Anyone make go/no-go ball gauges?

D

derangedhermit

AzB Gold Member
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I'm thinking of flat 1/8" to 1/4" metal plates - maybe even lexan with reinforcing fibers to reduce the coefficient of expansion.. One plate with a 2.245" round hole and another with a 2.255" hole. A handle would be nice, and a way to put it on top of a 5-gallon bucket.

Procedure.: two gauges, four buckets. First try to drop all balls through the big gauge into the first bucket. Balls that don't fit are put in a "too big" bucket, to be tossed, or maybe ground down if a cheap way to do that exists. (Although if you start with quality balls, I can't imagine finding any balls that are too large).

Now try dropping all balls from the first bucket into a second bucket, the "too small" bucket, through the small hole. These are tossed since you might can make balls smaller, but you can't make them bigger. Balls that don't go into the "too small" bucket go into the "within spec" bucket for cleaning, polishing, and play.

So, does someone offer gauges like this?
 
Pretty sure Bob Jewett has a go/no go setup for balls. I think it's a good idea, but I doubt the vast majority of home and commercial room owners would care.
 
i would suggest that you purchase a set of calipers to measure your balls with.

SLIM
 
Dave Nelson said:
I use a dial caliper. Very accurate and not very expensive.

Dave Nelson
Click to expand...

Not all that accurate really, especially the cheap ones.

My Brunswick Centenials are all within .0005" of each other, throughout the entire 16 balls, each ball mic'd several times/locations.

You can't measure that with calipers. But if +/-.005" is all you want like the OP mentioned, calipers can do.
 
Varying sizes of billiard balls...

derangedhermit said:
I'm thinking of flat 1/8" to 1/4" metal plates - maybe even lexan with reinforcing fibers to reduce the coefficient of expansion.. One plate with a 2.245" round hole and another with a 2.255" hole. A handle would be nice, and a way to put it on top of a 5-gallon bucket.

Procedure.: two gauges, four buckets. First try to drop all balls through the big gauge into the first bucket. Balls that don't fit are put in a "too big" bucket, to be tossed, or maybe ground down if a cheap way to do that exists. (Although if you start with quality balls, I can't imagine finding any balls that are too large).

Now try dropping all balls from the first bucket into a second bucket, the "too small" bucket, through the small hole. These are tossed since you might can make balls smaller, but you can't make them bigger. Balls that don't go into the "too small" bucket go into the "within spec" bucket for cleaning, polishing, and play.

So, does someone offer gauges like this?
Click to expand...

I've been hoping for something like this for many years. I currently play at a venue that is very well set-up and has quality older Brunswick Gold Crowns. But there are a few problems including the fact that every one of the 15 racks of balls has at least two different size spheres. You just can't get a tight rack, even with a Magic Rack. I think what happened was over the years, when balls were stolen, the owner bought discount replacement sets which were undersized, and of course they got mixed in, a couple with each rack. It doesn't help that the wooden racks are very old, either...

And yes, most owners aren't much concerned with such details as uniformly sized balls, adequate lighting, properly re-conditioned tables, etc....

Donny L
BPIA/ACS Instructor
 
I will look into the cost of having 13" round aluminum plates made and anodized, with a line of three holes in each: 2.245", 2.250", 2.255". If anyone else here is interested, they could do the same.

It wouldn't have to be a commercial product. Once a few were made, they could be chain-mailed to AzB folks who got one or more local rooms to agree to sort their balls. The results would be interesting - how many worn-out balls are in use? A lot, I imagine. It would show the room managers that customers care about such things.

Interestingly, Saluc (makers of Aramith) says very high precision dimensions of the ball is not the most important factor, since cushion height is much more inconsistent than ball diameter. From their web site:

"Many people still seem to think that ball diameter tolerance or roundness is the major characteristic for a billiard ball. While they are not without importance, these characteristics are relatively easily achieved. And still even if you have the best ball tolerance, you’ll enjoy it only as much as the precision of the rail mounting, which is always much lower than the ball. That’s why the quality and precision during the game is dictated much more by the balls’ raw material, their molecular structure, and their density and the resulting rebound quality.Too much rebound or too little results in erratic ball behavior, making shots and ball repositioning very random."

So I think three holes, sorting into 4 ranges, is enough for sizing, but we need to add a bounce test. It would be interesting to hear what the Magic Rack people would have to say about ball diameter, though, to be sure.
 
I have a 2 - 3 inch micrometer. It is calibrated to measure .0005. It's off by
.0002. If you want it pay for shipping and it's yours. What I would do is purchase a Vainer. You'll be surprised the uses it has. Very handy tool. BTW theres a lot of Machinists tool out there. Check yard sales or CraigsList.

P.M. me if your interested. Personally I think it's a waste of time. The owners are not going to mix and match because one person wants balls to theirs specs.
 
The Magic Rack people in Germany say their racks work with any balls in the regulation size range.

