My video of my stroke with 3 different wrist positions. Need your analysis

Hi peoples,

I have found 3 wrist positions that I describe how they feel to me. I would
like you to analyze everything you see but more importantly I would like you to give me some insight on the 3 different wrist positions that I showed you.

Thanks for your time and Happy Holidays,

~Tony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnINqqtI1ng&feature=channel_video_title

I'm still mesmerized by your threads:D

I also learned a new pool term - "takeback":)

I have been experimenting with different wrist actions for the past 30 years, almost every other week. If I had one thing I could change about my pool game, it would be that I would have found something that worked 30 years ago and that I would have had been using that same one during all those years. I've basically wasted a large part of my life, messing around with the grip, instead of having the same one all that time. Incredibly stupid of me:embarrassed2:
 
I'm still mesmerized by your threads:D

I also learned a new pool term - "takeback":)

I have been experimenting with different wrist actions for the past 30 years, almost every other week. If I had one thing I could change about my pool game, it would be that I would have found something that worked 30 years ago and that I would have had been using that same one during all those years. I've basically wasted a large part of my life, messing around with the grip, instead of having the same one all that time. Incredibly stupid of me:embarrassed2:

Thanks man.. I only wear that shirt once a year in october ;)

I am thinking when I get my keith josey cue that I hope to play with for many years that I am going to stick with the 3rd wrist position I showed you . but with just a minor bend in the wrist. I feel it is the most comfortable on all shots.. Thanks for your time,

As far as the term take back,Well nothing is written in stone lol...
~Tony
 
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Wrist action should be used just then, if it happens really naturally. To create wrist-action usualy causes very big problems. Furthermore there is no shot where wrist-action really gives you an advantage.

Keep it simple!
 
Wrist action should be used just then, if it happens really naturally. To create wrist-action usualy causes very big problems. Furthermore there is no shot where wrist-action really gives you an advantage.

Keep it simple!

Hey thanks for your response... I don't think I said wrist action because I am not moving my wrist through my start to finish stroke. I chose to use the words wrist position. But if I used the words wrist action I am sorry.. Thanks again for your time..
 
Tony

I would suggest using the wrist position that feels the most comfortable and natural to you.

You are correct, everyone is built differently, which is why you see such individual variation in players stance and stroke.

You have a great holiday too.

Hi peoples,

I have found 3 wrist positions that I describe how they feel to me. I would
like you to analyze everything you see but more importantly I would like you to give me some insight on the 3 different wrist positions that I showed you.

Thanks for your time and Happy Holidays,

~Tony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnINqqtI1ng&feature=channel_video_title
 
@Tony,

sorry- my bad- CaliRed used the word *Wrist Action*-just had it in my head after readin the postings here :)

keep shooting,

Ingo
 
I think you may be Cliff Joyner in disguise but anyway...

I think you are on to something here. It didn't sound to me like you are concerned with wrist action as some have mentioned but simply your grip hand position. There's a lot of good information on this site regarding the grip hand. Check out this thread over in the "Ask The Instructor" Forum:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=253830

Personally, I switched to a more curled wrist position because it just proved to be more accurate. I don't curl it as much as you describe in your video. I've played around with several different grips and that one was by far the most accurate. If I were to describe my wrist I would say that the back of my hand (side opposite of your palm) is aligned perfectly straight with my forearm. If you watch Johnny Archer, his grip is sort of like this (maybe even curled more). I've even noticed that SVB appears to hold his cue this way as well.

However you do it - it has to be comfortable. Otherwise, you will look down and discover that your grip has changed on you.

Good luck.
 
Hi peoples,

I have found 3 wrist positions that I describe how they feel to me. I would
like you to analyze everything you see but more importantly I would like you to give me some insight on the 3 different wrist positions that I showed you.

Thanks for your time and Happy Holidays,

~Tony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnINqqtI1ng&feature=channel_video_title
Ever considered a pool lesson?
First off, you may get more and better responses if you post in the "Ask the Instructor" area. Better still, get an actual lesson from an instructor.
Regarding your wrist. The more muscles used in "wrist action" the more ways those muscles can be mis-used. The straight, limp wrist is considered best by most teachers.
Your problem may have more to with your other basics besides wrist position. You don't really get down on the shot. Do you have a bad back? Watch the pros. Most get their chin pretty close to the cue. It appears that you may be gripping your cue too far forward (not easy to tell from your video), - this can make any kind of grip and wrist action uncomfortable and ineffective. You also had head motion on some of your shots.
Think of learning pool as you might think of learning to drive. Would you take a driving lesson over the phone or by email? No, the best way to learn to drive is with a qualified driving instructor, in a car. I think any good pool instructor can straighten you out rather easily IN PERSON, at a pool table.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
I don't think I said wrist action because I am not moving my wrist through my start to finish stroke. I chose to use the words wrist position. But if I used the words wrist action I am sorry.. Thanks again for your time..

