Shaft matching

[acousticsguru]

I've never come across a tight straight grain dark maple I didn't like.

One thing is certain: it feels different to the touch. More like a super-fine, hard micro-burnishing film, whereas that white stuff used all over feels so soft, one has to keep one's finger nails off it to be sure not to dent it. The dark, hard stuff sounds like wood to build instruments with, whereas the white stuff makes a thumping noise that sounds as if it had some damping material in it.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[MVPCues]

I am going to have to disagree with this statement. If a tree grows in a colder climate with longer winters it's going to have tighter grain than the same species grown in a warmer one. Consequently the wood will be denser.

You are mixing two things here, which is never sound in scientific study. I won't argue whether sugar maple is more or less dense depending on what part of the world it is grown. I have not done any research or measured any samples of this, so I will remove this part of the equation.

There are two types of wood, in regards to annular ring composition. They are ring-porous woods, and diffuse-porous woods. Sugar maple is a diffuse-porous wood. Diffuse-porous woods have a cell structure that physically does not change across the annular ring. Both the earlywood and latewood growth have the same size vessels and pores, resulting in even water conductivity and tissue health. Here is a read from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood on the subject of annular ring composition.

Earlywood and latewood in ring-porous woods

In the case of the ring-porous hardwoods there seems to exist a pretty definite relation between the rate of growth of timber and its properties. This may be briefly summed up in the general statement that the more rapid the growth or the wider the rings of growth, the heavier, harder, stronger, and stiffer the wood. This, it must be remembered, applies only to ring-porous woods such as oak, ash, hickory, and others of the same group, and is, of course, subject to some exceptions and limitations.

In ring-porous woods of good growth it is usually the latewood in which the thick-walled, strength-giving fibers are most abundant. As the breadth of ring diminishes, this latewood is reduced so that very slow growth produces comparatively light, porous wood composed of thin-walled vessels and wood parenchyma. In good oak these large vessels of the earlywood occupy from 6 to 10 percent of the volume of the log, while in inferior material they may make up 25% or more. The latewood of good oak is dark colored and firm, and consists mostly of thick-walled fibers which form one-half or more of the wood. In inferior oak, this latewood is much reduced both in quantity and quality. Such variation is very largely the result of rate of growth.

Wide-ringed wood is often called "second-growth", because the growth of the young timber in open stands after the old trees have been removed is more rapid than in trees in a closed forest, and in the manufacture of articles where strength is an important consideration such "second-growth" hardwood material is preferred. This is particularly the case in the choice of hickory for handles and spokes. Here not only strength, but toughness and resilience are important. The results of a series of tests on hickory by the U.S. Forest Service show that:

"The work or shock-resisting ability is greatest in wide-ringed wood that has from 5 to 14 rings per inch (rings 1.8-5 mm thick), is fairly constant from 14 to 38 rings per inch (rings 0.7–1.8 mm thick), and decreases rapidly from 38 to 47 rings per inch (rings 0.5–0.7 mm thick). The strength at maximum load is not so great with the most rapid-growing wood; it is maximum with from 14 to 20 rings per inch (rings 1.3–1.8 mm thick), and again becomes less as the wood becomes more closely ringed. The natural deduction is that wood of first-class mechanical value shows from 5 to 20 rings per inch (rings 1.3–5 mm thick) and that slower growth yields poorer stock. Thus the inspector or buyer of hickory should discriminate against timber that has more than 20 rings per inch (rings less than 1.3 mm thick). Exceptions exist, however, in the case of normal growth upon dry situations, in which the slow-growing material may be strong and tough."[11]
The effect of rate of growth on the qualities of chestnut wood is summarised by the same authority as follows:

