Calling Bob Jewett or Dr. Dave. Jumping the cueball off a rail.

A

AimWithYourMind

Banned
Many of you may know the answer to this as well. This is a shot that I have never found an answer to.

I am referring to a kick shot, where you are elevating, so the cueball jumps after it contacts the first rail.

My question is concerned when you are conducting this kick shot at an angle, say 30 degrees.

Does jumping the ball off of the rail cause the rebound angle to change? Is the rebound angle shorter or longer?

I could test this out on my table, but I cannot be certain that I am hitting the cueball the same every time.

I am hoping that Bob or Dr. Dave have a definite answer to this question.
 
It's certain that if you have enough height on the cue ball when it hits the cushion the shot will go long. For minor amounts of jump, it's not so clear. In general a low cushion nose -- which it is relative to a ball in flight -- makes the angle play short. My guess is: shorter for small hops and longer for higher attacks.
 
AimWithYourMind said:
Many of you may know the answer to this as well. This is a shot that I have never found an answer to.

I am referring to a kick shot, where you are elevating, so the cueball jumps after it contacts the first rail.

My question is concerned when you are conducting this kick shot at an angle, say 30 degrees.

Does jumping the ball off of the rail cause the rebound angle to change? Is the rebound angle shorter or longer?

I could test this out on my table, but I cannot be certain that I am hitting the cueball the same every time.

I am hoping that Bob or Dr. Dave have a definite answer to this question.
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I don't see how there can be a definite answer. Its dependent on speed, more speed makes the angle longer. When elevated it jumps into the rail, with more speed it jumps more causing the c/b to hit the rail higher which will produce a longer rebound angle. Of course how much your elevated is another factor. At some point whitey ends up across the room.

Rod
 
Longer no question I would say by a lot most likely not even controllable if you hit the cue hard enough to make it jump off the first rail at a 30% degree angle. If I am understanding what you are saying, and I think I am. We shall see what Mr. Jewett or Dr. Dave has to say.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's certain that if you have enough height on the cue ball when it hits the cushion the shot will go long. For minor amounts of jump, it's not so clear. In general a low cushion nose -- which it is relative to a ball in flight -- makes the angle play short. My guess is: shorter for small hops and longer for higher attacks.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I am not understanding the question. The OP is saying that he is (jumping the cue ball after it hits the rail) I think, where it seems that you are saying what will happen if you jump it into the rail. Am I right or am I the one who is misunderstanding the OP question?

What I think he is talking about is the shot where you are usually bridging over a ball jacked up to hit the cue ball usually at close to a 90% angle to the rail to jump the cue ball up after it hits the rail and over the ball you were bridging over in the first place. But he wants to do it at a 30 % angle to the rail which really won't work I don't think.
 
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itsfroze said:
Perhaps I am not understanding the question. The OP is saying that he is jumping the cue ball after it hits the rail I think, where it seems that you are saying what will happen if you jump it into the rail. Am I right or am I the one who is misunderstanding the OP question?
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I understood the OP to mean that the cue ball was jumping off the cushion because it was not on the cloth when it hit the cushion, presumably due to cue stick elevation and fairly high speed.

If that is what the OP meant, here is a trick shot: go into a cushion at 45 degrees and make the the cue ball come down following along that cushion. This has probably already been invented, but I don't recall seeing it recently.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I understood the OP to mean that the cue ball was jumping off the cushion because it was not on the cloth when it hit the cushion, presumably due to cue stick elevation and fairly high speed.

If that is what the OP meant, here is a trick shot: go into a cushion at 45 degrees and make the the cue ball come down following along that cushion. This has probably already been invented, but I don't recall seeing it recently.
Click to expand...

I am referring to a kick shot where you are elevating slightly. So that AFTER contact with the first cushion, the cueball will jump over an object ball.

Bob, I will try that shot, I'm not sure what will happen.
 
AimWithYourMind said:
I am referring to a kick shot where you are elevating slightly. So that AFTER contact with the first cushion, the cueball will jump over an object ball.

Bob, I will try that shot, I'm not sure what will happen.
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You can do that, might take a number of tries though. Unlike present days people forget that jump cues were not around. I've straightened out short angles off a rail too jump over balls and hit a ball at the other end of the table near or in a pocket.

