Dress Code for Gold Crown Billiards, Erie, PA
- Thread starter Paul Schofield
- Start date
Mr. Schofield, I take it back, I'll dress up to play on a clean table!
Old thread, but a good one. Here's my $0.02...
I think the dress code is a great idea. The truth is, the dress code serves as a discriminating filter to keep certain kinds of people out...
THUGS and TRASH.
It amazes me how short-sighted and foolish previously successful businessmen can be at times. When the times get tough, they become lax with their standards to appeal to a wider customer base. I haven't seen that work at all.
I've seen it put a few pool rooms out of business.
I know for a fact that more people stop patronizing a business because of the presence of thugs than the number of thugs who are permitted in. For example (not an actual figure), for every one thug becoming a regular, you are likely to lose 2 regular customers.
Those items banned on his list are all huge red flags. They as symbols of culture, behavior and more. The 30 - 50 year old crowd, you know - the people with MONEY and JOBS, often family people; when they see the sideways hats, the pants hanging all the way down to the thighs, the wife-beater shirts....they begin to search for somewhere else to be. They just don't want to be around that. They don't even want to SEE that stuff. They also know what comes with those symbols of a particular culture (drugs, crime and violence). People have a RIGHT to associate or not associate with particular types of people.
It's these people that spend money and support a business, not thugs. Chasing after thug money is extremely foolish. These hoodlum types don't spend much. It may appear on the surface that they are heavy drinkers and would use a lot of table time...but that's not the case. They don't spend a lot. At least not enough to cover the "expense" of them being there. Being that their presence runs off huge numbers of classier, more mainstream customers. They tend to loiter a whole lot more. Are they really spending that much? Just because you see them with a beer all the time? They might have two the whole night. Meanwhile, they take periodic breaks from pool playing to go out to the parking lot to take a hit (get high for those who don't know).
Discrimination, stereotyping, prejudice? Damn right! These punks absolutely do bring problems to pool rooms. They dirty the place up. They damage the equipment and pool room. They cause fights and violence. They are generally rude with no manners. They attract the cops, which is something no establishment with a liquor license wants. They are also an increased risk and liability.
Reputation? Hell yes. Word spreads like wildfire. Especially these days with Facebook and text messaging. Doesn't take but a few short communications amongst friends that a place is now thug-ville and they won't be back - ever. The thugs come and go. It's the good customers that once lost, are extremely difficult to win back. Once an establishment is tarnished...it's hard to get back the old reputation. Often, it requires the place close down for a while, and come back with a new name. Possibly renovations too. Convince people to give it another try.
I've seen it myself a few times. I speak from experience. I talked to literally a couple hundred hard core regulars (people who been regulars for over 15 years), and they all would say the same thing. They don't like the crowd that's now in the pool room. They moved on. Ultimately, the room's clientele is replaced by thugs. It is then that the owner gets the results of the experiment. And tragically, they find out that the thugs don't spend as much. Nor as they loyal or steady. Finally, the room closes down and that's that.
Some people in this thread took offense and responded in a bitter way. Probably because they dress the way the dress code in this thread prohibits. While these people may not be thugs, that's just too bad. If you don't want to be looked at like trash or a thug, don't dress like one.
What is the big deal anyway?
What exactly is so difficult or unreasonable about jeans, t-shirt and sneakers? That passes the dress code for this Gold Crown room. That's quite casual. It doesn't say no short-sleeves, mandatory collar, no jeans, no untucked...that would be a typical dress code. Like for an upscale club. Based on that, it's obvious that the owner of this pool room is trying to keep the scum out. Not burden the customers with a true dress code.
It gives him the ability to go up to a thug and tell them to leave. When they ask why - he can cite the dress code. No dress code, what will he say? These thugs aren't going to alter their dress and style in order to be able to patronize that pool room. They will just go elsewhere. Their clothes and their look is an integral part of their drug using, criminal lifestyle.
I think the dress code is a great idea. The truth is, the dress code serves as a discriminating filter to keep certain kinds of people out...
THUGS and TRASH.
It amazes me how short-sighted and foolish previously successful businessmen can be at times. When the times get tough, they become lax with their standards to appeal to a wider customer base. I haven't seen that work at all.
I've seen it put a few pool rooms out of business.
I know for a fact that more people stop patronizing a business because of the presence of thugs than the number of thugs who are permitted in. For example (not an actual figure), for every one thug becoming a regular, you are likely to lose 2 regular customers.