"When the rings are wide, the transition from spring wood to summer wood is gradual, while in the narrow rings the spring wood passes into summer wood abruptly. The width of the spring wood changes but little with the width of the annual ring, so that the narrowing or broadening of the annual ring is always at the expense of the summer wood. The narrow vessels of the summer wood make it richer in wood substance than the spring wood composed of wide vessels. Therefore, rapid-growing specimens with wide rings have more wood substance than slow-growing trees with narrow rings. Since the more the wood substance the greater the weight, and the greater the weight the stronger the wood, chestnuts with wide rings must have stronger wood than chestnuts with narrow rings. This agrees with the accepted view that sprouts (which always have wide rings) yield better and stronger wood than seedling chestnuts, which grow more slowly in diameter."[11]

*******Earlywood and latewood in diffuse-porous woods********

In the diffuse-porous woods, the demarcation between rings is not always so clear and in some cases is almost (if not entirely) invisible to the unaided eye. Conversely, when there is a clear demarcation there may not be a noticeable difference in structure within the growth ring.

In diffuse-porous woods, as has been stated, the vessels or pores are even-sized, so that the water conducting capability is scattered throughout the ring instead of collected in the earlywood. The effect of rate of growth is, therefore, not the same as in the ring-porous woods, approaching more nearly the conditions in the conifers. In general it may be stated that such woods of medium growth afford stronger material than when very rapidly or very slowly grown. In many uses of wood, total strength is not the main consideration. If ease of working is prized, wood should be chosen with regard to its uniformity of texture and straightness of grain, which will in most cases occur when there is little contrast between the latewood of one season's growth and the earlywood of the next.

If you take a large supply of shaft blanks from the same supplier, harvested from the same general area, and count the rings (count at both ends of the dowel and average) and weigh the dowels, then come up with an average weight across a rings per inch strata, you might be surprised. 200 to 400 dowels should be enough. I know when I did this, I was floored.

Stand dynamics (whether the tree is a dominate/co dominant, intermediate, or suppressed tree in a closed canopy or whether it is open grown, planting density, silvicultural treatments, etc) and water and nutrient availability will affect the health of the wood and the rings per inch. Healthy wood will be stronger and heavier. A 20 rpi shaft can either be healthy (heavy) or inferior (lightweight). An 8 rpi shaft can either be healthy (heavy) or inferior (lightweight).

This is just the way it is. There are scientific studies all the time regarding annualar ring densities as a result of various treatments. The cell structure across the annular ring for diffuse-porous woods, ie sugar maple, simply does not support the widely held theory. The earlywood and latewood phsyical properties in sugar maple are largely the same, other factors always come into play when discussing the density variation in sugar maple.

Kelly

 

[qbilder]

You are mixing two things here, which is never sound in scientific study.

Bingo!!!

I have cut wood along the Ohio river valley that makes 4.5oz. shafts & is extremely hard, pingy, & bright white. It varies from 6-8gpi to 30gpi in a single tree, depending on where at in the log it was cut from. The butt log, closest to the ground, will have the widest grain, especially on the south facing side. I can show you two shafts cut from the same tree that weigh exactly the same, share the same harmonics, but are 20gpi different.

I have cut logs that had a large brown heart & small white sap that produced a mix of brown & white shafts. The white are light & the brown very heavy, with the same range of GPI as mentioned above.

Point being, the quality of the wood is dependent on nothing but itself, not the tree it came from or even the region the tree grew. Come spend a few days with me & you'll quickly change your mind about what you think you know. It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo pseudo science that is more myth than reality. Go cut & mill your own trees & you'll learn how it really works.

 

[MVPCues]

Bingo!!!

I have cut wood along the Ohio river valley that makes 4.5oz. shafts & is extremely hard, pingy, & bright white. It varies from 6-8gpi to 30gpi in a single tree, depending on where at in the log it was cut from. The butt log, closest to the ground, will have the widest grain, especially on the south facing side. I can show you two shafts cut from the same tree that weigh exactly the same, share the same harmonics, but are 20gpi different.

