So many pool halls closing! People doing so many other things now, computers, cell phones, video games, and several other things! How do you think pool can be saved in the USA?
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
How do you think pool can be saved across the USA?
- Thread starter Lock N Load
- Start date
Im not sure what the answer is but i think if you run any type of pool hall you need to attract a wider range of people not just pool players.
I think a establishment needs to have Bar and grill .You cannot make it just off tables.Running leagues,pool tournaments,card tournaments,contest for pool player. Owners need to find ways to draw people in.
I know this is probably crazy talk but i thought if some how regular pool league could some how be joined with the pro,s.
Ex . Say so much of your money that you paid in at your league would go to some pro funding and return maybe once or twice during your league a pro would stop through and give a lesson camp or some kinda Exhibition. Could work i think.
Legalize the cherry masters nationwide and the pool rooms may prosper again... I know when the City put the kibosh on them here we lost 2 rooms and several others were hurting to keep the doors open..... Several years later we have no rooms to really speak of.... One sportsbar... One bar table dive and the old action room has barely got the doors open and is in such disrepair that it's starting to be mostly tumbleweeds
More TV coverage for pool, which includes:
* No wearing 20 year old jeans and a sweater in the finals of major tournaments, wtf is that about anyway? I play in my small country's national league and we all HAVE to wear black leather shoes, black pants(the ones that you wear with a suit), a one-colored shirt, not a t-shirt.
The dress code just changes so much, IMO.
* A character that is entertaining to watch. Look at snooker and Ronnie O'Sullivan. He almost single-handedly made snooker as popular in the UK as it is today.
* No wearing 20 year old jeans and a sweater in the finals of major tournaments, wtf is that about anyway? I play in my small country's national league and we all HAVE to wear black leather shoes, black pants(the ones that you wear with a suit), a one-colored shirt, not a t-shirt.
The dress code just changes so much, IMO.
* A character that is entertaining to watch. Look at snooker and Ronnie O'Sullivan. He almost single-handedly made snooker as popular in the UK as it is today.
I had similar thought about joining pro and leagues together like in your statement but after talking to a cpl of industry guys they have tried to do similar things and either the pros are not interested or they won't come thru on their end....
Maybe the new crop of pros have a chance to change things... sadly too many of the old guard are too young to disappear fast enough for changes to occur very quickly.......
I've been playing pool for at least 45 years and how to promote/save pool has always been a topic of conversation. Back in pre-1960 pool had nearly died. The Hustler saved it then and pool flourished for awhile. Just before The Color Of Money pool had started to really decline again.
Now, even a strong pool movie wouldn't give pool much of a boost. The fact is to run a successful pool room you must have a good location. Good locations are normally expensive. The physical space needed for pool tables dictates a large physical facility. Large spaces are expensive. Add the high cost of utilities and soon it becomes apparent that pool halls are not a good investment.
Pool venues are closing faster than new ones are popping up. Every time this topic comes up posters seem to think that promoting pro pool is the answer. It's not, IMO. The promotion and the future of pool is in the hands of room operators willing to heavily promote leagues.
Now, even a strong pool movie wouldn't give pool much of a boost. The fact is to run a successful pool room you must have a good location. Good locations are normally expensive. The physical space needed for pool tables dictates a large physical facility. Large spaces are expensive. Add the high cost of utilities and soon it becomes apparent that pool halls are not a good investment.
Pool venues are closing faster than new ones are popping up. Every time this topic comes up posters seem to think that promoting pro pool is the answer. It's not, IMO. The promotion and the future of pool is in the hands of room operators willing to heavily promote leagues.
the idea you refer to as crazy is championed by Mark Griffin
a man with the money,vision,plan and intense desire to promote pool in such a way as to combine the best of what the leagues have going for them,including the huge and stable participation,with the money and fan base to enable a feasible solution to the problem of the declining interest and dwindling money to support a structure that could support and attend a class operation with the possibility to provide pros some valid reason for optimism
self interest,and cronyism stand in the way and hold out hope for more of the same lackluster programs that are dwindling interest and opportunity
any other valid hope fails to come to mind,enlighten me if i am missing something
dean
a man with the money,vision,plan and intense desire to promote pool in such a way as to combine the best of what the leagues have going for them,including the huge and stable participation,with the money and fan base to enable a feasible solution to the problem of the declining interest and dwindling money to support a structure that could support and attend a class operation with the possibility to provide pros some valid reason for optimism
self interest,and cronyism stand in the way and hold out hope for more of the same lackluster programs that are dwindling interest and opportunity
any other valid hope fails to come to mind,enlighten me if i am missing something
dean
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+ 1 for TV coverage!
Poker exploded when they televised the WSOP (with cameras showing the cards)
I used to watch women play pool on TV, got to know all their names. I didnt know the male players until I got to AZB!
+ 1 for interesting personalities in pool, and for a great "rivalry" , or two, but you cant force that, i think it has to happen naturally...
