It was on a barbox, and results are not typical.
(Way to call on the BSer's, though, you're just off the mark this time)
The One Thing You Must Do If You Aspire to Become Good
- Thread starter Choir Boy
- Start date
It was on a barbox, and results are not typical.
(Way to call on the BSer's, though, you're just off the mark this time)
So how did Buddy hall or Willie Masconi become good? With their upright stance how could they see all three at the same time?
Thank you.
Or Luther Lassiter, or many of the older generation?
That is EXACTLY why they used the more upright stance. To get all the balls in their field of vision.
Of course the great difficulty with this method is to maintain a consistent head position in relation to the left hand, the cue, and the balls.
I asked Lassiter this question around '67 or so and that's pretty much what he told me word for word. He also added that he thought with the chin near the stick that the newer generation of players would prove to be better than the older more upright guys.
That is a whole different thread of course.
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The one word answer is consistency.
Tell me how consistent target shooters would be if they had to close their eyes before they pulled the trigger. Pretty good, sure, but I assure you not as good as seeing the target.
It seems to me that you are contradicting yourself and your topic, but, maybe I am confused. It wouldn't be the first time.
Are you advocating a upright stance or a low chin on the cue type stance?
I was under the impression that you were saying you must have the cue ball,object ball and pocket all in a line of sight view at the same time. Is this what you mean?
you're confusing one target with three here. When shooting a gun at a apple for instance, the apple becomes your target.
When shooting a cue ball into a object ball then into a pocket there becomes three targets involved.
1st - hitting the cue ball in the intended place.
2nd cue ball hitting the object ball in the intended place
3rd hitting the pocket.
I think this is what he means by once you have your OB lined up thats all you need.
That shot isn't blind to me. Not even close. Sorry, maybe I'm looking at the wrong frame.
Obviously, everyone has a different field of vision, but I just don't see it being blind in those shots.
Just so you all know, I've always worn glasses to play and I get my chin right down on the stick, where my head is very upright.
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Could be. I dunno. Communication is always tough.
I literally see a grey path or gutter from the cue ball to the object ball to the pocket. That is what is in my field of vision. I'm sure others have similar visual cues. (pun not intended)
OK, time to practice. Have a good evening all.
And I'd like to see some input from others out there who consider themselves, if not pros, pretty close.
I used to race motorcycles. One of the race class I did had a grid of almost 40 riders.
When you are in the middle of the pack at the start and you have20 bikes in front of you and then 20 more behind you wanting to get by going into the first turn, you learn real quick to see everything that is happen around without looking at anything that's happen. You learn how to use your whole field of vision on the track.
I use the same concept in pool on certain shots. I see everything around the shot on the table yet don't look at anyone thing. I'm really looking a spot on the table that allows me to see everything.
There are shots where you cannot see the pocket or even the OB. One that comes to mind is when you have to shoot jacked up and you are looking more down at the table than looking over the table.
However, if you use the second ghost ball aiming method, that's not a problem. The second ghost aiming method is to have a ghost ball in front of the CB or OB, whatever the case maybe, in the direction you want to send the CB/OB, or just imagine the pocket is just in front of the OB.
When you are in the middle of the pack at the start and you have20 bikes in front of you and then 20 more behind you wanting to get by going into the first turn, you learn real quick to see everything that is happen around without looking at anything that's happen. You learn how to use your whole field of vision on the track.
I use the same concept in pool on certain shots. I see everything around the shot on the table yet don't look at anyone thing. I'm really looking a spot on the table that allows me to see everything.
There are shots where you cannot see the pocket or even the OB. One that comes to mind is when you have to shoot jacked up and you are looking more down at the table than looking over the table.
However, if you use the second ghost ball aiming method, that's not a problem. The second ghost aiming method is to have a ghost ball in front of the CB or OB, whatever the case maybe, in the direction you want to send the CB/OB, or just imagine the pocket is just in front of the OB.
Errm, not to be argumentative but no you can't. Only superman can defy the laws of physics.
The target isn't the pocket in my example , though, it's the contact point on the object ball. Cryden was right on. Your analogy would be more appropriate if we're comparing the ability of the target shooter with that of a pool player to deliver the cueball to the contact point on the object ball blindfolded.