I have cut logs that had a large brown heart & small white sap that produced a mix of brown & white shafts. The white are light & the brown very heavy, with the same range of GPI as mentioned above.

Point being, the quality of the wood is dependent on nothing but itself, not the tree it came from or even the region the tree grew. Come spend a few days with me & you'll quickly change your mind about what you think you know. It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo pseudo science that is more myth than reality. Go cut & mill your own trees & you'll learn how it really works.

Looking at just one cross sectional disc of the butt of a large tree and seeing that a section from the northern side of the tree significantly varies from the southern side of the tree in terms of rpi is eye opening. The pith of a tree is NOT directly in the middle of a large tree. :smile:

Kelly

 

[bdcues]

I am going to have to disagree with this statement. If a tree grows in a colder climate with longer winters it's going to have tighter grain than the same species grown in a warmer one. Consequently the wood will be denser.

Wrong, more growth rings does not mean denser. SW sorts shaft blanks by weight... not by growth rings. Final weight also has to do with how and when the wood is dried. Shafts that are quickly vacuum dried for white can be lighter and softer because of cell destruction during drying. Those that vacuum dry wood poorly outnumber those that vacuum dry wood well in my opinion.
As a maker of 6-pie laminated shafts I pick boards for many of the same reasons that others pick squares or dowels. Finding a 5 inch wide board with perfect grain from side to side/end to end with no knots, knot shadows, grain runout and 20+ gpi is just about impossible and the cost per board would be about $100.00. It takes one of these 5" boards to make one laminated shaft. Instead I get to buy boards that cost about $24.00 each, that do have some defects making them non useable, that have 8-10gpi and that I have to angle cut to match the grain. My fall rate is about 25-30% depending on supplier making my cost per board $30-32.00 each. Should I now sell finished laminated shafts for $80.00?
Does a laminated shaft with 20+gpi play better than one with 8? They may look prettier (or not) but as long as the quartered faces are all aligned there is not a difference in playability that I can perceive.

 

[Canadian cue]

When I choose shafts for a cue. It is because they are going to be good playing shafts! NOT because of how they look!!!

Let me ask everyone here 1 question????
When you are bending over the table shooting a shot, can you really see what the shafts looks like???? NO!!! If you are looking are the grain in the shaft when you are shooting a shot, then you are going to miss the ball!!!!

So for me its all about how there going to play! NOT WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE!!!!

So other than weight and tone how do you know it is a good playing shaft?

 

[Canadian cue]

I've never come across a tight straight grain dark maple I didn't like.
I do think somehow they need longer time to season than wide grain low count ones. It might be mental, but I let it be. I'm in no hurry. I have enough to get going for a while. More are coming I hope. Most of the ones I'm using now I've had for 5 years or more.
Wide low ring count ones do have one advantage, easy to align grains end to end. Ones they are lined up, they are pretty stable. Not too many guys fighting for room or pushing the other guys.
Call me crazy but that's what I've been seeing.

I have to say that in the batches of shaft wood I have processed the really white stuff is as you describe but have not turned enough to realy come to any solid conclusions.

 

[Canadian cue]

You are mixing two things here, which is never sound in scientific study. I won't argue whether sugar maple is more or less dense depending on what part of the world it is grown. I have not done any research or measured any samples of this, so I will remove this part of the equation.

There are two types of wood, in regards to annular ring composition. They are ring-porous woods, and diffuse-porous woods. Sugar maple is a diffuse-porous wood. Diffuse-porous woods have a cell structure that physically does not change across the annular ring. Both the earlywood and latewood growth have the same size vessels and pores, resulting in even water conductivity and tissue health. Here is a read from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood on the subject of annular ring composition.

Earlywood and latewood in ring-porous woods

In the case of the ring-porous hardwoods there seems to exist a pretty definite relation between the rate of growth of timber and its properties. This may be briefly summed up in the general statement that the more rapid the growth or the wider the rings of growth, the heavier, harder, stronger, and stiffer the wood. This, it must be remembered, applies only to ring-porous woods such as oak, ash, hickory, and others of the same group, and is, of course, subject to some exceptions and limitations.

