John Brumback's "Bank Pool Secrets of a World Champion"

[TheThaiger]

Ah, be thankful that I don't have the patience for typing on my phone, as opposed to working on my computer. I would have given you a lenghthy, way-too-wordy treatise on all the particulars... but alas, my phone is difficult to pontificate upon, and I had to leave to go play pool for 4 hours. You know, playing pool, that thing we are all supposed to be interested in?

Sorry about that.

So, you're saying you can't be bothered to show me where I'm wrong?

Phew, I thought I was in trouble there for a moment!

 

[justadub]

Respectfully, that's wholly unconvincing. We're in danger of turning pool into an expensive members only club, where knowledge is controlled and accessible to only those with the money to buy it. $50 DVDs creates barriers to the game.

Pool is anomalous to the 'information' age.

Prior to our recent information age, I.e. the last 20-25 years or so, was pool a rich man's sport? Hardly. So where did all the pool players of that time go to get their knowledge? They had to gamble in order to even get to see the players who had the knowledge, and hope they picked up something.

Now we have world class players willing to share their knowledge, and are charging for it. In this case $50. For something the user.can go back and view over and over, to better learn and understand, at the users own leisure.

Compare that $50 in todays money to the money lost gambling in years past, and see what's a better deal.

I hope John sells a bunch of these, and makes a TON of money. I hope you, TheThaiger, eventually get tired of this stuff-stirring and move along to delight some other crowd.

 

[TheThaiger]

Yeah, it's kind of a funny thing, especially in this day and age. Everyone has a computer and everyone has a need to have their voice heard. So whereas there was a time when the discordant were heard less frequently, now it's just part of the deal.
Lou Figueroa

Or, it's democratised the world, with all of us free to chime in with our opinions, without fear or repression. The internet shines a light into the dark corners of extortion, corruption and cronyism. It frees us from the shackles of oppressors, and keeps us safe from exploitation. It gives the little guy a voice and levels the playing-field.

Still, protectionism is alive and well in some places, however.

 

[TheThaiger]

Prior to our recent information age, I.e. the last 20-25 years or so, was pool a rich man's sport? Hardly. So where did all the pool players of that time go to get their knowledge? They had to gamble in order to even get to see the players who had the knowledge, and hope they picked up something.

Now we have world class players willing to share their knowledge, and are charging for it. In this case $50. For something the user.can go back and view over and over, to better learn and understand, at the users own leisure.

Compare that $50 in todays money to the money lost gambling in years past, and see what's a better deal.

Specious reasoning and a spurious comparison. You might as well ask the condemned man whether he prefers death by firing squad, or hanging.

 

[JB Cases]

Good information has value. What value is up to the buyer. I like to gamble at pool. I have bought videos by Grady Matthews, Billy Incardona, and others where I could point to one or two shots that I learned that got me the cash.

All things being equal the player who has the benefit of coaching be it in person or through a video lesson will have the advantage. That's a given.

Take two people, a piece of leather, and five colors. The person who watches a video on coloring techniques will be rocking out well colored pieces in an hour while the other one is still trying to figure out how NOT to get blotches all over the leather, their fingers and their clothes.

$50 for good information is a bargain if it's the information you are looking for. Given that bank shots come up a lot in pool someone might want to know how to bank really well especially if they play pool for money.

In every field on the planet the best information costs money to acquire. Be it in the form of magazine subscriptions, purchasing media, time researching and collecting, personal instruction, taking classes, etc.... you are paying for it.

So whining about the price is silly. Whether 50 or 500 or 5000 the value to the buyer is what they can DO with the information. If it's good quality intel then they can do a lot with it. If it's crap then they can't do much with it.

One thing is certain, without it you can't ascertain the value until someone else tries it first. You can whine about the price but as the saying goes then you are someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[TheThaiger]

Good information has value. What value is up to the buyer. I like to gamble at pool. I have bought videos by Grady Matthews, Billy Incardona, and others where I could point to one or two shots that I learned that got me the cash.

All things being equal the player who has the benefit of coaching be it in person or through a video lesson will have the advantage. That's a given.

Take two people, a piece of leather, and five colors. The person who watches a video on coloring techniques will be rocking out well colored pieces in an hour while the other one is still trying to figure out how NOT to get blotches all over the leather, their fingers and their clothes.

$50 for good information is a bargain if it's the information you are looking for. Given that bank shots come up a lot in pool someone might want to know how to bank really well especially if they play pool for money.