They say balls smaller than the minimum won't touch. They did not say how much smaller they have to be for them not to touch.
 
derangedhermit said:
I will look into the cost of having 13" round aluminum plates made and anodized, with a line of three holes in each: 2.245", 2.250", 2.255". If anyone else here is interested, they could do the same.

It wouldn't have to be a commercial product. Once a few were made, they could be chain-mailed to AzB folks who got one or more local rooms to agree to sort their balls. The results would be interesting - how many worn-out balls are in use? A lot, I imagine. It would show the room managers that customers care about such things.

Interestingly, Saluc (makers of Aramith) says very high precision dimensions of the ball is not the most important factor, since cushion height is much more inconsistent than ball diameter. From their web site:

"Many people still seem to think that ball diameter tolerance or roundness is the major characteristic for a billiard ball. While they are not without importance, these characteristics are relatively easily achieved. And still even if you have the best ball tolerance, you’ll enjoy it only as much as the precision of the rail mounting, which is always much lower than the ball. That’s why the quality and precision during the game is dictated much more by the balls’ raw material, their molecular structure, and their density and the resulting rebound quality.Too much rebound or too little results in erratic ball behavior, making shots and ball repositioning very random."

So I think three holes, sorting into 4 ranges, is enough for sizing, but we need to add a bounce test. It would be interesting to hear what the Magic Rack people would have to say about ball diameter, though, to be sure.
Click to expand...
Good luck getting room owners to agree to that, some of the ball sets where I play I'll bet are more than 30 years old maybe more than 40.
 
derangedhermit said:
I'm thinking of flat 1/8" to 1/4" metal plates - maybe even lexan with reinforcing fibers to reduce the coefficient of expansion.. One plate with a 2.245" round hole and another with a 2.255" hole. A handle would be nice, and a way to put it on top of a 5-gallon bucket.
So, does someone offer gauges like this?
Click to expand...

Man... you're splitting hairs. A human hair is .003. Some balls aren't even that round.
To make a gauge like you're talking about at room temperature would surely expand or contract.
The 2.245 diameter would be 2.255 in the sun.

The best way to measure a ball is an indicator.
A dial indicator mounted on a stand and set to "0" with 2.250 height (Jo blocks) gages.
Just roll the ball under the indicator, turning it each time.
Not only will you check the diameter but it will give you the roundness of the ball.

Another thought.....
How about the weight? I've seen some smaller diameter balls that are heavier than larger balls.
 
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Ralph Kramden said:
Man... you're splitting hairs. A human hair is .003. Some balls aren't even that round.
To make a gauge like you're talking about at room temperature would surely expand or contract.
The 2.245 diameter would be 2.255 in the sun.

The best way to measure a ball is an indicator.
A dial indicator mounted on a stand and set to "0" with 2.250 height (Jo blocks) gages.
Just roll the ball under the indicator, turning it each time.
Not only will you check the diameter but it will give you the roundness of the ball.

Another thought.....
How about the weight? I've seen some smaller diameter balls that are heavier than larger balls.
Click to expand...
Phenolic resin (without fillers) has a thermal coefficent of expansion of 44x10-6 (0.000044) per degree F. An Aramith pool ball that is 2.245 (the minimum size) at 60 degrees would expand to about 2.245 + (2.245*20*.000044) when heated to 80 degrees F. That comes out to 2.247 - still well in spec, and still on the small side.

Polyester resin (used by some other manufacturers) expands about 50% more than phenolic. If either resin is reinforced with fiber filler, the expansion rate drops by half or more.

I would expect the balls are made in (or for) a temperature-controlled environment, and should be measured at room temperature. If I made a mistake somewhere in the math, I'm sure it will be pointed out.:grin:

Dropping a ball through a hole is simple enough a waitress or bartender can do it during spare time. You can also check ballpark roundness by eyeball using the hole.

Weight is allowed (by the BCA/WPA) to vary a lot: from 5.5 oz to 6 oz. One could easily measure this on a $30 digital kitchen scale. I guess they let the weight vary so much so different materials (with different costs) can be used. I would expect a set made of the same material to be of consistent weight.

I think changing from using 6 oz balls to 5.5 oz (or vice versa) would affect your play, until you adjusted to the difference in weight. That's almost 10%, and I bet people can notice the difference. Probably more noticeable is how "dead" some cheap bar table sets are. I call them mud balls.
 
The ball gauge specification

Here's what I sent out for a quote. I picked 8.5"x5.25" as the size so it would fit in a $5 USPS Priority Mail small box.

"Specifications:
Each gauge is a 8.50" x 5.25" rectangle of 0.1875" (3/16") smooth plate aluminum. If 3/16" is not a standard thickness, use something that is close. I don't think the alloy matters, so something inexpensive.

I'll refer to the machining using the bottom left of the plate as (0", 0") and right top as (8.50", 5.25").