@Tony,

sorry- my bad- CaliRed used the word *Wrist Action*-just had it in my head after readin the postings here :)

keep shooting,

Ingo

It didn't sound to me like you are concerned with wrist action as some have mentioned

SORRY FOR DROPPING THE WORD "WRIST ACTION":D IT WAS LATE!

I was still trying to adjust from the exposure to the shirt.:D

Please substitute all instances of "action" with "position"

I hope I have not scarred anyone permanently with my unfortunate choice of words.
 
Wrist action should be used just then, if it happens really naturally. To create wrist-action usualy causes very big problems. Furthermore there is no shot where wrist-action really gives you an advantage.

Keep it simple!

For me, a little wrist can go a long way. Gives me extra power on the break without having to use my body to lunge so much.
 
"If you're thinking, you're stinking!" Wise words from Tom McMonagle.

Relaxed wrist is the best..IMHO.. Like another poster said, leave as many muscles out of the stroke as possible..

What type of batteries does your shirt take?? Just curious?? ;)
 
i can contribute a lot of my misses due to my wrist and grip, i believe and it makes for a inconstant stroke for me and some easy misses. Im now trying to get one stroke,one grip for all shots on a wide open shot.
 
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Good info here.....

Ever considered a pool lesson?
First off, you may get more and better responses if you post in the "Ask the Instructor" area. Better still, get an actual lesson from an instructor.
Regarding your wrist. The more muscles used in "wrist action" the more ways those muscles can be mis-used. The straight, limp wrist is considered best by most teachers.
Your problem may have more to with your other basics besides wrist position. You don't really get down on the shot. Do you have a bad back? Watch the pros. Most get their chin pretty close to the cue. It appears that you may be gripping your cue too far forward (not easy to tell from your video), - this can make any kind of grip and wrist action uncomfortable and ineffective. You also had head motion on some of your shots.
Think of learning pool as you might think of learning to drive. Would you take a driving lesson over the phone or by email? No, the best way to learn to drive is with a qualified driving instructor, in a car. I think any good pool instructor can straighten you out rather easily IN PERSON, at a pool table.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

Good advice from Donny here.

Also, I think it's great you're utilizing video to help you improve. I spent about 10 years away from the game before picking it up again a couple years back when my son started playing. I began using video with him so he could observe himself and see what I was seeing, and then started using it myself. Really wish I'd had access to this when I was younger. It would have greatly reduced the time and effort it takes to work through slumps, problems with certain shots, etc. I've found that most problems I've had in the past were caused by minor problems in stance or stroke.

All that being said, I confess I stopped watching your video after about 1:30. IMO, you're thinking WAY too much about 1 individual part of your stroke. I used to play a lot of pool with a local golf pro, and he said when a student came to him and asked whether he should push with his right hand or pull with his left on the drive, that guy's game was screwed.

Find a stance that offers solid balance and allows your arm, hand and cue to swing in a straight line. Find a nice rhythm between your eyes and your stroke, lock in, keep your head and body still and follow straight through. I NEVER think about my wrist, but I do sometimes think about keeping my hand fairly loose. One thing that has helped me when I feel "off" is to put my cue tip on the table where it should end on the follow through and work my way backwards into the stance. In this way I can be sure I maintain my balance all the way to the end of the stroke. Use the video to diagnose the cause only when you have problems in your game. You'll learn what causes you to do certain things (If I get unintended left english on a shot, I'm forcing my stroke by leaning to the right, etc.).

Don't over-think the mechanics. This game is hard enough as it is. Good luck!
 
Good video my friend.
The questions you have asked, I too have been thinking about plus add another 3 wrist positions and hand actions to the mix.
I have come to some conclusions, right or wrong.

The 1st grip you show, I find it works best on power shots in straight line but doesn’t work well on draw, more of a stop shot hold.
Deadly accurate but no real feel or finesse.
If I try to slow down the stroke it loses accuracy and same thing happens it is hard to keep straight.
I’m much lower on the shot than you are and it makes it easier.
When I try to play with this hold I position my elbow, shoulder and hand in such a way that they cannot go anymore right.
This way I can make a mistake only by pulling the cue towards my body. Much easier when you miss to one side only.

The 2nd grip, interesting thing about this grip is that you can push your hand out which brings the elbow more towards the body creating a plane that allows stroking in a straight line with ease.
However, like you said cannot go back too much.
I experimented with this hold and rejected it.
I like the elbow in this position but not the wrist, no real touch.