In every field on the planet the best information costs money to acquire. Be it in the form of magazine subscriptions, purchasing media, time researching and collecting, personal instruction, taking classes, etc.... you are paying for it.

So whining about the price is silly. Whether 50 or 500 or 5000 the value to the buyer is what they can DO with the information. If it's good quality intel then they can do a lot with it. If it's crap then they can't do much with it.

One thing is certain, without it you can't ascertain the value until someone else tries it first. You can whine about the price but as the saying goes then you are someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Spoken like a true addict! :grin:

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[JB Cases]

Spoken like a true addict! :grin:

Yeah I guess if being addicted to knowledge that helps me make money is a bad thing.

I guarantee you that if you and I compete in ANYTHING then I am going to study it first and then do it. You MIGHT be faster out of the gate but I will blow you away in the stretch.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Respectfully, that's wholly unconvincing. We're in danger of turning pool into an expensive members only club, where knowledge is controlled and accessible to only those with the money to buy it. $50 DVDs creates barriers to the game.

Pool is anomalous to the 'information' age.

Do you feel that you should be able to approach a champion pool player, and ask them for a free lesson?

If not, what do you feel would be adequate compensation for a champions time?

Say, 3 hours worth lesson time? What do you think would be a fair price? A cup of coffee? $50 bucks?

 

[sfleinen]

Do you feel that you should be able to approach a champion pool player, and ask them for a free lesson?

If not, what do you feel would be adequate compensation for a champions time?

Say, 3 hours worth lesson time? What do you think would be a fair price? A cup of coffee? $50 bucks?

Sup:

I asked him that question way back in post #99, and he slid right by it quicker than wet ice on wet ice.

-Sean

 

[JB Cases]

How is a $50 DVD a barrier?

Seriously?

Thaiger are you that poor? Really......people in China manage to play with pool cues that cost upwards of $200 to $20,000

No one NEEDS a dvd to play pool. But if someone DESIRES to have the information then they figure out how to get it.

I mean when I was 21 years old I remember several guys who were younger than me who pooled their money together to buy the VHS instructional set put out by Meucci. It was like $80 at the time. They each chipped in 20 and shared the tapes.

If some kid went on the WFS section and begged to borrow John's dvd then 100% someone who bought it would loan it out or even outright give it away. That's how we roll here.

You are creating red herrings arguments. Let it go and stop being Debbie Downer.

 

[duckie]

The only purpose to the DVD is knowledge. It is not for entertainment. So.... get with a friend (if you have any) and each go in for half the price. Write down the info in the DVD. That way, you can take that knowledge to the pool room and practice it. Once you have the information on the DVD wrote down, you no longer have any use for the DVD. (unless you have a crush on John).

There is knowledge on the DVD but that is not its only purpose cause if that was the true, than it would be free.

The DVD is about making money by sharing knowledge.

There is a cost incurred producing a product and one of the purpose's of the product is to provide a ROI-return on investment.

Meaning the product has to be priced at a certain point in order to pay the cost of production and some profit.

I'm not trying to raze you or anything, but wanted to take the opportunity to explain the overall concept about making money by sharing knowledge on a DVD. I find nothing wrong with the price of the DVD, btw.

I saw the clip that was posted and if the DVD is of the same quality, than it appears to be a good deal.

Banks shots are something you really don't see alot of in 14.1 9 ball or 8 ball. I've posted a 3 rail side pocket shot in other threads. I have only seen one other player ever do that shot and that is the guy I learned it from. I've never seen that shot in any games I've played.

Point is that someone might see a bank never seen before, see it on the DVD and brings their game up. That right there is worth 50 bucks in the long run. Maybe not to you, but it does to the person the DVD helped and that is truly all that matters.

 

[JoeyInCali]

$50 ?

If you learn one bank or kick to win a finals in the local tournament, it's paid itself.

 

[Neil]

............

 

[BasementDweller]

There is knowledge on the DVD but that is not its only purpose cause if that was the true, than it would be free.

The DVD is about making money by sharing knowledge.

There is a cost incurred producing a product and one of the purpose's of the product is to provide a ROI-return on investment.

Meaning the product has to be priced at a certain point in order to pay the cost of production and some profit.

I'm not trying to raze you or anything, but wanted to take the opportunity to explain the overall concept about making money by sharing knowledge on a DVD. I find nothing wrong with the price of the DVD, btw.

I saw the clip that was posted and if the DVD is of the same quality, than it appears to be a good deal.

