New Pros shouldn't

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
The pro pool world isn't meant for financially unstable players.

It is better suited for financially stable individuals. Though a few individuals have been able to "make it work."

Considering their life situation a decade from now, how much can possibly change. I am not talking about the super talented from day 1 players. I am talking about the average "house pro" who managed to barely keep up with those elite pros.


Do you agree or disagree? Should someone seriously spend time to become a better pro, if they are not financially stable? Financially stable meaning, if they don't play pool for income they won't be living on someone else's couch. There are many ways to be active in the billiard community and most people get high off the idea of winning tournaments.
 
The pro pool world isn't meant for financially unstable players.

It is better suited for financially stable individuals. Though a few individuals have been able to "make it work."

Considering their life situation a decade from now, how much can possibly change. I am not talking about the super talented from day 1 players. I am talking about the average "house pro" who managed to barely keep up with those elite pros.


Do you agree or disagree? Should someone seriously spend time to become a better pro, if they are not financially stable? Financially stable meaning, if they don't play pool for income they won't be living on someone else's couch. There are many ways to be active in the billiard community and most people get high off the idea of winning tournaments.
You are trying to change decades of pool. Not saying your are wrong but, Hawaii will get 2 feet of snow before that happens.
 
?

Finacial stability has rarely had anything to do with pool players, house pro, "pro" tourneyment player, road player or local money player. Stability of any sort can be a challenge to find among a vast number of pool players. We are a very independant lot, often free thinking to the point of rebellion with at times anti-social tendencies. Sometimes bordering on the fringes of society. Quite often we use the game of pool to step outside the boundries of the social norms such as our jobs. Freedom, independence and self -expression are at the core of pool players. Stability is for those who are satisfied with 30 yrs. of a 9 -5 job who accpet the idea of a goldwatch and a pair of slippers at the end of the rainbow. Most pool players I know enjoy chasing their own rainbows, every chance they get. What will you have to show for this at the end of the rainbow. Who knows. One thing is for sure those who chased their rainbows will not have to sit in their rocking chair spending their last days wishing they had. To reach for your dream and not reach it is no crime. To never reach for it ..IS. One last thing, stability or security is an illusion, it does not exist. You have but one life to live...for the love of that life I encourage everyone to LIVE it to it's fullest. :thumbup:
 
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I don't agree or disagree. I know financial instability is not my idea of fun but it is none of my concern how others choose to live their lives. I suppose the same can be said of actors, musicians, motorcycle racers...etc.

Some have a dream and pursue it against the odds. That's admirable in a sense, but there are consequences to everything. Going after a career in pro pool is even more risky. In many sports if you haven't made it by the time you're in your mid -20's you know it's time to do something else because if it hasn't happened by then it's not going to. And of course, the path to some pro sports is through college, so at least you can get an education while you pursue the dream. And even if you do make it to the top in pool, it ain't yachts and caviar.
 
I've had two of the local players approach me in the last several months for advice about "going pro". I did well to keep from laughing as neither player is (and I seriously doubt ever will be) anywhere near the talent level to even consider such a thing. I tried to steer them toward a more stable means of livelihood without being unkind.

Your dreams should at least reflect the reality of your current abilities and an honest look at your true potential.
 
I've had two of the local players approach me in the last several months for advice about "going pro". I did well to keep from laughing as neither player is (and I seriously doubt ever will be) anywhere near the talent level to even consider such a thing. I tried to steer them toward a more stable means of livelihood without being unkind.

Your dreams should at least reflect the reality of your current abilities and an honest look at your true potential.

While I see the logic behind your statement, and it is backed up by countless stories of people trying to make it..

I just have to disagree. I feel like anyone can make it if they Have the desire and passion, mixed with the right degree of intelligence and work ethic.

All of this combined would provide a person who is very good at everything they focus on doing.

I feel like if you know how to become great at one thing, then you can learn to be great at everything.. it just involves combining all those things.. Intellect is a very important role in all of it.. it might not always be book smarts, because it can also be street smarts, or being smart in a certain way (like how one person may excel at art, or english, and another may excel at math, or science, etc.)