In ring-porous woods of good growth it is usually the latewood in which the thick-walled, strength-giving fibers are most abundant. As the breadth of ring diminishes, this latewood is reduced so that very slow growth produces comparatively light, porous wood composed of thin-walled vessels and wood parenchyma. In good oak these large vessels of the earlywood occupy from 6 to 10 percent of the volume of the log, while in inferior material they may make up 25% or more. The latewood of good oak is dark colored and firm, and consists mostly of thick-walled fibers which form one-half or more of the wood. In inferior oak, this latewood is much reduced both in quantity and quality. Such variation is very largely the result of rate of growth.

Wide-ringed wood is often called "second-growth", because the growth of the young timber in open stands after the old trees have been removed is more rapid than in trees in a closed forest, and in the manufacture of articles where strength is an important consideration such "second-growth" hardwood material is preferred. This is particularly the case in the choice of hickory for handles and spokes. Here not only strength, but toughness and resilience are important. The results of a series of tests on hickory by the U.S. Forest Service show that:

"The work or shock-resisting ability is greatest in wide-ringed wood that has from 5 to 14 rings per inch (rings 1.8-5 mm thick), is fairly constant from 14 to 38 rings per inch (rings 0.7–1.8 mm thick), and decreases rapidly from 38 to 47 rings per inch (rings 0.5–0.7 mm thick). The strength at maximum load is not so great with the most rapid-growing wood; it is maximum with from 14 to 20 rings per inch (rings 1.3–1.8 mm thick), and again becomes less as the wood becomes more closely ringed. The natural deduction is that wood of first-class mechanical value shows from 5 to 20 rings per inch (rings 1.3–5 mm thick) and that slower growth yields poorer stock. Thus the inspector or buyer of hickory should discriminate against timber that has more than 20 rings per inch (rings less than 1.3 mm thick). Exceptions exist, however, in the case of normal growth upon dry situations, in which the slow-growing material may be strong and tough."[11]
The effect of rate of growth on the qualities of chestnut wood is summarised by the same authority as follows:

"When the rings are wide, the transition from spring wood to summer wood is gradual, while in the narrow rings the spring wood passes into summer wood abruptly. The width of the spring wood changes but little with the width of the annual ring, so that the narrowing or broadening of the annual ring is always at the expense of the summer wood. The narrow vessels of the summer wood make it richer in wood substance than the spring wood composed of wide vessels. Therefore, rapid-growing specimens with wide rings have more wood substance than slow-growing trees with narrow rings. Since the more the wood substance the greater the weight, and the greater the weight the stronger the wood, chestnuts with wide rings must have stronger wood than chestnuts with narrow rings. This agrees with the accepted view that sprouts (which always have wide rings) yield better and stronger wood than seedling chestnuts, which grow more slowly in diameter."[11]

*******Earlywood and latewood in diffuse-porous woods********



If you take a large supply of shaft blanks from the same supplier, harvested from the same general area, and count the rings (count at both ends of the dowel and average) and weigh the dowels, then come up with an average weight across a rings per inch strata, you might be surprised. 200 to 400 dowels should be enough. I know when I did this, I was floored.

Stand dynamics (whether the tree is a dominate/co dominant, intermediate, or suppressed tree in a closed canopy or whether it is open grown, planting density, silvicultural treatments, etc) and water and nutrient availability will affect the health of the wood and the rings per inch. Healthy wood will be stronger and heavier. A 20 rpi shaft can either be healthy (heavy) or inferior (lightweight). An 8 rpi shaft can either be healthy (heavy) or inferior (lightweight).