[doesnt have to be just tournaments on TV either, they do "high stakes" poker where the players put real cash on the table. High Stakes pool would be great, but the piles of cash have to be on camera so the viewers know whats at stake]
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Apa!!!!
its up to the APA to keep people in touch..., If the APA grows, then pool has a chance to grow, we have to keep people that can play interested in the game, to do that they have to feel like they can win sometimes.
As long as they are winning sometimes, they will want to come back and some will want to improve, maybe play in the BCA or try some local tourny's. We have to promote from with-in or we are all in big trouble.
its up to the APA to keep people in touch..., If the APA grows, then pool has a chance to grow, we have to keep people that can play interested in the game, to do that they have to feel like they can win sometimes.
As long as they are winning sometimes, they will want to come back and some will want to improve, maybe play in the BCA or try some local tourny's. We have to promote from with-in or we are all in big trouble.
actually the APA may be part of the answer... If a national league could be organized along the lines of the EBPF with different levels and a path for progression and it could replace the APA which has done little that does not serve it's own self interest of lining it's owners pockets maybe pool would have a chance...
More TV coverage for sure. Boot the people who misbehave at tournaments. It isn't a circus, or at least shouldn't be. Yes that means you-know-who as well. I simply makes the sport look bad.
Proper dress for professional and amateur events should be a requirement.
Leagues? Forget it. Not for growing and supporting pool halls.
Tournaments? Forget it. Not for growing and supporting pool halls.
I played one season in an amateur league about 13 or 14 years ago, and it was horrible. It was my first "return" to the game in years and it sucked. I actually played pretty well, but the BS was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I wasn't used to the league scene which didn't help matters but had a lot of experience at pool outside of it.
I see teams, clubs, leagues etc as EXCLUSIONARY, and I think the general public does as well. Walk into a place where you don't belong to the team/league/club etc and you will simply feel like you don't belong. And IMHO in pool they, the people involved, very much make you feel like you don't belong, even if they don't admit or realize it.
You have to expect and accept that the vast majority of the customers will not be interested in being involved in the tournaments or leagues. Learn to cater to them and you will develop a customer base if you have a good location. I mean we are talking about brick and mortar business here so location is of utmost importance.
Get family atmosphere going. Encourage the kids. Get corporate involvement. We used to do corporate golf outings for charity...why not pool?
Those are just my spontaneous thoughts on the matter. Feel free to tear it apart...or not..... :smile:
Proper dress for professional and amateur events should be a requirement.
Leagues? Forget it. Not for growing and supporting pool halls.
Tournaments? Forget it. Not for growing and supporting pool halls.
I played one season in an amateur league about 13 or 14 years ago, and it was horrible. It was my first "return" to the game in years and it sucked. I actually played pretty well, but the BS was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I wasn't used to the league scene which didn't help matters but had a lot of experience at pool outside of it.
I see teams, clubs, leagues etc as EXCLUSIONARY, and I think the general public does as well. Walk into a place where you don't belong to the team/league/club etc and you will simply feel like you don't belong. And IMHO in pool they, the people involved, very much make you feel like you don't belong, even if they don't admit or realize it.
You have to expect and accept that the vast majority of the customers will not be interested in being involved in the tournaments or leagues. Learn to cater to them and you will develop a customer base if you have a good location. I mean we are talking about brick and mortar business here so location is of utmost importance.
Get family atmosphere going. Encourage the kids. Get corporate involvement. We used to do corporate golf outings for charity...why not pool?
Those are just my spontaneous thoughts on the matter. Feel free to tear it apart...or not..... :smile:
TV coverage is really the end result of other things occurring. Why can a sport like bowling, which isn't particularly spectator friendly, have a relatively long term on television?
Because they can go to the network executives with a stable organization where they can present one tour of a set number dates that accommodates the programming gaps for the network.
Why have collegiate athletic conferences undergone all of this recent realignment? One reason is to have conglomerations to present to the networks. Regional conferences expand into other time zones to present more broadcast options to the network. More branding opportunities.
Poker is another example of success by forming a tour where they can present the stars of the game in a format that is network friendly.
Television is a great vehicle, even in our current era, but network people are there to make money. If you can't do things in a fashion that suits their needs, they aren't going to give you a platform. I agree that television has the ability to give the sport a shot in the arm, but that won't happen until the sport cleans its own house, so to speak.
Leagues are vital to the industry. There's obviously a lot of bad to be said for leagues, but pool halls stay in business because of them. Anything that can keep people playing pool is only going to give the game a chance to grow. How many players began playing because someone they knew played the game. Most of us, I think it fair to say.
Youth is important, but getting them involved is highly problematic. For starters, alcohol is strongly tied to pool. That's a catch-22 because establishments often depend on alcohol sales to support the room, but that obviously limits the ability for minors to enjoy the game. Secondly, we build our communities to be specialized. What I mean is, instead of building small communities with the amenities of life located nearby we tend to specialize. We often live in one area and commute to other areas to acquire merchandise, work, or play. Obviously that makes it difficult for players to play who can't make those often long commutes. Finally, we're a stagnant society. We have entertainment options at our fingertips and that's had a big impact on entertainment options of all kinds.
