Record cue ball break speed
- Thread starter Dirtbmw20
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Actually the apps are pretty accurate IMHO. They won't be off by some huge amount. Radar guns are pretty finicky. I'm guessing the higher break speeds are going to be in the 35-40 mph range. I regularly clock in at about 17-18 mph with my player.
I agree... the app is accurate as a novelty... I wouldnt use it for true measurements. I would say it could be off by as much as 1mph do to the un-scientific way of placing the cueball on the app table in the position you are breaking from on the real table.
That will never be 100 percent accurate and will always be slightly off and therefore yield inaccuate results.
Overall though. I love the app. it's a great tool to see how fast you are breaking, but ultimately its a novelty as it cannot produce an exact scientific measurement. But, if it says you broke at 24.56mph, you can basically say that break was 24mph.
Not quite yet....
My son hasn't broken the record yet, but just wait 'til he turns 12.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHyydXc7l0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=-daKjOLm0Kg&feature=endscreen
My son hasn't broken the record yet, but just wait 'til he turns 12.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHyydXc7l0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=-daKjOLm0Kg&feature=endscreen
TheThaiger
Banned
I don't study the break, nor do i practice it much - I'm too lazy, so just tend to leather the CB and hope for the best. I only get up to speeds around 22-23mph.
Anyway, Jeff has a break that seems weird to me and how I do it. Those slow mo shots are great for seeing what he actually does, the things not noticeable in real time. Firstly, the arm juts out to almost parallel after the back swing - it's almost like a tennis player hitting a forearm smash. It's like he's scooping the ball.
Secondly, there's virtually no follow through - when I break, the tip of my cue is practically on the spot, such is the extent of my follow through. Jeff's tip doesn't even go past the middle pocket, and practically stops forward motion after contacting the CB. His follow through is down rather than forward. I also don't get how you can hit the CB dead centre and end up bending the cue so much.
Actually the apps are pretty accurate IMHO. They won't be off by some huge amount. Radar guns are pretty finicky. I'm guessing the higher break speeds are going to be in the 35-40 mph range. I regularly clock in at about 17-18 mph with my player.
Code-wise, the app could be accurate (and from a coder's myopic point-of-view, his/her code is always "perfect," right?). But the issue is not with the code itself. It's with the equipment -- the cell phone itself:
1. That mass-produced cell phone's wafer-microphone with no emphasis or engineering on sound quality/capturing at all.
2. Audio compression -- all cell phones use it. Audio compression is a LOSSY compression (meaning, it loses information *by design* -- just like picture/image compression [e.g. JPEG, GIF]). A cell phone *has* to use compression to accommodate different sound levels in different acoustic environments -- from inside small quiet enclosures like a restroom, all the way on up to a concert hall or noisy street.
3. Placement of the cell phone in relation to the sound.
4. What you mentioned with inherent error in "placement of the cue ball" on the app, in preparation for the sound of the break itself, is huge. In the short distance on the table, a placement error of 1 inch can result in a significant discrepancy in the calculation of the speed.
5. Speed guns "flaky"? Sure, if they are not calibrated at regular intervals like they are supposed to. (And in our financially constrained times, it's not uncommon for speed guns to miss their periodic recalibrations, because the owner is pinching pennies.) We've all heard the stories about speeding tickets being thrown out in courtroom because the defendant "had the speed gun tested, and it measured the speed of an apple resting on the desk as 'moving at 20mph'." The fact is, while that may have happened long ago (even *that* is debatable), today, those are definitely urban legends.
-Sean
I agree my top speed is 27mph with the app.
In terms of true accuracy, I would pick a radar gun over a sound app if both were used properly. However, I think the sound app is easier to use for most people in a correct manner.
Just through personal experience, I've seen huge variances with people who use radar guns for measuring speed. My experience is not through pool, but with baseball pitching, so maybe this doesn't apply to pool as accurately. I've seen radar guns measuring baseball pitches fluctuate wildly, which makes me think the users of the radar guns either didn't know how to use them correctly or that they are hard to use properly.
In any case, I really do believe the sound apps are accurate as long as the measurement from the cueball to the rack is accurate. Obviously the speed of sound comes in to play as well, but a few millimeters won't make a huge difference.
Just through personal experience, I've seen huge variances with people who use radar guns for measuring speed. My experience is not through pool, but with baseball pitching, so maybe this doesn't apply to pool as accurately. I've seen radar guns measuring baseball pitches fluctuate wildly, which makes me think the users of the radar guns either didn't know how to use them correctly or that they are hard to use properly.
In any case, I really do believe the sound apps are accurate as long as the measurement from the cueball to the rack is accurate. Obviously the speed of sound comes in to play as well, but a few millimeters won't make a huge difference.
I don't know much about the iPhone app that calculates break speed, but I do develop iPhone applications. I believe it would be possible to get a very accurate reading. The audio libraries available to the iPhone let you get extremely close to the hardware, so any discrepancy due to compression or computation should be quite negligible, for sure within 1000th of a second. So the next thing to deal with is the cue-ball placement. Instead of guessing by positioning the cueball on the app with your finger, a better method would be to measure the actual distance between the cueball and headball, and enter that exact distance. The next thing would be to place the phone in a position that is exactly equidistant from the cueball and headball, again using a measuring device to make this exact. Beyond that, so long as the balls are regulation size, no one is breaking within earshot, and the speed of sound is constant you should get a very accurate reading.