Rod
 
Rod said:
You can do that, might take a number of tries though. Unlike present days people forget that jump cues were not around. I've straightened out short angles off a rail too jump over balls and hit a ball at the other end of the table near or in a pocket.

Rod
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You are right but he is talking about going into the rail at a 30% angle and he can not do it at that angle.
 
Jumping off of a rail means that either the CB is contacting the rail below the mid-point, or that there is a lot of top. Most jumps off of the rail are done with a slightly jacked-up hit, so that there's a little hop. That means that the angle is going to be amplified and go long since it is contacting the CB below center. Not only that, but it will generate a spin on the CB that will lengthen it even more after grabbing the felt on the rebound. *At least, that's my experience with this shot. Individual results may vary. Please consult a physician before engaging in any physically challenging exercise.
 
AimWithYourMind said:
I am referring to a kick shot where you are elevating slightly. So that AFTER contact with the first cushion, the cueball will jump over an object ball.
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In order for the CB to jump over another ball after hitting the rail it must have jumped into the rail.

I think you can get a small amount of jump off the rail with only extreme follow, but not much.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
In order for the CB to jump over another ball after hitting the rail it must have jumped into the rail.

I think you can get a small amount of jump off the rail with only extreme follow, but not much.

pj
chgo
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It depends on the cushion. I've played on a rec center table with low, sticky cushions on which you could catapult the cue ball onto the table behind you without much effort. I agree that normal cushions don't hop much.

I tried the shot I described above a little. In a few attempts I managed to get a 45-degree shot maybe 15 degrees longer but it was not close to parallel to the cushion I hit. The cue ball was already going pretty fast, to the extent I was afraid I'd end up on the floor. More experimenting is needed.
 
There was a time when I was very good at these shots.

As has been said there are many variables.

As a generalization those variables become less important at narrow angles and much more important as the angle widens.

As a generalization I would say as the angle of approach widens the shot tends to go longer....but that is not 100% for sure as there are numerous variables.

On tables that I knew well I once could be very consistent with these shots even at wider angles, but if I didn't know the table the numerous variables generally confounded any consistency more and more as the angle widened.

At zero angle (straight into the cushion) the variables become almost negligible and I think I can probably still jump a ball straight back to me off a cushion as far as I like without substantial practice as long as the table/cushion specs are within reasonable limits.

I am no expert....this is just what I experienced....and the tables have changed a bit since I was playing much.

I tried to let the experts reply first since it was their input that was specifically asked for. I didn't want to "pollute" the early thread.



.
 
I have seen a player use this 'hop' to lengthen a kick angle when trying to make a hit. The 'in-angle' was around 45 deg.

It worked.

-s
 
Neil said:
It can be done Bob. I did it on the 4th try, but was too high and hit the back of the pocket and went off table. I started at the 2nd diamond on the long rail at the other end of the table. So, with practice,I think that it could become a viable alternative.
The trick would be being able to hit it softer and still keep it parallel so it doesn't go so far. Not sure that can be done, but it should be able to work.
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So it is probably easier with a jump stick -- get good height with little speed. If only I had a jump stick.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I understood the OP to mean that the cue ball was jumping off the cushion because it was not on the cloth when it hit the cushion, presumably due to cue stick elevation and fairly high speed.

If that is what the OP meant, here is a trick shot: go into a cushion at 45 degrees and make the the cue ball come down following along that cushion. This has probably already been invented, but I don't recall seeing it recently.
Click to expand...

Bob, this may be what you are looking for jeff's pool shots m4v or do a search on you tube jeff olney this was the first one i did but check out the 5 others too. Jeff O
 
jeff olney said:
Bob, this may be what you are looking for jeff's pool shots m4v or do a search on you tube jeff olney this was the first one i did but check out the 5 others too. Jeff O
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Hi Jeff,
Yes that's it. Here is the direct link: http://youtu.be/QeJ3p5kRqrM?t=1m29s

I tried this some more, and the trick to keeping the cue ball on the table is to start nearer the cushion than I was trying. I managed to go straight into the side pocket once.
 
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