how well someone plays the game, I talk about skill levels or ranking. Naturally, there is a correlation between the two, so when someone talks about "playing like a pro", the implication is that they play very well. I think there is also an general understanding that when we talk about a "semi-pro", we mean an amateur that can (and does) compete in events that are attended by most of the pros.
In short, I think that playing a lights-out game of pool might be a prerequisite to being a successful pro, but it doesn't make you one.
Seriously, this is only your second post and it makes more sense than most of the seasoned veteran poster's.....lol.
Well, now ya got me wondering. There can't be more than a handful of players who can subsist solely from pool. Endorsements and perks would have to be fairly substantial,imho. I doubt no one can answer this, but approx. how many people actually live off pool?
Gee Black-Balled, are you actually contributing to a thread that YOU described as "being discussed ad nauseum"??? :wink:
Maniac (knows that the Main Forum of AZB would be darn slow on most days if we only discussed NEW topics related to pool)
Dorabelle hacked my account again!
thanks for all responses,
mixed bag for sure, I know the pool world is a weird one, and isn't like golf, or tennis for that matter with regards to what constitutes a pro. but there are a lot of players who only play pool for a living. some augment there income by giving lessons, some by gambling, all by tournys, some own rooms, most get sponsors of some sort, all this i earning them a living at there sport. this is a professional to me. as far as rankings, like I said before, didn't we just about lose the u.s open due to players forming an association, boycotting if needed to get something they thought was warrented? lets start with that long list of pros as far as a list to go by when determining who is a pro.
it also is confusing in the pool orld that as amateurs, we can get prise money, but still be an amateur. i.e. apa, valley, bca, acs leagues. so just saying if someone makes $ hes a pro, won't really work in our world. lol my main point with the thread was to complain if you will, that I get tired of being called a pro when I work harder then most people, and work 45 hrs a week, play league with my girl a couple nites, but yet play decent pool, and spent a lot of time learning, I'm old too lol I don't pay my bills from pool, to me, that makes me an amatuer. I would luv the people that have ever complained about me to come work 1 aug. day, outside in fla, lifting blocks all day in the 100% humidity, and 95 degree heat! lol
o.k thanks for the input people, ttl
mixed bag for sure, I know the pool world is a weird one, and isn't like golf, or tennis for that matter with regards to what constitutes a pro. but there are a lot of players who only play pool for a living. some augment there income by giving lessons, some by gambling, all by tournys, some own rooms, most get sponsors of some sort, all this i earning them a living at there sport. this is a professional to me. as far as rankings, like I said before, didn't we just about lose the u.s open due to players forming an association, boycotting if needed to get something they thought was warrented? lets start with that long list of pros as far as a list to go by when determining who is a pro.
it also is confusing in the pool orld that as amateurs, we can get prise money, but still be an amateur. i.e. apa, valley, bca, acs leagues. so just saying if someone makes $ hes a pro, won't really work in our world. lol my main point with the thread was to complain if you will, that I get tired of being called a pro when I work harder then most people, and work 45 hrs a week, play league with my girl a couple nites, but yet play decent pool, and spent a lot of time learning, I'm old too lol I don't pay my bills from pool, to me, that makes me an amatuer. I would luv the people that have ever complained about me to come work 1 aug. day, outside in fla, lifting blocks all day in the 100% humidity, and 95 degree heat! lol
o.k thanks for the input people, ttl
So true
Not a complete list but a great start...
Do you live at your "girlfriends" house (this weeks girl anyway)?
Do you owe money to every person you know from a pool hall?
Do you have no qualms whatsoever about lying, even to friends, even when it is probably easier to tell the truth?
Do you know people who will back you in money matches, even though you have dumped them without them knowing it several times in the past?
Do you look down your nose at all the people in the pool room who are more wealthy, happier, and stable then you, because you can pocket more balls in a row?
Finally, is your annual income so little that not only can't you support your family, nor simply a wife, but you can't afford to put a roof over your head and food in your mouth....
If most of these things are true, congratulations, you may already be a professional pool player!
Not a complete list but a great start...
Do you live at your "girlfriends" house (this weeks girl anyway)?
Do you owe money to every person you know from a pool hall?
Do you have no qualms whatsoever about lying, even to friends, even when it is probably easier to tell the truth?
Do you know people who will back you in money matches, even though you have dumped them without them knowing it several times in the past?
Do you look down your nose at all the people in the pool room who are more wealthy, happier, and stable then you, because you can pocket more balls in a row?
Finally, is your annual income so little that not only can't you support your family, nor simply a wife, but you can't afford to put a roof over your head and food in your mouth....
If most of these things are true, congratulations, you may already be a professional pool player!
Seriously...It is very hard being a "Pro" (whatever formal definition you wish to apply). Very very few people can maintain the level of play needed to derive a credible income for any length of time. Yes you can go to local competitions and prevail (until YOU either kill the event or the operator bars or handicaps you) for a while, but then you will have to move on to another area. As far as "PRO" events....very tough paying $500+ entry fees (with travel/hotel/food etc..added in) when you can possibly go "two and out". Sponsors are only interested in you when you are on the cover of the magazines. Take "Varner"...possibly the most recognized "face" in pool (if you are a "pool player). He has 8 (maybe 10) World Titles. Nick for all his accomplishments is on the road "hawking" his signature of cues/cases etc...much of the time. What you have to do as a "PRO" is to capitalize on your success while your briefly on top. There are No retirement funds/homes for old war horse players. If you don't open a room, get a long term association with pool products having your endorsement, set up a formal teaching program, start a "league" or some other pool related "thing", then when the next set of 25 year old players (who have not missed a ball in 2 years) come on the scene...."YOUR OUT". As I said once in another post...."If your daughter came home and said...Dad I'm in love with a poolplayer...your response might be...Honey couldn't you find a nice SERIAL KILLER to take up with". Of course there are exceptions to this but...there are very few.
I think too many people get hung up on the money aspect for the "pros". The reality is that no matter how much you make in your chosen profession you learn to make due with what you have. I feel that to be a pro in pool you would spend most of your time attempting to make money playing pool. With that said, some will be considerably better than others but that is no different than other chosen occupations. I would bet that most pros that are not at the upper echelon could not afford my bills that I have, but neither could a grocery clerk. Pros learn to adapt and normally have support systems that allow them to continue doing something they love to do for a living.
I am not going to complain about what the pros make nor would i complain about what a grocery clerk makes. People choose to do what they do. Some jobs are better than others. Thats life. Professional pool is an occupation where your only working for today with no long term benefits except maybe the top 1%.
I believe there is a pro speed and a professional player that have different meanings. So to sum up my view to answer this question---professional players make their money from pool.
I am not going to complain about what the pros make nor would i complain about what a grocery clerk makes. People choose to do what they do. Some jobs are better than others. Thats life. Professional pool is an occupation where your only working for today with no long term benefits except maybe the top 1%.
I believe there is a pro speed and a professional player that have different meanings. So to sum up my view to answer this question---professional players make their money from pool.