I really feel like when all those things click together, you will achieve your goals, but only when they are all together.

Some people lack in one or more of those areas.. that is the issue, but I believe that anyone can fix that issue with enough focus. So that means everyone should have the ability to do something, they just have to put it all together to do so. (I.E. I think if you are smart enough to figure out how to fix what you are doing wrong, and smart enough to know the game of pool, combined with the drive and focus to practice as hard and long as you need too.. then they can achieve their goals.)
 
Because there is really no money to be made in professional fool for the majority of American players, it is not economically feasible to pursue professional pool as a career.

Some pool players, however, have such a deep passion for pool that their priorities in life do not center around financial security. It is sad to see, for instance, a well-known pro player not have the funds for a burial when they pass away, have no money for medical maladies as they grow old, have no home to hang their hat, buy their clothes from thrift stores because they can't afford new clothes, eat most of their meals at fast food restaurant because it's cheap, sleep on the floor or in a car to save money on hotel expenses. Welcome to the wonderful world of the American pool player.

I cannot blame the BCA for this result, but I do cast a good deal of blame on this so-called "governing body of North American pool" for not helping to remedy this sad state of affairs. They literally dropped the ball and decided to focus their efforts on helping their industry members turn a profit rather than professional pool. As such, in my opinion, they should not be the representative entity to the WPA, who seems to be only interested in who or what greases their WPA palms with sanctioning fees. Meanwhile, pool still ain't in the Olympics as a summer or winter game, and I don't think it ever will be at this juncture. Who needs the WPA?!

I have always had a great deal of passion for pool. I played on leagues, ran numerous tournaments, and worked graveyard shift at a neighborhood pool room. Even when I left the pool scene in my early '20s, I had a pool poster at my office cubicle -- "The Color of Money," of course. Everybody I worked with knew I loved pool.

Getting back into the professional tournament pro pool trail in the early 2000s, I was thrilled to be back in my pool saddle again, meeting all the great ones and experiencing the big tournaments as well as the regional ones. I loved it. I was passionate. Six figures later, I realized I had let my business go downhill because I was on the road attending two, three, and four tournaments a month. I was in debt, debt I did not have before, and my financial security was most definitely in jeopardy. Plus, sad to say, I was *not* enjoying pool anymore after I experienced the reality of American professional pool, seeing it up front and close, the favoritism, the behind-the-scenes rule changes to accommodate a chosen few, the misery of driving back home with no sleep, the broken heart I had when I left my beloved dog home while I was away, the emotional and physical abuse my body was enduring, the industry member(s) who thumbed their nose at me after I tried to help them succeed when they were a nobody, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Well, I am fortunate that I did not quit my day job. I realized my security in life, to include having my roof over my head, was more important than sitting front row at the week-long U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, or the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour Season Finale, or the incredibly cool week-long Derby City Classic. I was lucky to build back up my business.

Pro pool players who devote their life to pool are not as lucky. Some male pros may never know the joy of fatherhood, sharing their heart with someone they love for a lifetime, and living in a happy home. Pool industry members, pool organization members, tournament directors, and tournament promoters have the biggest chance of turning a profit in pool in the United States. For sure, they earn more money at a pool tournament that the majority of the competitors at the pool tournament. The payouts suck in pool.

Unless you can win pool tournaments consecutively with a long streak, much like Shane Van Boening is today, or you can con a fat stakehorse to support your pool endeavors, you cannot make a profit in pool as a professional player. Earl Strickland's streak was much longer than Shane's is so far, and last time I spoke to Earl, which has been a long while, well, he wasn't really a happy person. It was hard for Earl to see Americans pulling for non-American players at international events for one thing, and I totally understand and get that. Buddy Hall's wife spoke to me at the 2002 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship and admired the happiness Keith and I had being together at this pool event. She then went on to share that pool has not been kind to Buddy Hall in the twilight of his life. Buddy Hall and Earl Strickland, two of the greatest pool icons in my lifetime, what has pool done for them? :sorry:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mama, don't let you babies grow up to be pool players unless they live in the Philippines. :grin-square:
 
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Because there is really no money to be made in professional fool for the majority of American players, it is not economically feasible to pursue professional pool as a career.

