PAY OR PLAY Introducing a new tournament format, need feedback

F

FASTEJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This format is going to be used for the PAY OR PLAY ONE POCKET TOURNAMENT and the PAY OR PLAY 10 BALL TOURNAMENT during the USBTC in Reno Feb 12th-19th

The PAY OR PLAY format is one that puts the power in the players hands when it comes to deciding how much they are willing to pay for a chance to win a big payout. It is simple and complicated at the same time when it comes to describing how the format works. With your feedback I will be editing this first post often and hopefully it will be clear and understandable to everyone how this format works. Thank you in advance for your feedback!


PAY OR PLAY Tournament Format
This format is a multi-entry/multi-rebuy format. It uses a single elimination bracket. Size of the bracket depends on number of tables available, amount of time available, and the demand for entry.
A player can buy in as many times as they want until the bracket is full.
A player can buy their way all the way up to the Round of 32
The Level 1 entry fee is usually between $1-$10 dollars and doubles every Level until the Round of 32
Players can buy an entry of their choice at any Level and draw at random for their placement in the bracket.
Players are also allowed to enter in these manners:
1. They can choose who their opponent is in the first match if both players agree, and the winner will draw at random for their place in the bracket. The two players can split the entry fee for the level they want, or they can agree that the loser will pay for the entry fee.
2. Players can assemble their own mini tournament, numbering from 4,8,16,32 players and so on. Each player will pay their share of the entry fee and the winner will get entry at the Level determined by the group and draw at random for their place in the bracket.
These two entry methods is truly what makes this format unique, besides the multi entry/rebuy.

Look at the format below as an example
These are the initial parameters for the PAY OR PLAY ONE POCKET in Reno during the US Bar Table Championships (USBTC) from Feb 12th-19th

1024 player single elimination bracket (May be expanded to 2048 if high demand) Played on 9 ft Diamonds
Players can buy in at any level and/or rebuy as many times as they like until the bracket is full.

1st $1600
2nd $800
3rd/4th $300
With Full Bracket of 1024

Level----------Round of--------Race to-----Entry Fee
1------------------1024-------------1------------$5
2-------------------512--------------1-----------$10
3-------------------256--------------2-----------$20
4-------------------128--------------2-----------$40
5--------------------64--------------2------------$80
6--------------------32--------------3------------$160
7--------------------16--------------3--------------------------
8-------------8 (Quarter-final)-----3--------------------------
9-------------4 (Semi-final)--------4------------Loser 3rd/4th
10---------------2 (Final)-----------5------------Loser 2nd Winner 1st

So in this example a player has a shot at winning $1600 for as little as $5!

Please ask any questions about the format and I will answer them the best I can. This will provide clarity for others that are confused.
 
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New Reno format

To clarify,

This new format is something that will be going on IN ADDITION to the other regular events. These will be mostly done after hours.

This will not affect playing in any of the other events.

It is a rather unique concept and we wanted to give it a shot. The system will be presented by Edward (the original poster) - and it will mostly be done after hours.

This is another example of CSI wiling to try something new. I think there is something here - we will see how the players react to it.

Feel free to ask questions, Edward will respond.

Mark Griffin
CSI
 
You have just got to love an optimist. Sounds good Mark but are MENSA members seeded. These things always look better on a wall with names on the sheets Good Luck for trying something new (how old are you?)
 
Do you just add brackets as needed?

When does round 1 close?

If I out in round 3 is the buy back round 3 priceing?

32/2=16 but if 8 people buy into round 2 thats 24 so just add brackets?

If each round has infinite buy backs it could run for days right?
 
If I understand correctly, if you have a tournament for 128 players, and only 78 show up, then the players can buy into those remaining spots?
 
mrjobe said:
Do you just add brackets as needed?

When does round 1 close?

If I out in round 3 is the buy back round 3 priceing?

32/2=16 but if 8 people buy into round 2 thats 24 so just add brackets?

If each round has infinite buy backs it could run for days right?
Click to expand...

Round 1 closes when there are no more spots available. Keep in mind that when somebody buys in at a higher level Round 1 spots decrease accordingly. In the example above if somebody buys in at Level 6, then Round 1 spots decrease by 32 at that very moment.