This is just the way it is. There are scientific studies all the time regarding annualar ring densities as a result of various treatments. The cell structure across the annular ring for diffuse-porous woods, ie sugar maple, simply does not support the widely held theory. The earlywood and latewood phsyical properties in sugar maple are largely the same, other factors always come into play when discussing the density variation in sugar maple.

Kelly

Thank you for the good read your point is taken

 

[Canadian cue]

Bingo!!!

I have cut wood along the Ohio river valley that makes 4.5oz. shafts & is extremely hard, pingy, & bright white. It varies from 6-8gpi to 30gpi in a single tree, depending on where at in the log it was cut from. The butt log, closest to the ground, will have the widest grain, especially on the south facing side. I can show you two shafts cut from the same tree that weigh exactly the same, share the same harmonics, but are 20gpi different.

I have cut logs that had a large brown heart & small white sap that produced a mix of brown & white shafts. The white are light & the brown very heavy, with the same range of GPI as mentioned above.

Point being, the quality of the wood is dependent on nothing but itself, not the tree it came from or even the region the tree grew. Come spend a few days with me & you'll quickly change your mind about what you think you know. It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo pseudo science that is more myth than reality. Go cut & mill your own trees & you'll learn how it really works.

I don't know if I am ever going to get the chance to cut my own hard maple since we don't grow it here. You are right about first hand experience being the best teacher though. Having said that you can't dismiss traditional thinking either.

 

[Canadian cue]

Wrong, more growth rings does not mean denser. SW sorts shaft blanks by weight... not by growth rings. Final weight also has to do with how and when the wood is dried. Shafts that are quickly vacuum dried for white can be lighter and softer because of cell destruction during drying. Those that vacuum dry wood poorly outnumber those that vacuum dry wood well in my opinion.
As a maker of 6-pie laminated shafts I pick boards for many of the same reasons that others pick squares or dowels. Finding a 5 inch wide board with perfect grain from side to side/end to end with no knots, knot shadows, grain runout and 20+ gpi is just about impossible and the cost per board would be about $100.00. It takes one of these 5" boards to make one laminated shaft. Instead I get to buy boards that cost about $24.00 each, that do have some defects making them non useable, that have 8-10gpi and that I have to angle cut to match the grain. My fall rate is about 25-30% depending on supplier making my cost per board $30-32.00 each. Should I now sell finished laminated shafts for $80.00?
Does a laminated shaft with 20+gpi play better than one with 8? They may look prettier (or not) but as long as the quartered faces are all aligned there is not a difference in playability that I can perceive.

I can say that using Birch as an example wich is also a diffuse-porous wood. If you compare the trees grown in central Alberta to the trees growing near the tree line up in the Arctic there are very big differences in the wood. The lumber harvested from those tree's are considerably harder and denser. The only reasonable conclusion you can draw is that it is due do the shorter growing season. This is why I do not dismiss the theory that there is a correlation between growth rings and density. Having said all that I won't belabour my point. We are all free to believe in what works for us.As I gain more experience turning shafts I will come to more solid conclusions. I appreciate everyone's input into this discussion and I hope no one was offended by any of my remarks.

 

[MVPCues]

Having said that you can't dismiss traditional thinking either.

I certainly understand this. We all look for little edges here and there, and a lot of what we do is gut feel.

Here is one I have never read on here that I have thought about often. Trees are tapered. If you cut an extremely long quartersawn board from a tree, you can perceive which end of the board came from the top of the tree due to wane. Shafts are tapered. If I had a board that i was cutting a blank from, and I could tell which end of the board came from the top of the tree, and IF the grains themselves did not speak to me and ask for a certain end to be the tip end, I would orient the shaft so the tip end came from the higher portion of the tree. It would feel right. It is a feng shui thing. I have talked to one of the most well known USFS wood products scientists about this. He says it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference. I agree with him. But, it can't hurt, I would still do it. :smile:

Kelly

 

[bdcues]

I can say that using Birch as an example wich is also a diffuse-porous wood. If you compare the trees grown in central Alberta to the trees growing near the tree line up in the Arctic there are very big differences in the wood. The lumber harvested from those tree's are considerably harder and denser. The only reasonable conclusion you can draw is that it is due do the shorter growing season. This is why I do not dismiss the theory that there is a correlation between growth rings and density. Having said all that I won't belabour my point. We are all free to believe in what works for us.As I gain more experience turning shafts I will come to more solid conclusions. I appreciate everyone's input into this discussion and I hope no one was offended by any of my remarks.