Banks shots are something you really don't see alot of in 14.1 9 ball or 8 ball. I've posted a 3 rail side pocket shot in other threads. I have only seen one other player ever do that shot and that is the guy I learned it from. I've never seen that shot in any games I've played.

Point is that someone might see a bank never seen before, see it on the DVD and brings their game up. That right there is worth 50 bucks in the long run. Maybe not to you, but it does to the person the DVD helped and that is truly all that matters.

Duckie,

That 3 rail bank in the side pocket is a VERY COMMON shot in bank pool (if it's the shot I think you posted). Just about everybody knows that shot.

You might need to get out more. I'm starting to think maybe your name should be "Basementdweller II".

Just trying to help you out.

 

[jay helfert]

You totally missed the point. If you can't afford the 50, there are ways to get the knowledge by spending less. The $50 price tag shouldn't hold anyone back that really desires the knowledge. It's no different than group lessons are cheaper per person than individual lessons.

You can't have it Neil, you bank too good already!

 

[BasementDweller]

There is knowledge on the DVD but that is not its only purpose cause if that was the true, than it would be free.

The DVD is about making money by sharing knowledge.

There is a cost incurred producing a product and one of the purpose's of the product is to provide a ROI-return on investment.

Meaning the product has to be priced at a certain point in order to pay the cost of production and some profit.

I'm not trying to raze you or anything, but wanted to take the opportunity to explain the overall concept about making money by sharing knowledge on a DVD. I find nothing wrong with the price of the DVD, btw.

I saw the clip that was posted and if the DVD is of the same quality, than it appears to be a good deal.

Banks shots are something you really don't see alot of in 14.1 9 ball or 8 ball. I've posted a 3 rail side pocket shot in other threads. I have only seen one other player ever do that shot and that is the guy I learned it from. I've never seen that shot in any games I've played.

Point is that someone might see a bank never seen before, see it on the DVD and brings their game up. That right there is worth 50 bucks in the long run. Maybe not to you, but it does to the person the DVD helped and that is truly all that matters.

Duckie,

That 3 rail bank in the side pocket is a VERY COMMON shot in bank pool (if it's the shot I think you posted). Just about everybody knows that shot.

You might need to get out more. I'm starting to think maybe your name should be "Basementdweller II".

Just trying to help you out.

:scratchhead:

 

[lfigueroa]

Duckie,

That 3 rail bank in the side pocket is a VERY COMMON shot in bank pool (if it's the shot I think you posted). Just about everybody knows that shot.

You might need to get out more. I'm starting to think maybe your name should be "Basementdweller II".

Just trying to help you out.

Absolutely. Three-in-the side is a standard bank pool shot. Even I know that and you can count the number of bank pool games I've played on both paws. It also has great application to 1pocket because you are frequently shooting a ball away from the other guy's end rail to your side. This gives you a guide to play it long or short to place it on your side to greater advantage.

And about the 14.1 -- yes, bank shots come up rarely. However, when I am compelled to shoot a bank at 14.1 I will now do so with a fundamentally sounder understanding of these shots than I previously possessed.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BasementDweller]

.....duplicate post.....

 

[TheThaiger]

How is a $50 DVD a barrier?

Seriously?

Thaiger are you that poor? Really......people in China manage to play with pool cues that cost upwards of $200 to $20,000

No one NEEDS a dvd to play pool. But if someone DESIRES to have the information then they figure out how to get it.

I mean when I was 21 years old I remember several guys who were younger than me who pooled their money together to buy the VHS instructional set put out by Meucci. It was like $80 at the time. They each chipped in 20 and shared the tapes.

If some kid went on the WFS section and begged to borrow John's dvd then 100% someone who bought it would loan it out or even outright give it away. That's how we roll here.

You are creating red herrings arguments. Let it go and stop being Debbie Downer.

$80 for a VHS and you're not outraged? Pool has always been bananas then. No one in the snooker world spends a penny on any of this stuff, and they do alright.

And I very much disagree with your statement that information gets shared freely - it simply does not. The crux of the matter is this; people LIKE high prices, because they THINK it'll give THEM competitive advantage. Producers play on this, whether they;re knocking out DVDs, cues or cases. I have no objection to high prices for cues and cases, but to have a premium imposed on content is deplorable. It is nothing more than opportunism, with the strong dominating the weak.

Thank god Tim Berners-Lee had the foresight to make the internet unrestricted and free for all users. Had he implemented the fuzzy logic of you lot, there would be a handful of billionaires using it to keep us all in our place - and you'd be lining up to congratulate them on their good fortune.

Protectionism is soo twentieth century, John.