You can buy in at any level and at any time as long as there are spots remaining. There will be a board showing how many spots are available at each level.

Dont know what you are exactly asking in the fourth question.

Each round does not have infinite buy backs. It can run for days or it can run for hours. If 32 people pre-register at Level 6, the tournament is then full, and just becomes a 32 person single elimination bracket at that time. In this case above we have 8 days. I will be determining a cutoff time for entry.
 
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Bank2Win said:
huh? wtf?...am i supposed to understand that?...dumb it down for us idiots...
Click to expand...

In general, instead of having just one option for an entry fee as in most tournaments you now have multiple options.

If a tournaments entry fee is $600 dollars and double elimination, there is a chance that you could lose your first two matches and be done without getting to shoot more than a couple of times.

With this format you can choose how much you want to spend on entry fees and make that decision based on the prize money available.

So for the tournament above, how much would you pay to possibly win $1600 or $800 or $300. It could be as low as $5 to sky is the limit.

The maximum you can buy in for one entry in the example above is $160. So instead of paying $160 for just one Level 6 entry, you could as well pay for 32 separate entries at $5/ each, insuring you will play at least 32 games of one pocket as compared to just playing a minimum of one race at $160. So if you like more bang for your buck, this structure is the best.

Another great thing is that you have the opportunity to choose who you play the first match, assuming they agree to play also. In a regular tournament you never get to choose who u play, the tournament director does. If you win, you then draw yourself where you will be placed.

There are many more benefits, but I hope this is enough for now. Any more questions, feel free to ask.
 
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Hits 'em Hard said:
If I understand correctly, if you have a tournament for 128 players, and only 78 show up, then the players can buy into those remaining spots?
Click to expand...

More or less, yes. Assuming the bracket only a 128 player bracket and you have 78 people there, there should be absolutely no problem filling the bracket up completely. Remember, any player can buy in at any level as many times as they want until the bracket is full.
 
Any thoughts or opinions on this format? Good or bad, I would love to hear more feedback.

Thanks in advance,

Edward
 
?????

What is the payout? 25%?

What do you mean by the player has a choice of who to play? Is it not random draw? If you are allowed to pick your player, what stops that player from playing himself and setting up himself to win on a couple of brackets?

just curious, I like the idea, but there seems to be a lot of variables that need explained.


Chris
 
cabilliardclub said:
What is the payout? 25%?

What do you mean by the player has a choice of who to play? Is it not random draw? If you are allowed to pick your player, what stops that player from playing himself and setting up himself to win on a couple of brackets?

just curious, I like the idea, but there seems to be a lot of variables that need explained.


Chris
Click to expand...

The payout percentage is not a fixed number because it depends on how many entries there are when there is not a full bracket. The payout is for the first four places assuming the bracket is full.

Players have a choice of who they play in the first match. If the two players agree to play each other, the winner then draws at random for their place in the bracket. For example, lets say that you and Mark Griffin decide to play each other in the One Pocket, agree to pay a $10 Level 2 entry each. You guys will play one game and the winner will then draw for their place in the bracket at Level 3.

There is nothing stopping the player from playing himself, and that is why you can buy up to the Round of 32. In essence if a player buys one Level 6 entry for $160 in the example above, they have just bought all the $5 Level 1 entries in that bracket.

Hence the name of the format. You can either PAY for your spot in the final 32, or you can PLAY for your spot in the final 32.
 
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FASTEJ; Dont know what you are exactly asking in the fourth question...[/QUOTE said:
I see, my question was how do you account for buying in at round3,4,6 whatever.

I missed the part that there are 1024 "spots" in the bracket right?

So when you say a level 6 buy-in eliminates 32 level one spots that makes sence.

I had assumed you just added extra bracket wherever needed...which sounded a little odd

Can you explain "multi-rebuy format"
Click to expand...
 
mrjobe said:
I see, my question was how do you account for buying in at round3,4,6 whatever.

I missed the part that there are 1024 "spots" in the bracket right?

So when you say a level 6 buy-in eliminates 32 level one spots that makes sence.

I had assumed you just added extra bracket wherever needed...which sounded a little odd

Can you explain "multi-rebuy format"
Click to expand...

