Question about Kinister's shot# 1

pmata814 said:
Chinchilla...thx so much for your comments. I agree with you on the soft stroke comment. I've always felt my consistency go up dramatically when I shoot with only enough speed to pocket the OB. I know Bert is using this shot as a stroke builder, but like you, I find it so much easier, and more in control, to shoot this with more low and less speed :)

I also agree that you have to analyze Bert's videos and try to decipher for yourself what point he's trying to get across. A lot of times he seems to contradict himself from one video to the next. For example in one of the videos he tells his student to put the tip on the table, then raise it just a bit and "that's how low you have to hit it in order to get table length draw" then in another video he says you must hit the ball no more "than a tip below center" in order to achieve full length draw. ???? He goes on to say something to the effect of the ball 'skipping' along the table, like 'stones on a pond', when u strike the ball too low. Can't remember exactly. I'd have to go back and check it again.

That's why I post my questions here to get the input of other players/instructors to help me understand. And I greatly appreciate all the input. :D

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The Big Bang was the biggest bust. A few tapes later he recommended not doing what demonstrated on that tape. Overall his stuff is helpful.

Bob Henning has basically the same shots in his Pro Book series. The book has all of those shots outlined with the boundaries that they can be made with.



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Funny observation.

Heres what i see with this post. This shot isnt easy and takes us out of a comfort zone and puts you in a state of failure. Thats where most people say ah i see no need for this and move on. As stated earlier. This is a true stroke builder. You spend the time with this shot and figure out the difference in the hit u need to make and how to adjust. Its more than a shot. Its a journey of mental and physical patience. The basis of this game we play. If you dedicate the time to master any drill that expirience will be with u for life. Stepping out of those easy shots gives u a pressure test on a repetative basis. One of berts main themes on all drills is the pressure that builds as u get close to completing a drill. It gives u a gametime pressure that we rareley achieve in a practice environment. I play with guys that say oh i hit balls for 2 - 3 hours a day. That great but they never get any pressure training. They get in league or tourney situation and get beat cause they choke. Just my observation.
 
I'm really glad I posted this question. It generated great discussion and I've learned a lot. Thanks so much for all the responses! :)

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pmata814 said:
Does anyone know why Kinsiter makes such a big deal about the CB taking the place of the OB on his Shot #1 of the 60 minute workout? Basically it's the CB and the OB 4 diamonds apart straight in to the corner pocket. He really emphasizes that it is critical that the CB take the place of the OB. That I should see the CB just barely roll over to take its place.

I understand the importance of the stop shot and I've been practicing that every day for the last month (except I line the shot up corner to corner 3 diamonds apart.). The whole tangent line principle stems from the stop shot, checking for unwanted sidespin, making sure you're perfectly in line... great practice for my stroke...I get that. But having the CB just barely roll over from 4 diamonds out is super tough for me. I shot it 80 times today and probably just had 4 or 5 succesful attempts. I don't mind putting in the work, I just want to know how it's supposed to be helping. Even he in his later videos keeps referring to "shot #1" and it's just a stop shot or a straight in shot. Never once performing the ball replacement.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

P.S.
To make things even harder, in his video he says this shot should be performed with center ball. NOT to use draw. I'm not even trying that part. I still use some slight draw on the CB because I'd really have to slam the CB with only center ball.
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In the video he says that the speed required to shoot a center ball shot that distance and replace the cue ball is the max speed you will need to play all position in 9 ball. He wants you to get used to this stroke speed to know that you should not need more than that to get position, and allow you to shoot shots softer and morte accurate.

Over the past month I have tried to shoot this shot 100 times every other day, which takes about an hour, and I can say that it really helps my stroke quality, and gives great feedback as to how I am striking the CB.
 
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bert kinisters shot no. one

The reason it is extraordinarily important to replace the object ball with cue ball is that it can only be done when hit at a single discreet speed. To play competative pool you need a gun that shoots straight and a bullit that travels at the speed the you want. To get there the fastest way possible is to first shoot a center ball stop shot until you are able to stop the ball perfectly one ball away from the object ball 30% of the time. Now you have a gun that shoots straight. When you can do this go on to replace the ball 30% of the time and you will have a bullit whose speed you can control. When Niels Fiejen first came to me as a teenager I told him to go back to Holland and come back when he could do this and we would have something to work with. He went home and shot this shot 750,000 to 1,000,000 times before returning. When I invented the shot 40 years ago I shot it 1000 times a day for over 4 months I was over 60,000 shots into it before I realized the incredible good that comes from it. yes pool is hard, if it was not everybody could do it. That is what makes it great! All of my students who have taken the time to learn this shot have taken many years off of the learning curve and have learned a great deal about themselves in the process. There are only 3 kinds of people in the world. Doers, talkers and dreamers. Only the doers get paid.
 
Cheers. To that.

Ding Dong Daddy said:
The reason it is extraordinarily important to replace the object ball with cue ball is that it can only be done when hit at a single discreet speed. To play competative pool you need a gun that shoots straight and a bullit that travels at the speed the you want. To get there the fastest way possible is to first shoot a center ball stop shot until you are able to stop the ball perfectly one ball away from the object ball 30% of the time. Now you have a gun that shoots straight. When you can do this go on to replace the ball 30% of the time and you will have a bullit whose speed you can control. When Niels Fiejen first came to me as a teenager I told him to go back to Holland and come back when he could do this and we would have something to work with. He went home and shot this shot 750,000 to 1,000,000 times before returning. When I invented the shot 40 years ago I shot it 1000 times a day for over 4 months I was over 60,000 shots into it before I realized the incredible good that comes from it. yes pool is hard, if it was not everybody could do it. That is what makes it great! All of my students who have taken the time to learn this shot have taken many years off of the learning curve and have learned a great deal about themselves in the process. There are only 3 kinds of people in the world. Doers, talkers and dreamers. Only the doers get paid.
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Cheers Bert glad. To see. U shed ur reasoning on shot 1.
 
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