Comparing trees in central Alberta to trees at the edge of the Arctic may be like comparing apples to oranges. No offense taken and none given I hope also.

Bob Danielson

 

[qbilder]

I don't know if I am ever going to get the chance to cut my own hard maple since we don't grow it here. You are right about first hand experience being the best teacher though. Having said that you can't dismiss traditional thinking either.

By no means would I ever dismiss traditional thinking, or any logical thought for that matter. You are very much correct about that. I do believe that all angles of thought & theory are correct in one way or another, but I have yet to find the one solid truth to encompass everything, though. I have examples of UP Michigan wood that is tight straight grain, heavy, super stable, awesome shafts, and Kentucky wood that is broad grain & light & dull tone. On the flip side, I also have the crap wood from Michigan & awesome wood from Kentucky. All I can do is shake my head & wonder WTF???

That is one of the main purposes for taking a serious approach to logging & milling my own, simply for the personal satisfaction of getting to the bottom of all the different myths. It didn't work out that way, though. All it did was confuse me even more, because I still cannot explain how it all works. For sure, I was able to demystify virtually all of the common beliefs. For instance, a guy in Michigan goes out & logs a hill side of maple, mills it & finds that the wood is superior to logs he milled in Indiana, then he's going to believe & claim that Michigan wood is the best, when in reality it might have only been that particular tract. Thus, a myth is formed & once spread, very hard to dispel. It gets passed around so much that it becomes gospel, and there's actually some logical to support it so it sticks. In certain situations, it's even true. But it's not always true, which means it's tough to rely on.

Another case in point, was two Septembers ago. I cut a few younger maples, understory size, about 15-18" diameter. I got two straight logs from each tree before branches or knots. I quarter sawed them into 5/4 boards, & stuck them away in the barn rafters. No kiln, no vacuum, nothing special at all. A few months ago I brought it all to the desert to complete the drying if needed, but no need as the lumber was sub 6%, wouldn't register on my meter. I cut it up into squares & couldn't help but notice how clean & bright white it was, and the weight. I tested numerous pieces on the fresh cut faces but over & over it tested sub 6%. I took a few squares & rounded them to dowels, and couldn't believe how pristine white the wood was. No BS, it's like holly white. I turn a few down to final taper, 13.15mm like all of my finish shafts are, and to my amazement they weight between 4.2 & 4.6 oz. My friend, Wes Hunter, did the same & with his taper they all weighed over 4.5oz & some nearing 5oz. Dry as popcorn, stable, straight grain, holly white, pings like rosewood, air dried. Myth & even my own personal belief led me to know that white wood comes from vacuum kilns. BS. Not true. This is the whitest maple I have ever seen. It's seriously so uncharacteristic of kiln dried maple that it hardly even looks like maple. GPI ranges from 10-30ish, normal with understory trees, but all else is vastly superior to anything else I have ever seen, and was cut in southern Ohio, not a northern extreme.

Point being, I'm confused & right back at square one with ignorance dominating my mind. Everything I thought I knew has been washed away. Logic doesn't make sense anymore. Commonly known & accepted beliefs are as good as a funny joke to me now. I really do wish it were as easy as I thought it once was, with all the information available & all we had to do was study. But it's not the case. The info comes from the source, which is the loggers & sawyers & dryers and the info they give is their experience. But what is it worth if it changes from person to person, tract of forest to tract of forest? It's crazy. It's making me crazy :banghead: I don't mean to argue with anybody about what they think they know. It's just that I now know it's all myth, only true in it's original context but nothing remotely resembling truth outside of it. Needless to say, I have a lot more to learn. I think we all do. I have a hunch genetics play more of a role than climate or region, just as it does with every other species on earth, but it's something i'll have to study & find out because that info simply doesn't exist in this context.

