A Plea to Mike Howerton...

[justadub]

Why move the aiming threads? Why not address the real problem, those that are there only to disrupt and offer nothing of value? They are the problem, not the topic. If those that don't want to read them stay out of them, no problem.

Why, Neil? The answer is that you are right, the best answer would be to insure that the poor behavior was contained, and minimized.

Unfortunately, that isn't the easiest thing to do. Moving the aiming threads to their own sub-forum will at least segregate those who refuse to act appropriately.

As much as I don't like the idea, it has become the right thing to do, for the overall sake of the forum.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Seriously, if there is one GOOD reason for having an aiming room, it's for consolidating a recurring topic. It seems the moment CTE moves to page 2 in the main forum, there's someone creating a new thread about it. This way, the people that come here for the purpose of learning about aiming methods can find what they're looking for more easily. I think it benefits THEM more than US.

 

[Neil]

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[sfleinen]

Sticking a problem in the corner fixes nothing. You still have the same problem, it's just not as visible. Easier to fix the problem, get rid of the troublemakers, and then there is peace in the land again. There's lot's of threads on here I don't care about. But I don't go asking the owner to remove them because they get in the way of what I want to read. I just skip over them.

Neil:

While your point of being able to skip over threads that don't interest you is valid, I think you're using this as a hammer to try to smash the lightning rod nature of the aiming threads. It's not a matter of "interest" as it is a matter of creating a focus group to minimize the trouble. You are trying to conceal the lightning rod nature of the aiming topic under the guise of normal thread-perusal filtering.

With a few exceptions, some of the trouble-makers are actually decent posters otherwise; for some reason, the aiming threads being in their face -- not because of genuine interest in the topic, but because of historical nature of this topic, or perhaps a problem with how the information is presented -- "become" trouble-makers for whatever reason.

Trying to break the catch-22 by the "whack-a-mole" ban-hammer method (while keeping the lightning rod topic in general circulation) has proven to be a fruitless exercise, no matter the altruistic notion you may have. Moving the lightning rod topic to its own area, and *then* whacking-those-moles, will truly address the problem.

The forum will be a more peaceful place because of it. I don't normally agree with "pulling topics out of general circulation," but in this instance, I do, because it's time-tested and proven to be a lightning rod topic.

-Sean

 

[tenzip]

If you look at the actual threads on aiming, most are started by those against using aiming methods. Simple cure, Mike- ban PJ from posting about CTE, ban PoolSharkAllen from posting about John Barton unless he has at least 5 posts about something else inbetween posting about John. Toughie here- find all of pocketpoints user names and ban them all. I realize that might knock out 1/3 of your actual memberships, but it would be worth it. Ban The Thaiger from posting a neg. post without at least 5 pos. posts in between the neg ones. Do just that, and almost all your problems are gone with aiming threads and other threads.

To quote myself:

Yes, really.

I'm a newb to these forums. I got fascinated reading the recent "Fractional aiming systems" (or something close to that) thread. Kind of the same way you're fascinated watching an automobile accident happen in real time right in front of you.

Regardless of what may have happened in the past, or who "started it", from my snapshot view of these boards, both sides, whatever you may want to call them, are exactly as fractious as the other. I saw a bunch of flamethrowing in that thread, and haven't followed an aiming thread since, once I determined that thread was an aiming thread.

I don't see that having a separate sub-forum for aiming related threads impedes your (or anyone's) ability to teach whatever you wish to teach.

It kind of reminds me of the sterotypical kids in the backseat, with one holding his finger millimeters from the other, saying "I'm not touching you".

I wish it were in a sub forum, as it irks me to see them continually jump to the top of the page, knowing it's just a pissing contest in action.

And it irks me to see new ones pop up continually.

If I were a complete newb, and didn't know how forums work, I'd probably go running for the exit, never to return.

 

[sfleinen]

If you look at the actual threads on aiming, most are started by those against using aiming methods. Simple cure, Mike- ban PJ from posting about CTE, ban PoolSharkAllen from posting about John Barton unless he has at least 5 posts about something else inbetween posting about John. Toughie here- find all of pocketpoints user names and ban them all. I realize that might knock out 1/3 of your actual memberships, but it would be worth it. Ban The Thaiger from posting a neg. post without at least 5 pos. posts in between the neg ones. Do just that, and almost all your problems are gone with aiming threads and other threads.

Neil:

This is "pie in the sky" altruistic thinking, without any pragmatic or practical application or value. So now you're putting it on the *mods* to have to read every thread, every post, and make a decision? Now you're expecting them to "keep count" of certain types of posts and behaviors, per user? You do realize what you're advocating, right? Not only a 100% moderated forum, but one in which every post is scrutinized as well.