Some pool players, however, have such a deep passion for pool that their priorities in life do not center around financial security. It is sad to see, for instance, a well-known pro player not have the funds for a burial when they pass away, have no money for medical maladies as they grow old, have no home to hang their hat, buy their clothes from thrift stores because they can't afford new clothes, eat most of their meals at fast food restaurant because it's cheap, sleep on the floor or in a car to save money on hotel expenses. Welcome to the wonderful world of the American pool player.

I cannot blame the BCA for this result, but I do cast a good deal of blame on this so-called "governing body of North American pool" for not helping to remedy this sad state of affairs. They literally dropped the ball and decided to focus their efforts on helping their industry members turn a profit rather than professional pool. As such, in my opinion, they should not be the representative entity to the WPA, who seems to be only interested in who or what greases their WPA palms with sanctioning fees. Meanwhile, pool still ain't in the Olympics as a summer or winter game, and I don't think it ever will be at this juncture. Who needs the WPA?!

I have always had a great deal of passion for pool. I played on leagues, ran numerous tournaments, and worked graveyard shift at a neighborhood pool room. Even when I left the pool scene in my early '20s, I had a pool poster at my office cubicle -- "The Color of Money," of course. Everybody I worked with knew I loved pool.

Getting back into the professional tournament pro pool trail in the early 2000s, I was thrilled to be back in my pool saddle again, meeting all the great ones and experiencing the big tournaments as well as the regional ones. I loved it. I was passionate. Six figures later, I realized I had let my business go downhill because I was on the road attending two, three, and four tournaments a month. I was in debt, debt I did not have before, and my financial security was most definitely in jeopardy. Plus, sad to say, I was *not* enjoying pool anymore after I experienced the reality of American professional pool, seeing it up front and close, the favoritism, the behind-the-scenes rule changes to accommodate a chosen few, the misery of driving back home with no sleep, the broken heart I had when I left my beloved dog home while I was away, the emotional and physical abuse my body was enduring, the industry member(s) who thumbed their nose at me after I tried to help them succeed when they were a nobody, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Well, I am fortunate that I did not quit my day job. I realized my security in life, to include having my roof over my head, was more important than sitting front row at the week-long U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, or the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour Season Finale, or the incredibly cool week-long Derby City Classic. I was lucky to build back up my business.

Pro pool players who devote their life to pool are not as lucky. Some male pros may never know the joy of fatherhood, sharing their heart with someone they love for a lifetime, and living in a happy home. Pool industry members, pool organization members, tournament directors, and tournament promoters have the biggest chance of turning a profit in pool in the United States. For sure, they earn more money at a pool tournament that the majority of the competitors at the pool tournament. The payouts suck in pool.

Unless you can win pool tournaments consecutively with a long streak, much like Shane Van Boening is today, or you can con a fat stakehorse to support your pool endeavors, you cannot make a profit in pool as a professional player. Earl Strickland's streak was much longer than Shane's is so far, and last time I spoke to Earl, which has been a long while, well, he wasn't really a happy person. It was hard for Earl to see Americans pulling for non-American players at international events for one thing, and I totally understand and get that. Buddy Hall's wife spoke to me at the 2002 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship and admired the happiness Keith and I had being together at this pool event. She then went on to share that pool has not been kind to Buddy Hall in the twilight of his life. Buddy Hall and Earl Strickland, two of the greatest pool icons in my lifetime, what has pool done for them? :sorry:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mama, don't let you babies grow up to be pool players unless they live in the Philippines. :grin-square:

Good read, thanks.

ps nice Freudian slip in the first sentence! :D
 
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But at the same time, why on earth would anyone who is financially stable throw it away to become a pro player? One glance at the 2011 money list http://azbilliards.com/thepros/2000thepros.php?year=2011&filter=M should be enough to convince anyone with a lucrative career to keep their day job.