Rebuy is usually a term used if someone loses a match, then they can buy back into the tournament. Multi-rebuy means that if you enter and you lose a match, you can buy back into the tournament again, as long as the bracket is not full.

However, it is not necessary to lose a match to buy into the tournament again. If you win a match, there is nothing stopping you from buying into the tournament again multiple times, other than the bracket being full. Hence the term Multi-entry.
 
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Cool idea

I am really interested in seeing how this goes for you. I like the idea of playing in a tournament this way. I had back surgery last Feb and for me this would be GREAT. I really have to limit my tournament play to very small ones. It becomes hell to play match, after match, after match. By the time I get to the money or even crunch time I am in so much pain it is very hard to play. Let alone play good. I think this format favors people with simular situations. I know I feel it does for me.

Keep us posted. Would like to hear how you think it went, as well as hear from someone who played in it.

Junior
 
Junior1228 said:
I am really interested in seeing how this goes for you. I like the idea of playing in a tournament this way. I had back surgery last Feb and for me this would be GREAT. I really have to limit my tournament play to very small ones. It becomes hell to play match, after match, after match. By the time I get to the money or even crunch time I am in so much pain it is very hard to play. Let alone play good. I think this format favors people with simular situations. I know I feel it does for me.

Keep us posted. Would like to hear how you think it went, as well as hear from someone who played in it.

Junior
Click to expand...

Thank you for the feedback. This is yet another positive to add when it comes to this tournament format. Would have never thought this format could be a positive for someone with back problems.

Just to add to this, if a person buys in at the highest level, they do not need to show up to the tourney the first day. They would show up when the final 32 is scheduled to play. In the example above that would not be until the second to last day. No need to pay for a whole week of hotel room, just show up the last two days. You can take the money you would have paid for the hotel room and buy in at a higher level.
 
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The maximum you can buy in for one entry in the example above is $160. So instead of paying $160 for just one Level 6 entry, you could as well pay for 32 separate entries at $5/ each, insuring you will play at least 32 games of one pocket as compared to just playing a minimum of one race at $160. So if you like more bang for your buck, this structure is the best.



Humm, that's really good, so if you want to just get practice you spend 160 and get to play many people. I like it!
 
swami4u said:
The maximum you can buy in for one entry in the example above is $160. So instead of paying $160 for just one Level 6 entry, you could as well pay for 32 separate entries at $5/ each, insuring you will play at least 32 games of one pocket as compared to just playing a minimum of one race at $160. So if you like more bang for your buck, this structure is the best.



Humm, that's really good, so if you want to just get practice you spend 160 and get to play many people. I like it!
Click to expand...

The example was to show that you have options instead of being limited to one specified entry fee for a tournament that you might want to play. There is nobody telling you that you have to spend $160. If you happen to like one pocket and wanted to play in the tournament, the fact is if you can participate for as little as $5.
 
swami4u said:
The maximum you can buy in for one entry in the example above is $160. So instead of paying $160 for just one Level 6 entry, you could as well pay for 32 separate entries at $5/ each, insuring you will play at least 32 games of one pocket as compared to just playing a minimum of one race at $160. So if you like more bang for your buck, this structure is the best.



Humm, that's really good, so if you want to just get practice you spend 160 and get to play many people. I like it!
Click to expand...

Just in case you were being sarcastic, this format is good for people that in fact just want to practice. Most people don't practice a game of one pocket unless they are playing somebody else. But people do practice 10 ball.
This is the structure for the PAY OR PLAY 10 BALL: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=260595

As you can see, Level 1 entry is only $1. This means two things when it comes to practice:
1. You can match up with somebody else for $1 and practice against somebody that you dont know. You still have a chance at winning $500-$2500.
2. You can buy a Level 2 entry for $2. You get to play a match of 10 Ball against yourself (practice game), and you are guaranteed to play at least one more game against somebody in the draw. So you get practice, play at least two games of 10 ball, maybe more, and also still have a chance at winning $500-$2500 for just $2.

In this matter, this structure helps bring amateur money into pro prool. Instead of somebody paying table time just to practice, they can still practice AND be entered in a tournament (with a chance for a payout) for about the same price.
 
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