I don't know if you've ever moderated a forum before, but what you're asking for is nearly impossible. I've moderated forums before (including Usenet newsgroups -- e.g. alt.sys.intergraph and comp.sys.intergraph -- a previous employer), so I know what goes into this job.

Your altruistic notions are admirable, and if they were pragmatic, would CERTAINLY solve the problem. The pragmatic part is where they fall down. They are just unimplementable.

-Sean

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

find all of pocketpoints user names and ban them all. I realize that might knock out 1/3 of your actual memberships.

Hahahaha, no kidding eh. I have suspected for a long time that Pocket Points Mom and Dad are also members here.

 

[Neil]

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[barking]

what is cte?

what is cte? can it help me? who is pj? can he help me? can i be helped? i cant help it, im helpless. help

 

[tucson9ball]

Sticking a problem in the corner fixes nothing. You still have the same problem, it's just not as visible. Easier to fix the problem, get rid of the troublemakers, and then there is peace in the land again. There's lot's of threads on here I don't care about. But I don't go asking the owner to remove them because they get in the way of what I want to read. I just skip over them.

Neil,

I wouldn't think having it's own sub-forum would be putting it in a corner. Seems it would be more front and center. It would be much easier to find a particular aiming system if they were all grouped together instead of randomly throughout the main forum.

I thought the people who wrote of aiming threads would be thrilled to have their own space?

 

[sfleinen]

You are making it sound a lot harder than it would actually be to do what I suggested. Mods would not have to read every thread on here. But, I said my piece on the subject, so, what will be will be.

No, I disagree. Again, you're making this "sound simple" (and admittedly, the *idea* sounds simple), but pragmatically, it's not. I know from experience.

-Sean

 

[Fast Lenny]

I like the idea of a sub-forum for the aiming stuff and I am all for aiming systems but think the horse has been beaten bloody. I also think there should be some Sticky removal too, its a bit much. :smile:

 

[sfleinen]

what is cte? can it help me? who is pj? can he help me? can i be helped? i cant help it, im helpless. help

Exhibit A of what I was talking about. This kind of trolling (even playfully, as I think it's meant to be) is the kind of stuff that has traditionally plagued this lightning rod of a topic.

Having a dedicated subforum addresses all of this. A legitimate plea for help goes into a targeted area, gets a targeted audience, and gets targeted help. And help that can later be referred to by other viewers genuinely interested in that lightning rod topic.

-Sean

 

[gunzby]

+1
I find aiming systems interesting, but the threads about them to be loathsome. The bickering and one upping associated with them keeps me from even bothering with them anymore.

 

[sfleinen]

Neil,

I wouldn't think having it's own sub-forum would be putting it in a corner. Seems it would be more front and center. It would be much easier to find a particular aiming system if they were all grouped together instead of randomly throughout the main forum.

I thought the people who wrote of aiming threads would be thrilled to have their own space?

I know why Neil (and others) may not like this idea, because of the, well, I'm going to catch crap for this metaphor, "red-headed stepchild" nature of it. Pulling aiming threads out of the Main forum and pushing them into a subforum wreaks of "red-headed stepchild" and obviously folks would not like their information -- their pride and joy in many cases -- treated in that way.

But I think the initial pain of this will subside, and the true all-around long term good that will come of this will make it a distant memory.

-Sean

 

[Celtic]

Make it a instructional forum section, get rid of the stroking threads, the stance threads, the "does a ball transfer spin???" threads AND the aiming threads and put them all into a instructional forum section. That would be freaking sweet.

I am more than happy to set up the area, it will just require a little time to move all of the existing threads into that area.

Mike

This is the biggest upgrade this forum will see since the change to VBulletin. This has honest to god made my day.

 

[Neil]

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[Neil]

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[tucson9ball]

Make it a instructional forum section, get rid of the stroking threads, the stance threads, the "does a ball transfer spin???" threads AND the aiming threads and put them all into a instructional forum section. That would be freaking sweet.



This is the biggest upgrade this forum will see since the change to VBulletin. This has honest to god made my day.

There is already a "ask the instructor" forum. I would think the aiming threads would go there for any answers, but they seem to be in the main forum all the time. Having their own forum would be pretty nice, I would think?

 

[Celtic]

Sticking a problem in the corner fixes nothing. You still have the same problem, it's just not as visible. Easier to fix the problem, get rid of the troublemakers, and then there is peace in the land again.

I am afraid that execution is a little too extreme Neil, so instead the aiming threads are going to JAIL!!! You can visit them any time you wish to, the rare masachist that wants to read them and try to get some information of value out of them can have at it, but for most of us we will be happy to stick to the main forum and have those threads for all intents and puroposes cease to exist.