On one side, cut two arcs completely across the plate based on a circle centered at the center of the plate (4.250", 2.625") . The OD of the arcs is 6.750", the ID is 6.500", the depth is 0.0625" (or thereabouts, it's not critical - 0.060" is fine). (These are so the plate can be put on top of a gallon paint can and not slide off).

Cut three circles in the plate as drop-through ball gauges. The size and locations are:
2.245" circle centered at (2.875", 1.500")
2.250" circle centered at (4.250", 3.750")
2.255" circle centered at (5.575", 1.500")

Anodize the plate. Black, red, or blue is fine.

Engrave the size of each circle in approximately 0.50" tall sans-serif numbers on the plate."

We'll see what comes back. Suggestions for improvement welcome.
 
derangedhermit said:
Here's what I sent out for a quote. I picked 8.5"x5.25" as the size so it would fit in a $5 USPS Priority Mail small box.

"Specifications:
Each gauge is a 8.50" x 5.25" rectangle of 0.1875" (3/16") smooth plate aluminum. If 3/16" is not a standard thickness, use something that is close. I don't think the alloy matters, so something inexpensive.

I'll refer to the machining using the bottom left of the plate as (0", 0") and right top as (8.50", 5.25").

On one side, cut two arcs completely across the plate based on a circle centered at the center of the plate (4.250", 2.625") . The OD of the arcs is 6.750", the ID is 6.500", the depth is 0.0625" (or thereabouts, it's not critical - 0.060" is fine). (These are so the plate can be put on top of a gallon paint can and not slide off).

Cut three circles in the plate as drop-through ball gauges. The size and locations are:
2.245" circle centered at (2.875", 1.500")
2.250" circle centered at (4.250", 3.750")
2.255" circle centered at (5.575", 1.500")

Anodize the plate. Black, red, or blue is fine.

Engrave the size of each circle in approximately 0.50" tall sans-serif numbers on the plate."

We'll see what comes back. Suggestions for improvement welcome.
Click to expand...


Sounds interesting. Whatever comes out put me down for one.

Sure like to hear what Bob Jewett's gauge looks like...

Lou Figueroa
 
It's been my experience the with 3C balls played on a public table that's kept clean but the balls see 2-3 hours of play per day they will wear down about .5mm (.01968") in less than 1 year and its time to consider a new set.

My set which maybe has 15 games on a public table the past year measure 61.3mm, down .2mm measured off my calibrated Starrett Dial Caliper.

I'd say with public tables the balls need to be pitched after 6 months since most tables rarely get cleaned.

Your gage is a nice idea but if the room owners cared about that they'd already be taking care of their tables. But maybe only 1 in 25 customers would notice and apprecieate the effort.
 
derangedhermit said:
Phenolic resin (without fillers) has a thermal coefficent of expansion of 44x10-6 (0.000044) per degree F. An Aramith pool ball that is 2.245 (the minimum size) at 60 degrees would expand to about 2.245 + (2.245*20*.000044) when heated to 80 degrees F. That comes out to 2.247 - still well in spec, and still on the small side.

Polyester resin (used by some other manufacturers) expands about 50% more than phenolic. If either resin is reinforced with fiber filler, the expansion rate drops by half or more.

I would expect the balls are made in (or for) a temperature-controlled environment, and should be measured at room temperature. If I made a mistake somewhere in the math, I'm sure it will be pointed out.:grin:

Dropping a ball through a hole is simple enough a waitress or bartender can do it during spare time. You can also check ballpark roundness by eyeball using the hole.

Weight is allowed (by the BCA/WPA) to vary a lot: from 5.5 oz to 6 oz. One could easily measure this on a $30 digital kitchen scale. I guess they let the weight vary so much so different materials (with different costs) can be used. I would expect a set made of the same material to be of consistent weight.

I think changing from using 6 oz balls to 5.5 oz (or vice versa) would affect your play, until you adjusted to the difference in weight. That's almost 10%, and I bet people can notice the difference. Probably more noticeable is how "dead" some cheap bar table sets are. I call them mud balls.
Click to expand...

You said you were thinking of making a gauge from metal plate.
Unlike the phonelic balls, metal will expand and contract.

If you can find someone to bore holes in any kind of resin and hold
the tolerances you're talking about he's a more than a magician.
Holes with your dimensions in metal is OK, but costly to do.

As far as eyeballing less than .010 thru a hole, you better have a
super light source, good eyes and a suction cup to hold the balls.

New balls have dimension variances as what you want to check.

Good luck....
Even at that you won't be able to judge any tolerances that close.
 
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Ralph Kramden said:
You said you were thinking of making a gauge from metal plate.
Unlike the phonelic balls, metal will expand and contract.

If you can find someone to bore holes in any kind of resin and hold
the tolerances you're talking about he's a more than a magician.
Holes with your dimensions in metal is OK, but costly to do.
Click to expand...
Aluminum has a thermal coefficent of expansion of 12x10-6 (0.000012) per degree F, about 1/4 that of phenolic resin - so I think that's OK. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html

You may be right about the cost. I'm not a machinist.
 
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