Those items banned on his list are all huge red flags. They as symbols of culture, behavior and more. The 30 - 50 year old crowd, you know - the people with MONEY and JOBS, often family people; when they see the sideways hats, the pants hanging all the way down to the thighs, the wife-beater shirts....they begin to search for somewhere else to be. They just don't want to be around that. They don't even want to SEE that stuff. They also know what comes with those symbols of a particular culture (drugs, crime and violence). People have a RIGHT to associate or not associate with particular types of people.
It's these people that spend money and support a business, not thugs. Chasing after thug money is extremely foolish. These hoodlum types don't spend much. It may appear on the surface that they are heavy drinkers and would use a lot of table time...but that's not the case. They don't spend a lot. At least not enough to cover the "expense" of them being there. Being that their presence runs off huge numbers of classier, more mainstream customers. They tend to loiter a whole lot more. Are they really spending that much? Just because you see them with a beer all the time? They might have two the whole night. Meanwhile, they take periodic breaks from pool playing to go out to the parking lot to take a hit (get high for those who don't know).
Discrimination, stereotyping, prejudice? Damn right! These punks absolutely do bring problems to pool rooms. They dirty the place up. They damage the equipment and pool room. They cause fights and violence. They are generally rude with no manners. They attract the cops, which is something no establishment with a liquor license wants. They are also an increased risk and liability.
Reputation? Hell yes. Word spreads like wildfire. Especially these days with Facebook and text messaging. Doesn't take but a few short communications amongst friends that a place is now thug-ville and they won't be back - ever. The thugs come and go. It's the good customers that once lost, are extremely difficult to win back. Once an establishment is tarnished...it's hard to get back the old reputation. Often, it requires the place close down for a while, and come back with a new name. Possibly renovations too. Convince people to give it another try.
I've seen it myself a few times. I speak from experience. I talked to literally a couple hundred hard core regulars (people who been regulars for over 15 years), and they all would say the same thing. They don't like the crowd that's now in the pool room. They moved on. Ultimately, the room's clientele is replaced by thugs. It is then that the owner gets the results of the experiment. And tragically, they find out that the thugs don't spend as much. Nor as they loyal or steady. Finally, the room closes down and that's that.
Some people in this thread took offense and responded in a bitter way. Probably because they dress the way the dress code in this thread prohibits. While these people may not be thugs, that's just too bad. If you don't want to be looked at like trash or a thug, don't dress like one.
What is the big deal anyway?
What exactly is so difficult or unreasonable about jeans, t-shirt and sneakers? That passes the dress code for this Gold Crown room. That's quite casual. It doesn't say no short-sleeves, mandatory collar, no jeans, no untucked...that would be a typical dress code. Like for an upscale club. Based on that, it's obvious that the owner of this pool room is trying to keep the scum out. Not burden the customers with a true dress code.
It gives him the ability to go up to a thug and tell them to leave. When they ask why - he can cite the dress code. No dress code, what will he say? These thugs aren't going to alter their dress and style in order to be able to patronize that pool room. They will just go elsewhere. Their clothes and their look is an integral part of their drug using, criminal lifestyle.
No work boots? What is this place aucshwitz?
I am pretty much a POS, but I have usually had short hair/ clean shaven/ decent clothes...You'd be amazed at what I have been able to do out in the world.
Oh...no work boots. Them'll get you in more trouble than a ponytail!
Okay. I was willing to graciously bow out of this thread by making the statement you quoted me on in your last post, but now I am going to call BS on your "so-called" 33 year old rules. Unless the person or persons who came up with these rules were very prophetic, they could not have possibly known 33 years ago that backwards(or sideways) hat-wearers, or "pants hanging down" were ever going to be an issue. Methinks that SOME of the rules were put in a bit later than your stated 33 years ago
.Damn Paul, quit using me as your punching bag and I'll leave this thread alone.
Maniac (so glad you accomplished your "mission")
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B.O.,
FWIW, I know MANY persons who may walk into one of my favorite poolrooms that may break several or more of Paul's listed infractions that do not even come close to being "THUGS and TRASH", and are certainly LESS judgemental than their accusers
!!!Maniac
I'm with you man, I too live the life of a sinner. I keep a #3 buzzcut and a trimmed daily, or every othe day stubble and have good hygiene. And NORMALLY I am decently dressed to go play.
