Straight Stroke vs. Accurate Aiming

Tennesseejoe said:
There have been many discussions of various aiming systems and many theories of stroking for accuracy. After many years of experimenting to find which is most beneficial to me, I have reached a conclusion. A conclusion which may be temporary, as most of us have changed our beliefs on both subjects.

My conclusion is that a straight and repeatable stroke is more important to develop. If you have an excellent stroke, the aiming system will be much easier to develop because half of the equation is consistent.

Your thoughts please.
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Many people think a good stroke is to be straight; they are wrong, truthfully in my opinion you never can have none straight stroke, see for your self, try it when you are down on a shot with your bridge lined up and ready to fire, try to have none straight, you will only be changing your tip contact only (your aim is fixed and hard to change then too). Stroke definition is 1-follow through, 2- is hitting the cue using cue weight only with follow through all the way, with your butt just resting on your hand or two or three fingers with loose wrist (that is why the butt has wrapping and now are making rubber grip hands so cue does not slide from your hand); this way your english transfer from tip to cue is most efficient, and CB does what is expected
 
i recently diagnosed my mechanics as to why i would sometimes miss shots and why i have a bit of trouble shooting off the rail sometimes. I figured out it all came down to my back hand. I think i had my wrist slightly bent at a 20-30 degree angle which was keeping me from being really consistent with my stroke. I changed everything with my back hand like my wrist,hand,grip,follow through and it has made a big difference in my play, i think anyway.
 
champ2107 said:
i recently diagnosed my mechanics as to why i would sometimes miss shots and why i have a bit of trouble shooting off the rail sometimes. I figured out it all came down to my back hand. I think i had my wrist slightly bent at a 20-30 degree angle which was keeping me from being really consistent with my stroke. I changed everything with my back hand like my wrist,hand,grip,follow through and it has made a big difference in my play, i think anyway.
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Possibly helpped lots of shots, but not all, especially the long ones. Try looking at CB exact tip contact point desired last before your fire on all shots, that guarantees 100% tip alignment
 
For a newbie, a straight stroke is a must. They learn where to hit balls as they gain experience. For an advanced player, an incorrect aiming alignment can change their stroke to pocket balls.

After mastering the basics, a player can make balls standing on their head. We adapt for incorrect alignments and steer the stick or swoop our arms and wrists. My biggest challenge is lining up correctly so my pool brain doesn't take over mid-stroke to compensate for my shortcomings.

Best,
Mike
 
well once i changed my back hand, all i did was fire in straight in shots at all distances and off the rail for practice until i felt comfortable shooting with the adjustment. It has worked wonders with my consistency on all shots.
 
Neil said:
There are four requirements to be able to consistently make balls.

1. You must have a straight stroke. If your stroke isn't consistently straight, your results will be inconsistent.

2. You must be properly aligned over the cue. If you aren't looking down the line of the cue correctly, your results will vary on different shots, and you will be inconsistent. While this is a part of aiming, it is not aiming in and of itself.

3. You must be able to aim correctly for all types of shots. If you don't know what your target is, you aren't very likely to hit it no matter how straight your stroke is.

4. You must be able to accurately hit the cb where you want to. If you can't, you will be putting unwanted english on the cb. That means that you will not be compensating for the squirt you will be getting, and your aim will be off.

Take away any one of the four, and you have a problem with being consistent.
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No more words needed, agree 100 %
lg
Ingo
 
A straight stoke is a third of the equation, which has been said. Learning where to aim is IMHO the easier part.

The address is one of the BIG culprits in this game. A good analogy is this >>> Lackadaisically aiming a rifle, will keep you from hitting the target.
 
Neil said:
Well, I have to disagree here. First off, the shot does not require anymore follow through than the distance of the compression of the tip. Now, we, as humans, do require follow through. But, that is soley to keep a straight stroke. Follow through does zero for the actual shot.

All the other stuff you mentioned, think about it. All that, including how hard you grip the cue, is just to enable you as a human to stroke it straight. If you took a robot to make the shot, it wouldn't matter if it followed through or gripped the butt tightly. The only thing that would matter would be if the cue went straight on line.
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I have to answer you like other post, you have not gotten there yet!