Aaron

And let's be quite clear that when you look at that money list, which ain't inclusive of all income, BTW, cut that in half as far as the "real" income after you deduct expenses, savers, entry fees, chop-chop with backers, et cetera.;)

And then there's taxes. Let's not forget Uncle Sam. A player who wins $100,000 would be lucky to pocket $30,000 after the dust settles.

One European player won $64,000 in a tournament in A.C., and after the chop-chop with his backer, entry fee, travel, lodging, and everything else, he pocketed $12,000. This is *before* taxes, BTW.
 
While I see the logic behind your statement,

...I just have to disagree. I feel like anyone can make it if they Have the desire and passion, mixed with the right degree of intelligence and work ethic....)

I disagree with 'anyone can make it', if you mean being a top-level pro.

I will give you that one can make good money by matcing up properly, but a b level player who wins coz he gambles well is not a pro level pool player, IMO.

While less evident in pool (when compared with other sports like basketball), the physical attributes reqired to play @top level cannot be made up for between the ears...and desire plays a small role in ultimate success.

IMO!:sorry:
 
And let's be quite clear that when you look at that money list, which ain't inclusive of all income, BTW, cut that in half as far as the "real" income after you deduct expenses, savers, entry fees, chop-chop with backers, et cetera.;)

And then there's taxes. Let's not forget Uncle Sam. A player who wins $100,000 would be lucky to pocket $30,000 after the dust settles.

One European player won $64,000 in a tournament in A.C., and after the chop-chop with his backer, entry fee, travel, lodging, and everything else, he pocketed $12,000. This is *before* taxes, BTW.

Right. Not to mention that several other big ticket items (paid vacation, paid sick leave, retirement, health insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, 401k with matching) are often paid by employers, but would be an out of pocket expense for a pool player. If you work for a company or organization that provides these things, your "real" income could be $20-30k on top of your actual salary.

Aaron
 
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Right. Not to mention that several other big ticket items (retirement, health insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, 401k with matching) are often paid by employers, but would be an out of pocket expense for a pool player.

Aaron

I would venture to guess that 95 percent of American so-called "pro players" today have no medical insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, or retirement. And I'm being generous with 95 percent.

Then there's that living out of a suitcase lifestyle. It sucks. It is almost impossible to maintain a household with family members and pets if you're on the road the majority of the time, unless you have a spouse that doesn't give a damn whether you're home or not, unless you have a fat stakehorse that pays your way in exchange for friendship, unless you don't give a damn about being home with those who you're supposed to care about, you know, like watching your babies grow up.

And then there's the occupational hazards at the pool tournaments: high-dollar prostitutes, cheap whores, $10 apiece for prescription pills, cocaine, crack, and gambling.

Yeah, it's a real nice lifestyle. Those who can rise above the occupational hazards, they're strong players, strong in more ways than on a field of green.
 
I disagree with 'anyone can make it', if you mean being a top-level pro.

I will give you that one can make good money by matcing up properly, but a b level player who wins coz he gambles well is not a pro level pool player, IMO.

While less evident in pool (when compared with other sports like basketball), the physical attributes reqired to play @top level cannot be made up for between the ears...and desire plays a small role in ultimate success.

IMO!:sorry:

I agree with Walter on this one.

The only way you can succeed in professional-caliber pool is to hit thousands and thousands of balls every single day. You have to attend multiple tournaments each month, to include all BCA-ranked tournaments if you want to be included in Mosconi Cup, which is probably the only tournament worthy of mention in pool today when it comes to publicity, popularity, and prestige.

You cannot hold down a "normal" job and play pool for a living when you must practice every single day. Employers aren't going to let you take off of work to go to the U.S. Open, DCC, SBE, Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour at Turning Stone, CSI and Mark G's multiple Vegas/Reno events.

Holding down a full-time job and playing pool full-time? It's damn near impossible.
 
Buddy Hall and Earl Strickland, two of the greatest pool icons in my lifetime, what has pool done for them? :sorry:

Why does pool (the pool industry) have to do anything for them? We are talking about professional gamblers. Pool is not a sport, people pay money to try and win more money.

Sure you mentioned some greats, but those players won their matches, cashed out and that is the prize. What more do they deserve?

(JAM I am on your side but I want to argue against you today.)
 
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