But, I'm also a blue collar guy and wear boots to work. And sometimes I like to go shoot at lunch or make a date to play directly after work. Seems to discriminate against the working man as much as anyone else.
Just an observation anyway, I live nowhere near this establishment.
So much is lost using a keyboard over the internet. I don't have a punching bag. I am not aggressive at all and I really don't mean to insult anyone. Your thoughts and comments are encouraged and welcome, no matter what they are.
The dress code is ever evolving. It reads different today than it did 33 years ago. Pajama bottoms were not on the list in 1978.
workboots
The no work boots rule needs some refining.
How about no new clean boots that have never been and never will be worn on a job site?
or
Regulars are barred from wearing work boots but non regulars customers can wear them along with overalls and other work garb as long as they have their pockets full of cash from a hard week of hanging sheetrock or digging ditches.
-just a bit of sillyness :wink:
I personally see no problem with the dress code.
The no work boots rule needs some refining.
How about no new clean boots that have never been and never will be worn on a job site?
or
Regulars are barred from wearing work boots but non regulars customers can wear them along with overalls and other work garb as long as they have their pockets full of cash from a hard week of hanging sheetrock or digging ditches.
-just a bit of sillyness :wink:
I personally see no problem with the dress code.
Fair enough!!! You take care my friend, and good luck in any future endeavors!!!
Maniac
I feel that having a dress code is a very positive statement for a business such as yours. And I agree about having one but as best said by Dylan back in 1962 that “The Times They Are A-Changin'”. And so should a dress code. You are definitely commended and supported.
Gerry S
Gerry S
paul i assume your place is non smoking and non smoking because you have the dress code and because you state it is because of mutual respect for others and not because it is mandated by law..
if so i applaud you for having a respectable place and still be not so firm to bend according to the situation.
if so i applaud you for having a respectable place and still be not so firm to bend according to the situation.
Here's a concept....
Go home, take a shower, change into clean, decent and respectful clothes...and go out for a nice evening of billiards, drinks and whatever else.
Apparently too difficult. Can't stop at home? Bring a change of clothes or a pair of other shoes.
I remember one guy who I used to play league with in the 1990's. This guy was a nurse of some sort. Didn't have time to get home and change and be back for league. He would bring a change of clothes and change in the restroom. Took him about 5 minutes to change and put his stuff back in his car. He was more comfortable this way and had a better time. He didn't have to. This room didn't enforce any kind of dress code. He just wanted to because he felt more comfortable. However, others would wear their work clothes. Like one lady who would wear her nurse scrubs all night, and another guy who had his mechanic shirt and pants.
I wouldn't put work clothes into the same category as thug wear. These are working people, not trouble makers. And work clothes are not the eye-sore that gangster styles are. But people are just lazy. It's not that big of a deal to change. Besides, I personally do not like wearing my work clothes after work. I don't know why others do. When the shift is over, it's over. I don't want to think about work, and part of that is not wearing work clothing. I want to be me, and be free. It doesn't bother me that others wear work clothes, but it does bother some people. They want to be out and relax, they don't want to be reminded of their stressful days by being around work-dressed people.
Go home, take a shower, change into clean, decent and respectful clothes...and go out for a nice evening of billiards, drinks and whatever else.
Apparently too difficult. Can't stop at home? Bring a change of clothes or a pair of other shoes.
I remember one guy who I used to play league with in the 1990's. This guy was a nurse of some sort. Didn't have time to get home and change and be back for league. He would bring a change of clothes and change in the restroom. Took him about 5 minutes to change and put his stuff back in his car. He was more comfortable this way and had a better time. He didn't have to. This room didn't enforce any kind of dress code. He just wanted to because he felt more comfortable. However, others would wear their work clothes. Like one lady who would wear her nurse scrubs all night, and another guy who had his mechanic shirt and pants.
I wouldn't put work clothes into the same category as thug wear. These are working people, not trouble makers. And work clothes are not the eye-sore that gangster styles are. But people are just lazy. It's not that big of a deal to change. Besides, I personally do not like wearing my work clothes after work. I don't know why others do. When the shift is over, it's over. I don't want to think about work, and part of that is not wearing work clothing. I want to be me, and be free. It doesn't bother me that others wear work clothes, but it does bother some people. They want to be out and relax, they don't want to be reminded of their stressful days by being around work-dressed people.
Said the person with a picture of a woman's behind for an avatar......just an observation.
