Shaft Wabble

[Dave38]

Glad all worked out well, and I must give kudos to you for not giving the makers name out and showing him in a bad light as some here have done in the past without even contacting the maker and giving him a chance to make things right. One must always give the maker time to fix and make right. If they choose not to do so, well then it all goes downhill from there....:smile: Glad it worked out.
Dave

 

[Dave38]

Dave, while i respect your opinion, i also disagree with it. These "shaft carts" are no better than leaning them in the corner. Other's can do as they wish, i will hang my wood on center, big end down Try it, you may find, as many others already know, it's the only way to go. As far as the taper roll goes, if a shaft is turning concentric on both ends, why does it necassarily have to be warped? Would'nt it be more likely that there was some tool push, and or uneven sanding done? IMO, if the shaft is concentric end to end, it is not warped, and can be fixed, in most cases.

Scott < who thinks wood can be stubborn, has a mind of it's own, and needs to be trained to stay straight from day one.:thumbup:

I have hung them, even with flat lam shaft dowels, that then took different directions from straight. It has alot to do with the fact they are made of wood, and may not have been stress relieved enough while kiln drying or they were cut wrong as blanks, or moisture content in the air rose or dropped sharply, or the grain goes a different way than one would like...etc. I personally think if there is any wobble in the middle, it should be called 'grain roll' or warped. Using the term 'Taper roll' implies that the taper cut into the shaft is the reason it now wobbles in the middle. To me if you got a slightly warped shaft that is straight rolling, but has a wobble in the middle then taper had nothing to do with it, just climate changes or the maker didn't season it long enough. If the maker calls it taper roll, I'd ask for my money back before accepting a cue that has, by the makers term....' taper roll'
JMO,
Dave

 

[Matt]

Yes, glass is viscous. If you inspect thick plate glass that has been in a vertical position for 50 years or more, you will find it is thicker at the bottom than it is at the top or bottom. Viscosity giving way to gravity over time.
Rick

It might interest you to know that glass flow is an urban myth.

You can read more about it at http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Behavior_of_antique_glass.

The gist of it is that glass was not manufactured to a uniform thickness, so it was installed thick side down so water didn't run into a gap between the pane and the frame.

 

[scdiveteam]

It might interest you to know that glass flow is an urban myth.

You can read more about it at http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Behavior_of_antique_glass.

The gist of it is that glass was not manufactured to a uniform thickness, so it was installed thick side down so water didn't run into a gap between the pane and the frame.

Matt,

Men of science disagree in this area and the structure of glass is not nailed down or completely understood even today. Theories. Glass rigid like a solid, but its molecules are not arranged in repeating crystals. It is amorphous like a liquid.

I don't like to spread urban legend if this is what we are indeed talking about but I saw a documentry about glass being replace on the Empire State Building where they described this condition. Who knows the documentary could have been bull crap?

Thanks,

Rick

more info: http://www.glasslinks.com/newsinfo/physics.htm

 

[riedmich]

Rick, the article of your last link is perfect to solve that big missunderstanding about flowing glas of old windows. But even people from school or university with high knowledge believe in that story - because they havent't been told about the real facts.

The reason why old windows of glas may be thicker at the bottom just has to do with the way of producing glas in hostory. It was not possible to produce equal thicknesses and so they often took the thicker end to the bottom for a better prevention of incoming water. I read this in another article.

Thanks

 

[whammo57]

It might interest you to know that glass flow is an urban myth.

You can read more about it at http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Behavior_of_antique_glass.

The gist of it is that glass was not manufactured to a uniform thickness, so it was installed thick side down so water didn't run into a gap between the pane and the frame.

I have personally seen a window glass in a very old house where the glass in the window pane was so thin at the top that there were small holes through the glass. The bottom was noticeably thicker. I think glass flows.

Remember..... any idiot can put up a "fact" on wikipedia. Because it says so on the internet, doesn't necessarily make it true.

but I could be wrong...........

Kim

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick, the article of your last link is perfect to solve that big missunderstanding about flowing glas of old windows. But even people from school or university with high knowledge believe in that story - because they havent't been told about the real facts.

The reason why old windows of glas may be thicker at the bottom just has to do with the way of producing glas in hostory. It was not possible to produce equal thicknesses and so they often took the thicker end to the bottom for a better prevention of incoming water. I read this in another article.

Thanks

Thanks, like I said, I don't wish to spread urban legend. Now the slate is a different story.

Rick

 

[KJ Cues]

Let's get back to the shaft. The glass trivia serves no purpose in this thread.
Taper-roll can exist. Eric's explanation(s) are some of the ways in which it can exist.
Another is if the shaft is not cut correctly at or near the joint.
Change the center-line of the shaft in this area and it will exhibit 'taper-roll'.
But then this does not address the OP's concern as this issue showed itself after a T/D.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES when doing a T/D and the client should be made to understand this.
Most shafts will stay reasonably straight after a T/D and it has nothing to do with the speed at which they were cut.
It has to do with layers upon layers of the wood's fibers holding all the other layers in check
and over-coming the internal stress that may be present in the shaft.
On some shafts, if the outside layers that are restraining the stress are removed, the internal
stressed fibers are now free to move. It can't be helped nor can it be guaranteed to stay straight.

The Cm or C-Tec who did the T/D in this case and who is now going to replace the shaft is, IMO, going
WAY over the top to please the client. I wouldn't have. Why??? Because the T/D wasn't my idea.
Wood is organic and can have a mind of it's own. No one can guarantee that it will behave.

KJ

 

[TDub]

Let's get back to the shaft. The glass trivia serves no purpose in this thread.
Taper-roll can exist. Eric's explanation(s) are some of the ways in which it can exist.
Another is if the shaft is not cut correctly at or near the joint.
Change the center-line of the shaft in this area and it will exhibit 'taper-roll'.
But then this does not address the OP's concern as this issue showed itself after a T/D.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES when doing a T/D and the client should be made to understand this.
Most shafts will stay reasonably straight after a T/D and it has nothing to do with the speed at which they were cut.
It has to do with layers upon layers of the wood's fibers holding all the other layers in check
and over-coming the internal stress that may be present in the shaft.
On some shafts, if the outside layers that are restraining the stress are removed, the internal
stressed fibers are now free to move. It can't be helped nor can it be guaranteed to stay straight.

The Cm or C-Tec who did the T/D in this case and who is now going to replace the shaft is, IMO, going
WAY over the top to please the client. I wouldn't have. Why??? Because the T/D wasn't my idea.
Wood is organic and can have a mind of it's own. No one can guarantee that it will behave.

KJ

I agree with the above, my intention was to purchase a new shaft not get a new one for free and I do feel he went way above and beyond to please me and it was totally unexpected. I insisted to purchase a new one but the cuemaker would not think of it... now, for life I will remember what this cuemaker did for me. My thought on the matter is this, all cuemakers make a relatively expensive product and all are good at what they do. Some are better than others but the key to seperate yourself from the pack is great customer service and this guy gets it. This cuemaker was outstanding to work with. He has worked over 20 years to build a reputation that is impecable, I purposly did not mention his name because I didnt want to affect his reputation because the wood did not behave.