The 3rd grip is the most accurate, Efren has this type of a hold.
I believe it is easier for you to cue like this because your hand cannot physically go anymore right.
You have created a plane and you are staying on it.
The cue rests on your fingers and isn’t getting pushed left or right.
The danger is that the bend in your wrist can change.
This stroke is great for soft touch, draw. Not so good on follow shots, rail shots, jacked up shots.
I find you can guide the cue the longest on a straight line with this grip.

I have 2 grips that I have been experimenting with:
For straight follow shots, rails shots, any shot requiring perfect straightness where cueing is the most important and the CB doesn’t have to do anything fancy, so shots with no English.
I like to hold the cue by wrapping my middle finger around the cue.
2 back fingers are off the cue.
Thumb and index pointing down, the tops of index and thumb hold the cue from side movement and the top of this contraption presses slightly down on the cue.
This completely immobilized the wrist, without chocking the cue.

For draw and finesse shots, it is kind of like your 3rd grip but much less bend.
Once again for me the middle finger is the key, I use it to stabilize my wrist from side movement. There is some support from ring finger, pinky is off .
The thumb points towards the body somewhat, not down.
The index finger is sort of on and off the cue.
If you watch the index finger of Archer or Immonen it is sort of like that.
The cue delivery is very level with this grip and follow through is the greatest.
Another benefit is that if you want you can start your stroke very slow and accelerate at your leisure.

Anyway, it’s just me.

The wrist position and holds are largely determined by the alignment of the other parts of your body.
Some grips work better with certain stances.
Relationship between shoulder, elbow, hand dictates the most what type of grip will be effective for you.

Just another player trying to figure what works. :)

Good Luck!
 
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I think you may be Cliff Joyner in disguise but anyway...

I think you are on to something here. It didn't sound to me like you are concerned with wrist action as some have mentioned but simply your grip hand position. There's a lot of good information on this site regarding the grip hand. Check out this thread over in the "Ask The Instructor" Forum:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=253830

Personally, I switched to a more curled wrist position because it just proved to be more accurate. I don't curl it as much as you describe in your video. I've played around with several different grips and that one was by far the most accurate. If I were to describe my wrist I would say that the back of my hand (side opposite of your palm) is aligned perfectly straight with my forearm. If you watch Johnny Archer, his grip is sort of like this (maybe even curled more). I've even noticed that SVB appears to hold his cue this way as well.

However you do it - it has to be comfortable. Otherwise, you will look down and discover that your grip has changed on you.

Good luck.

Thanks, Yeah I also like your grip allot for myself. So far I to am just curling it slightly and it feels the best so far.

I wonder if cliff Joyner has any Turkish blood in him lol..
 
@Tony,

sorry- my bad- CaliRed used the word *Wrist Action*-just had it in my head after readin the postings here :)

keep shooting,

Ingo

Thanks, I hope to hear from you in the future Ratta.. I attained information from you and others so I was happy to see you reply.
 
Ever considered a pool lesson?
First off, you may get more and better responses if you post in the "Ask the Instructor" area. Better still, get an actual lesson from an instructor.
Regarding your wrist. The more muscles used in "wrist action" the more ways those muscles can be mis-used. The straight, limp wrist is considered best by most teachers.
Your problem may have more to with your other basics besides wrist position. You don't really get down on the shot. Do you have a bad back? Watch the pros. Most get their chin pretty close to the cue. It appears that you may be gripping your cue too far forward (not easy to tell from your video), - this can make any kind of grip and wrist action uncomfortable and ineffective. You also had head motion on some of your shots.
Think of learning pool as you might think of learning to drive. Would you take a driving lesson over the phone or by email? No, the best way to learn to drive is with a qualified driving instructor, in a car. I think any good pool instructor can straighten you out rather easily IN PERSON, at a pool table.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

Thanks for your thoughts Donny.. Over the years I find it better for lining up the shot to not get so low. Also in the beginning of my video you are right I was holding the butt to high up but that was because I thought I wasn't in the picture and I was only wanting to show you the 90 degree arm and the wrist. But later in the video and yes it was hard to tell but that was my correct placement for the right hand on the butt. I would take lessons in a heart beat but I cannot afford them at this time and I figured you people are very nice and if my recording isn't good enough for people to give some good information about it then I will try again in the future for a better video. Thanks again for your time and thoughts,

~Tony
 
SORRY FOR DROPPING THE WORD "WRIST ACTION":D IT WAS LATE!

I was still trying to adjust from the exposure to the shirt.:D

Please substitute all instances of "action" with "position"

I hope I have not scarred anyone permanently with my unfortunate choice of words.

It's casual man lol... I am happy that you took the time to respond. Have a good one..
 
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