I have shot at this room. I am from Pittsburgh originally and my wife is from Erie.
I'm a doctor. I would say I dress decently and generally am not estimated to be trashy or riff-raff. But on most casual days out I don't meet that dress code. I ride and I wear bike leather and boots.
I ride. It's a lifestyle choice, not a doctor in a mid life crisis or playing biker. I build what I ride. In my garage. With tools not catalogs. Been like that since way before I became a doctor.
So, that being said, I have been turned away from hotels, motels, national parks, restaurants, and bars on various and sundry occasions over the past 25 years or so for one reason. I was wearing biker leather.
I once stopped at a restaurant/bar on my way home from work. This was in the late eighties. I stopped because I ran into one helluva downpour. It so happens that my mother was a regular there for over ten years. She knew the owner and all the others there.....so they knew me. I had meals at many of their homes when I was a boy. This was in my boyhood neighborhood. They more than knew me. Again, it was a major downpour, actually very dangerous to be on a bike. They turned me away. Wouldn't let me in the place.
I have played in this room in Erie. I liked it, I remember it to be a decent room, but I have not been there since about 1995 I think. I had forgotten about the dress code. This thread brought back the memory.
I feel confident that many people have an issue with one or two of the items in that dress code. Some will not. Generally speaking I think it's a good idea. But in view of the above I take offense at the part that affects me. It suggests there is something undesirable about me.
In my younger days I would have gotten fired up about it and probably shown up with a hundred or so to shoot pool, possibly even park a bike or ten on your carpet. I have ridden charity rides, poker runs, Veterans Day Parades, etc there in Erie and still know some righteous brothers there. If you live in Erie you probably know of some of the people I would be talking about. It's a small enough town. But I am older now and less volatile. As it stands I'll just say that part of your rules sucks. But it's your place. I'll respect yours....as long as you respect mine.
I'm a doctor. I would say I dress decently and generally am not estimated to be trashy or riff-raff. But on most casual days out I don't meet that dress code. I ride and I wear bike leather and boots.
I ride. It's a lifestyle choice, not a doctor in a mid life crisis or playing biker. I build what I ride. In my garage. With tools not catalogs. Been like that since way before I became a doctor.
So, that being said, I have been turned away from hotels, motels, national parks, restaurants, and bars on various and sundry occasions over the past 25 years or so for one reason. I was wearing biker leather.
I once stopped at a restaurant/bar on my way home from work. This was in the late eighties. I stopped because I ran into one helluva downpour. It so happens that my mother was a regular there for over ten years. She knew the owner and all the others there.....so they knew me. I had meals at many of their homes when I was a boy. This was in my boyhood neighborhood. They more than knew me. Again, it was a major downpour, actually very dangerous to be on a bike. They turned me away. Wouldn't let me in the place.
I have played in this room in Erie. I liked it, I remember it to be a decent room, but I have not been there since about 1995 I think. I had forgotten about the dress code. This thread brought back the memory.
I feel confident that many people have an issue with one or two of the items in that dress code. Some will not. Generally speaking I think it's a good idea. But in view of the above I take offense at the part that affects me. It suggests there is something undesirable about me.
In my younger days I would have gotten fired up about it and probably shown up with a hundred or so to shoot pool, possibly even park a bike or ten on your carpet. I have ridden charity rides, poker runs, Veterans Day Parades, etc there in Erie and still know some righteous brothers there. If you live in Erie you probably know of some of the people I would be talking about. It's a small enough town. But I am older now and less volatile. As it stands I'll just say that part of your rules sucks. But it's your place. I'll respect yours....as long as you respect mine.
People need to take responsibility for there own issues. Any problem i have with someone else is my problem not theirs. I am the only one responsible for how i feel not any bikers, thugs, gang members, or hat wearing backwards teenagers. Oh, and wow how quick some folks are to pass judgement on others these days, was it that bad in the 50's? Lol!! Sorry guess i dream of a day when a person won't be judged by the clothing, i mean we supposedly got passed the whole color of skin thing right? lol!! Clothing seems superficial compared to that. But to each his/her own.
Im not one to let an internet thread bother me but this thread something about it just feels like yuck!
Im not one to let an internet thread bother me but this thread something about it just feels like yuck!
I know some people are reading this post and thinking to themselves that the biker section of the dress code is right on.
I'm with the doc on this, maybe clean tables aren't everything.