Pool is principally a participant and not spectator sport. IMO, while advertisement of the sport can help facilitate the idea of trying the game it is really the opportunities and incentives one can present to participants that will decide the game's fate.
Because they can go to the network executives with a stable organization where they can present one tour of a set number dates that accommodates the programming gaps for the network.
Why have collegiate athletic conferences undergone all of this recent realignment? One reason is to have conglomerations to present to the networks. Regional conferences expand into other time zones to present more broadcast options to the network. More branding opportunities.
Poker is another example of success by forming a tour where they can present the stars of the game in a format that is network friendly.
Television is a great vehicle, even in our current era, but network people are there to make money. If you can't do things in a fashion that suits their needs, they aren't going to give you a platform. I agree that television has the ability to give the sport a shot in the arm, but that won't happen until the sport cleans its own house, so to speak.
Leagues are vital to the industry. There's obviously a lot of bad to be said for leagues, but pool halls stay in business because of them. Anything that can keep people playing pool is only going to give the game a chance to grow. How many players began playing because someone they knew played the game. Most of us, I think it fair to say.
Youth is important, but getting them involved is highly problematic. For starters, alcohol is strongly tied to pool. That's a catch-22 because establishments often depend on alcohol sales to support the room, but that obviously limits the ability for minors to enjoy the game. Secondly, we build our communities to be specialized. What I mean is, instead of building small communities with the amenities of life located nearby we tend to specialize. We often live in one area and commute to other areas to acquire merchandise, work, or play. Obviously that makes it difficult for players to play who can't make those often long commutes. Finally, we're a stagnant society. We have entertainment options at our fingertips and that's had a big impact on entertainment options of all kinds.
Pool is principally a participant and not spectator sport. IMO, while advertisement of the sport can help facilitate the idea of trying the game it is really the opportunities and incentives one can present to participants that will decide the game's fate.
So simple-free water.
It's kinda simple, really.
The old model of a traditional pool hall is no longer valid. You need big tables for the serious guys, lot's of bar tables for the leagues, darts, Golden Tee, quality liquor, and decent food. There needs to be enough tables for tournaments. There needs to be decent seating for sweating and eating. You need to have your room arranged so that everyone can enjoy themselves, without interfering with each other. Making instruction and the occasional exhibition available wouldn't hurt. And you need to be able to rent out at least portions of your space for private parties. Oh yeah, and lots of TVs. Maybe some soft rock/jazz on the stereo system to supplement the internet jukebox.
The old model pool room is DOA.
Lou Figueroa
Or you can hire women like the one in your avatar as waitresses!
Most leagues are for profit (capitalism) and expansion but if the APA and other leagues such as the BCAPL teamed up it might work. The APA caters to the lower skill levels while the BCA the higher skills. It gives players an avenue to progress and if they just want to play for fun it works too. The TAP and VNEA leagues could also be incorporated by having jurisdictions for each league county by county. While I know this is a pipe dream it could work if these league leaders could work together for everyone's benefit including their own.
The only way to grow this sport is through the amateur players and bangers. Until we embrace this overwhelmingly large group of people this sport will remain where it's at, on life support dying a slow death.
copy the world series of poker. One big event annually with big buy ins and lots of added money. You'd have to have a lot of money added because you'll need something to convince players/sponsors to fork over large buy-ins. To do that, you better payout pretty well down the line. Come the finals of the main event, stack the actual cash right out in the open for the players to spy and drool over.
Come up with the plan and approach a network. Forget ESPN. They aren't interested and do a craptastic job of covering pool anyway. Hell, bring Mark Cuban and his HDNet on board. Tell him he can take the rights and shop them in Asia.
I know, I know .. pipe dreams
Come up with the plan and approach a network. Forget ESPN. They aren't interested and do a craptastic job of covering pool anyway. Hell, bring Mark Cuban and his HDNet on board. Tell him he can take the rights and shop them in Asia.
I know, I know .. pipe dreams
Get rid of the APA, ACS, BCAPL, and have just ONE Pool Governing Body to oversee all Pool Events, be they pro or amateur. :smile:
Have one set of STANDARD RULES for Each Game like One Pocket, 8 Ball, etc., :smile:
Last if any promoter want to hold a Big Pool Event like the Desert Shootout like we had in Phoenix Arizona was it 3 or 4 years ago.
Have the Governing Body Guarantee the Advertised FUNDS, so Winner, Placers, TD's Venue Holder will get more than a promise of payment, rubber checks, or news the promoter skipped town & is no where to be found.
Have one set of STANDARD RULES for Each Game like One Pocket, 8 Ball, etc., :smile:
Last if any promoter want to hold a Big Pool Event like the Desert Shootout like we had in Phoenix Arizona was it 3 or 4 years ago.
Have the Governing Body Guarantee the Advertised FUNDS, so Winner, Placers, TD's Venue Holder will get more than a promise of payment, rubber checks, or news the promoter skipped town & is no where to be found.
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Estonia! You don't see that every day!! I am 1/4 Estonian...my mother's family had to flee the country when Stalin invaded and began 'cleansing'. She never saw her father or brother again...both being sent to the Gulag.
Nice post,btw!
Lisa