 

[qbilder]

I certainly understand this. We all look for little edges here and there, and a lot of what we do is gut feel.

Here is one I have never read on here that I have thought about often. Trees are tapered. If you cut an extremely long quartersawn board from a tree, you can perceive which end of the board came from the top of the tree due to wane. Shafts are tapered. If I had a board that i was cutting a blank from, and I could tell which end of the board came from the top of the tree, and IF the grains themselves did not speak to me and ask for a certain end to be the tip end, I would orient the shaft so the tip end came from the higher portion of the tree. It would feel right. It is a feng shui thing. I have talked to one of the most well known USFS wood products scientists about this. He says it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference. I agree with him. But, it can't hurt, I would still do it. :smile:

Kelly

This also determines growth ring count. Butt logs will have wider grains, because on a 100 year old tree, there's 100 growth rings no matter where on the trunk you cut. If it's 1' diameter at the base, then the rings will be spread more than up top where it is only 6" diameter. So a second or third log will have the tight grain where the butt log has wider grain. Absolutely nothing to do with density or region or climate, just the natural shape of the tree, every tree.

As for orientation, I was raised being taught to split firewood from the bottom because it splits easier. I can't say for certain there's any truth to it but it sure seems to be true when i'm swinging that maul. Split the wood the direction it grew, and it'll be a natural flow. That's what I was always told & whether just folk lore or not, I believe it. How it relates to shafts, I don't know.

 

[patrickcues]

So other than weight and tone how do you know it is a good playing shaft?

I keep it simple. I make sure that the growth rings runs straight with the shaft and little to no run off at all. Other that the weight and tone that's what I do. So far so good. Been building cues for 17 years now.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Another case in point, was two Septembers ago. I cut a few younger maples, understory size, about 15-18" diameter. I got two straight logs from each tree before branches or knots. I quarter sawed them into 5/4 boards, & stuck them away in the barn rafters. No kiln, no vacuum, nothing special at all. A few months ago I brought it all to the desert to complete the drying if needed, but no need as the lumber was sub 6%, wouldn't register on my meter. I cut it up into squares & couldn't help but notice how clean & bright white it was, and the weight. I tested numerous pieces on the fresh cut faces but over & over it tested sub 6%. I took a few squares & rounded them to dowels, and couldn't believe how pristine white the wood was. No BS, it's like holly white. I turn a few down to final taper, 13.15mm like all of my finish shafts are, and to my amazement they weight between 4.2 & 4.6 oz. My friend, Wes Hunter, did the same & with his taper they all weighed over 4.5oz & some nearing 5oz. Dry as popcorn, stable, straight grain, holly white, pings like rosewood, air dried. Myth & even my own personal belief led me to know that white wood comes from vacuum kilns. BS. Not true. This is the whitest maple I have ever seen. It's seriously so uncharacteristic of kiln dried maple that it hardly even looks like maple. GPI ranges from 10-30ish, normal with understory trees, but all else is vastly superior to anything else I have ever seen, and was cut in southern Ohio, not a northern extreme.

qbilder

I enjoy reading your posts very much. You obviously have a lot of insight about wood that comes from your own personal experience. And I find it very refreshing that it goes against the common wisdom in many cases.