I'm not saying it's some sort of hindrance to see the pocket, just that it's not strictly required if you can deliver the cueball to the contact point on the object ball.
You're example of seeing a "gray path" is interesting, though. I know some golfers who say the same thing when putting. My "sight picture" if you will when shooting just revolves around getting to that contact point on the OB. Once again, different strokes (if you will) for different folks.
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Such a stern introduction to this. Must be serious.....or silly.
Frankly it is almost impossible to not do what you are saying for most shots.
Unless of course you are saying you can focus on all three at once....which is of course, in my qualified expert opinion....impossible....but nobody needed me to tell them that.
Frankly, it isn't hard to do at all, it's almost impossible not to on most occasions. Do you play pool?
Maybe you have bitemporal meianopsia? Or homonymous hemianopsia? Did you bump your head?
I agree being a right hander, and having the "utmost confidence in potting the ball with the desired shape for the next ball to be played."
David Harcrow
Such a stern introduction to this. Must be serious.....or silly.
Frankly it is almost impossible to not do what you are saying for most shots.
Unless of course you are saying you can focus on all three at once....which is of course, in my qualified expert opinion....impossible....but nobody needed me to tell them that.
Frankly, it isn't hard to do at all, it's almost impossible not to on most occasions. Do you play pool?
Maybe you have bitemporal meianopsia? Or homonymous hemianopsia? Did you bump your head?
I've read a few neuropsychology books. The most interesting cases were war wounds of course. Perhaps you should reread them.
Well I should have known better than to expect an open discussion about merits of what I've tried to contribute.
This quote has been attributed to Einstein:
"The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things over and over and expect things to change."
Hmm... I see a lot of that around here unfortunately. And those with an open mind seem to get laughed at and put down. How sad.
First I'm told it's impossible as there are too many blind shots. Now I'm told it's almost impossible to not see all three targets...
I suppose Einstein was right.
As for you question of do I play pool, I'll simply answer as I always have when asked:
"Yes, I play a little bit."
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I appreciate your attitude, and your posts here since you've joined. I expect many others do, as well.
The one thing that does get me, just a little, is how you keep alluding to the fact that you are a player of some renown, and as such your opinion should be respected. Yet you have declined to give reason for that, meaning who you are. I'm not one who insists that folks who post here can't be taken seriously if they don't reveal their identity, but by the same token you can't have it both ways. If you don't wanna tell us who you are, you can't expect everyone to simply take for granted that you are a very experienced and highly skilled player. (No doubt you probably are. No insult intended.)
If you're gonna let the interchange in this thread get you down, you probably ought to let go of the idea of hanging around the forum. Because it gets much, much worse. Sadly. Fortunately, there are many folks who have a lot to share who manage to get through all the "stuff" and still hang out here, helping the rest of us. Perhaps that will be you, too.
CueCam says no
I agree. There are PLENTY of times, especially on a 12-footer, when you're shooting at a blind pocket. You simply cannot pan your eyes in a "dog-leg pattern" between "all three" (i.e. cue ball, object ball, and pocket) as the OP says.
Instead, you should've acquired the line of the object ball to the pocket while still standing. Once you're down on the shot, YOU NEED TO FORGET ABOUT THE POCKET. Good aiming systems / methods teach this -- irrespective of ghostball, pivot-based (e.g. CTE, Pro1), fractional, back-of-ball, what-have-you -- that once you've bent over into the shot, it's too late to start looking at or thinking about the pocket. If you do, get back up, re-acquire, and get back down onto the shot properly.
The pivot-based aiming system devotees like to claim ownership to this idea of "forgetting about the pocket," but truth is, it's much older than that:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc
(Apologies for the multiple postings of this link, but this concept of "forgetting about the pocket" is so important -- and "aiming system agnostic" -- that it bears repeating.)
-Sean
What if a player isn't shooting at a pocket? Such as in a combo or carom? I guess the combo or carom could still be in the field of vision. I just know where the pocket is based from experience. If I have trouble with a certain shot then it becomes part of my practice routine until I have it down.
I've seen SVB practice one shot for over 30 minutes. I'm assuming it was a shot that he missed or was having trouble making consistently. BTW, it wasn't an easy shot.
I've seen SVB practice one shot for over 30 minutes. I'm assuming it was a shot that he missed or was having trouble making consistently. BTW, it wasn't an easy shot.