Follow through is essential in making the cue go as intended, and to allow the tip to stay in contact a bit longer to develop that english the more you follow the better,

Stroking the CB with loose wrist and only cue weight doing the job allows 1st more english on CB, and natural flow of stroke, and of course much better speed control. True, if you just follow through but tight grip, then your mussels doing the job, and you ignored the weight of cue completely, and will have poor control over that. I will be highly surprised if you can do power draw with tight grip..
 
naji said:
Follow through is essential in making the cue go as intended, and to allow the tip to stay in contact a bit longer to develop that english the more you follow the better,

Stroking the CB with loose wrist and only cue weight doing the job allows 1st more english on CB
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Follow through is a symptom of a good stroke, not the cause. Similarly, a light-cradle grip does not directly help create more English. It just allows you to generate a better stroke. Also, it is not possible to prolong contact between the cue tip and CB with a typical (and legal) stroke, even if it seem like you can. For more info on this and related topics, see:

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Follow through is a symptom of a good stroke, not the cause. Similarly, a light-cradle grip does not directly help create more English. It just allows you to generate a better stroke. Also, it is not possible to prolong contact between the cue tip and CB with a typical (and legal) stroke, even if it seem like you can. For more info on this and related topics, see:

Regards,
Dave
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Thanks Dr. are you saying you can draw the cue ball as much with a tight grip as in a loose grip and loose wrist?
Another topic, are we in agreement that if you go down correctly, aim correct, and follow through, then worst case is the tip might hit wrong spot on CB and cause deflection or swerve, if you hold cue at pivet point, then no matter how you stroke it you will have good chance of making the ball if you do not stun it?
 
Masayoshi said:
You are mistaking a short stroke with no stroke. With stroke, short or long, accuracy is what matters. Don't get it twisted, both Mike Sigel and Luther Lassiter had GREAT strokes.

The difference between them and a normal person is stroke accuracy, not aiming (although to be honest, their aiming is probably better too, but that's beside the point).

Also, why are you quoting Fast Larry of all people?
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Because Fast Larry studies the pros. You should talk to him sometime.

I recently shortened my backswing considerably and my accuracy improved dramatically - with no other changes. I hold the cue very lightly but follow through straighter than I used too because with my old long stroke there was too much room for movement that was not straight back and forth. Thank you Fast Larry - I always think of his Luther Lassiter story when I see people shoot with a short backstroke.

Most notably is Alex Pagulyan. Also Rodney Morris. They have long bridges but their strokes don't come back far.
 
naji said:
Thanks Dr. are you saying you can draw the cue ball as much with a tight grip as in a loose grip and loose wrist?
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Absolutely not. A tight grips creates tension which inhibits smooth acceleration. A light-cradle grip is one of the foundations of good draw shot technique.

naji said:
Another topic, are we in agreement that if you go down correctly, aim correct, and follow through, then worst case is the tip might hit wrong spot on CB and cause deflection or swerve, if you hold cue at pivet point, then no matter how you stroke it you will have good chance of making the ball if you do not stun it?
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... only for firm speed and/or short distance shots, where swerve is not a significant factor. Throw can also "throw" things off. Bridging at the cue's natural pivot length and using BHE (or using swooping stroke) will not work for all types of shots. For more info, see:

Regards,
Dave
 
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Neil said:
Dave, I think you might be causing a little confusion on here with that statement.
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I can see that. Grip doesn't matter, but it does.

Neil said:
Same with the other scenarios mentioned, the grip has nothing to do with the shot itself. If a robot shot it, it wouldn't matter if the robot held the cue loose, or tightly.
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Actually, it could matter with a robot. With a really tight robot grip, the weight of the robot "arm" effectively adds to the cue weight, and that could have some interesting side effects (e.g., possible double hits at large tip offsets). Otherwise, I agree with your sentiment.

Neil said:
However, us people do see a difference in the stroke with a tight or loose grip because of the very thing you mentioned- tension. That tension will cause us to veer offline from a straight stroke, and also change our acceleration or speed of the shot.
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I agree 100%! I would also add "lose tip contact point height accuracy" to your list.

Regards,
Dave
 
Neil said:
Dave, I think you might be causing a little confusion on here with that statement. Same with the other scenarios mentioned, the grip has nothing to do with the shot itself. If a robot shot it, it wouldn't matter if the robot held the cue loose, or tightly.

However, us people do see a difference in the stroke with a tight or loose grip because of the very thing you mentioned- tension. That tension will cause us to veer offline from a straight stroke, and also change our acceleration or speed of the shot.
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Both you and Dr. Dave don't have it correct. ONLY with a light grip can you get the wrist action to get more speed on the follow-through.
 
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