I'm not a cue maker, but here is my experience. I while back I bought 2 cheap Chinese import sneaky petes, same cue model, same taper. One had tight growth rings, had darker color wood, and was heavier 4.2 oz. The other was whiter, lighter 3.7 oz. and much less growth rings. Screwing the 2 cues together and giving the rap test, the lighter, whiter cue gave a higher toned vibration, which to me is a pretty good initial indication of what you are in store for (I guess some people disagree with this). But it was proven to be correct in this case. The darker heavier shaft played like a wet noodle. The lighter whiter shaft plays with a nice crisp resonance when I strike the ball.

edit: the lighter whiter shaft has remained very straight as well, the other shaft having moved a little.

I have a question for you, but it is off topic and I don't want to derail this thread. Would you please refer to the following thread...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3546367#post3546367

thanks
Fatz

 

[qbilder]

That's not really uncommon. Just because it's brown & heavy doesn't mean it's good. Just because it's white & light doesn't mean it's bad. My whole point in this thread is that I haven't found a rock solid visual indication to choose shafts. I have to choose them by tone, like you did by bouncing it against your hand. A lot of times, the bright white shafts are soft & dull tone, which is why lots of folks nowadays are steering away from them when possible. Carmel color shafts mean either the wood is heartwood, or else it was stained. If it's heartwood, then it'll be heavier & harder than white sapwood, and I personally have never seen heartwood maple that didn't have great tone. Unfortunately, it's not commonly cut & available. The good white sapwood is the most sought after, so it's what's searched out & cut for. Find a pallet mill & you'll find all kinds of brown heartwood maple. But finding grade maple lumber that's cut from the heart is a pointless task.

 

[bapage]

color

Does air drying maple shafts for a long period of time not turn them a darker color? I bought some of the shaft blanks from tommy that were from the 1980's a year or so ago, and all of them are the color of honey. I also enjoy your post qbilder, and love the look of all of your cues that i have seen. build on man! :thumbup:

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

I enjoy reading Eric's posts also concerning wood and his experience concerning milling and processing is a great reference for us CMs.

What is very refreshing is that even with all of his knowledge and experience he is honest enough to scratch his head concerning this subject. Something that I learned many years ago is that experts are never afraid to say, "It beats me, I don't know". Eric Quote : "Point being, I'm confused & right back at square one with ignorance dominating my mind. Everything I thought I knew has been washed away". When he says that, I really realize how much less I thought I knew.

Snow white shafts being killer and darker shafts being losers are aberrations to a norm but it is a complex and random thing this shaft business.

There is one thing I can say for sure about culling your herd of tapered dowels that are seasoning that you are taking cuts over time on: If you have a bump that occurs on an initial tapered shaft, and cut it out and put a ? mark on it. If it comes back one more time. Shit can it and you will be better off.

You can BS yourself thinking it will be OK. There is a possibility it can be OK down the road but the risk reward does not justify keeping it. In the past year I did this twice with a ? mark shaft and had to make new replacement ones for a 2 customer's cues. Both shafts looked so good and had straight clear grain on them and I fell in love with them and kept giving them the benefit of the doubt as they were cut more. That's like enabling an alcoholic, Bad idea!:speechless:

Rick G

 

[qbilder]

I had always been told & taught that air drying would turn the wood yellow, stain it. It's a common belief. But I know a sawyer in MI that air dries maple & it's white & clean like vacuum dried wood. I was always puzzled by this & thought there must be something i'm missing, until I experienced it myself.

What I found in my own experience, and then was reassured by a prominent consultant in the lumber industry, was that getting the log milled immediately after cutting the tree, then begin drying immediately after milling, will result in the wood holding it's true color. If the logs sit for a while, the wood will darken, beginning with blonde & eventually becoming caramel if let alone long enough.

This is a different brown than heart wood. Heart wood is brown already. Like with any wood, the heartwood of maple is darker, harder, stronger, etc. than sap. Unlike other woods, maple often has a tiny heart & large sap with attractive creamy white wood, and that is what is most commonly marketed. Every other tree I can think of, the smaller the sap the better, because the log will yield mostly heart wood. With maple, sawyers are happy when they see maple with all sap & almost no heart.