[edit] I suppose the app lets you enter the size of the table, and the diamond positions are marked with a grid so you could get a quite accurate estimate on cueball position by placing it on a grid crosshair. The position of the phone probably won't make a big enough difference to matter. As sound travels 13,397.2441 inches per second (at sea level), being an inch off would adjust the speed calculation by about 0.000075 seconds. Being 12 inches off would adjust it about 0.0009 seconds.
you should get a very accurate reading.[edit] I suppose the app lets you enter the size of the table, and the diamond positions are marked with a grid so you could get a quite accurate estimate on cueball position by placing it on a grid crosshair. The position of the phone probably won't make a big enough difference to matter. As sound travels 13,397.2441 inches per second (at sea level), being an inch off would adjust the speed calculation by about 0.000075 seconds. Being 12 inches off would adjust it about 0.0009 seconds.
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Samiel:
This is a reasonable response. Yes, the break-speed-via-sound apps indeed are easier to use, no question. And yes, an inexperienced person behind a radar gun *will* give inaccurate results -- but that's no fault of the equipment. Contrary to popular belief, radar guns are *NOT* "just point and shoot." Your baseball experience is valuable, because you yourself know that you have to know *where* to point the radar gun, such that the motion is correct in regards to measuring it.
The part bolded above, though, is questionable. Inaccurate cue ball placement of a few millimeters on the app itself will result in a magnified error when compared to the actual placement of the cue ball on the pool table. This can easily translate to significant speed measurement error, because the gap crossed by the cue ball is misunderstood by the app. Unfortunately, there's no way on that little cell phone screen to fix this, because it's basically vulnerable to parallax error on the part of the user using the app -- how accurate is he/she in dragging the cue ball where it actually is on the pool table? Radar guns, when properly pointed, are not vulnerable to this, because they measure actual motion. They're not trying to "calculate" speed based on the time interval between two sounds (heard through lossy audio compression through that wafer-microphone) according to what the user "says" where the cue ball is on the table.
-Sean
yes there is a blackberry version
I was messing around with the break-speed app on my iPhone the other day, and I found that an inch on a 9 foot table nets you an extra 1 MPH.
You have to be very accurate in placing the cueball, and locating it correctly on the break-speed app.
In fact the instructions mention this and suggest that you break from the spot. As there is a option to have the app automatically place the cue ball there.
I suppose that is more accurate then doing it by hand.
You have to be very accurate in placing the cueball, and locating it correctly on the break-speed app.
In fact the instructions mention this and suggest that you break from the spot. As there is a option to have the app automatically place the cue ball there.
I suppose that is more accurate then doing it by hand.
You calling me a liar?!?!?!??!!!!!!!!!! (Just Kidding
)I agree that it can definitely be manipulated. The poster that sent a link the Dechaine breaking should satisfy the OP in his bet. The video shows them lay the phone down and pick it up without any fabrication to the results, IIRC.
What is sad is that people feel the need to lie to complete strangers on the internet, lol. My 31mph (actually 30.47, I looked at it after I posted) was one of only two I've had over 28 and it resulted in me hurting my back for about two weeks.
I much prefer to stay around 22mph and control the cue ball. My "ramped up" power is around 26mph, but it is not necessary and I don't have the same control.
As quadrary mentioned, there is a version for the Blackberry. I have it on mine and it works great. You can download right from their website, I think it's mybreakspeedapp.com but you can Google it. Most people aren't sloppy enough with their CB placement to cause massive speed errors, so don't worry about the negativity. Some people are just contrary.
JC
Coos Cues
I used break speed pro in front of my speaker on that break and it came out 36.73 MPH for an oversized 8 table and 35.07 for an 8 foot. 40.07 MPH for a nine foot table which that doesn't look like to me but I could be wrong. Android users go ahead and try the same thing and see what results you get. My results were consistent within a tenth of a mile an hour no matter how many times I replayed it.
I tried it a few times and got a bunch of different results. 7 mph, 9 mph, 22 mph, and a couple 31.9. 31.9 sounds more accurate. I'd bet my house it's closer to 30 than 40. The cueball flying in the air and all the excess body movement don't equate to more speed. I can hit the lights with a medium speed 24 mph break. If you don't hit center ball you will lose 3-5 mph for sure.
My buddy can hit 30+ almost every time but he can only keep it on the table about 10% of the time. He's built like an NFL linebacker though.
His motion is more like a wrist shot in racket ball. The elbow leads through the shot first, causing the loosley held hand/wrist to snap through. Try it standing up. It is easy to do. The hard part is getting accurate enough to control the CB.
Edit to add: I think SVB performs a mini version of this shot. Shanes elbow comes to his side then his hand snaps through. It's not as sidearm though.
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i have a friend of mine that looks like he breaks at that speed, i will video his break and show on here. I have that break app too and keep forgetting to try it lol
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