How Do We Aim?

[Patrick Johnson]

How do we aim at the most fundamental level?

I think that no matter what method or system an individual uses, our brains work pretty much the same way for all of us when it comes to aiming: it's all memorization and "picture matching". We build "picture libraries" of successful shots and try to find the closest match in the library for the shot we're trying now.

Finding the matching "shot picture" in our picture libraries for the current shot we're trying to aim is done by our subconscious "librarian". We're not consciously aware of this process - we don't see each library shot picture as its compared with the real shot at hand. If we did it consciously each shot would take hours to decide and shoot - but our subconscious can do it in a flash. Because we're not consciously aware of the aiming process, it can seem as if we're groping in the dark for the answer - I think this is what we call "aiming by feel", and I think it's done by everybody on every shot.

So what about the different aiming methods and systems used by individual players? I think these are "facilitators" for the "by feel" aiming we all do. We use different aiming methods and systems as "Dewey decimal systems" for our picture libraries, helping us file and catalogue "shot pictures" as we experience them and then helping us quickly and accurately find the right match when needed for each new shot.

It's a good thing we have the subconscious to do this - if we tried to do it "manually" (consciously) we'd become quickly overwhelmed and bogged down by the mountain of data to process. But we can consciously help our subconscious "computer" with the memorizing-matching task by adopting habits of consciously categorizing the shots we see at the table. This could be as simple as "thick" vs. "thin" or it could include as much more detail as the conscious mind can handle in the heat of battle (for example, comparing cut angles with "system alignments"). This is how I think "aiming systems" and "aiming by feel" are really parts of the same thing.

pj
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[mohrt]

Otherwise known as shot recall. This is why it's important to walk around the table, you give your mind all the information you can about the given shot. Systems help minimize the conscious adjustments, what many of us define as "feel". Different systems have varying success rates for different people, because we all see things differently. :thumbup:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Systems help minimize the conscious adjustments, what many of us define as "feel".

I think these "conscious" adjustments are actually subconscious adjustments that we consciously "request" or "activate". Our conscious mind throws the switch, but our subconscious mind does the work.

pj
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[stan shuffett]

How you should really aim.

Through visual objectivity shot after shot all day long, every day coupled with a correct physical movement to the cb with center cue ball being the precise shot line reference.
Stan Shuffett

 

[Patrick Johnson]

How you should really aim.

Through visual objectivity shot after shot all day long, every day coupled with a correct physical movement to the cb with center cue ball being the precise shot line reference.
Stan Shuffett

Whatever that means...

Stan, we don't really need your advertisements in this thread.

pj
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[stan shuffett]

No, not an ad. I am sure that's how you view it, PJ.

I teach how to REALLY aim.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Patrick Johnson]

No, not an ad. I am sure that's how you view it, PJ.

I teach how to REALLY aim.

Stan Shuffett

I "view" this as advertising because you're promoting what you sell, Stan. That's advertising.

If you want to join the conversation about what aiming is, please do. We already know how highly you think of your own for-sale system.

pj
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[champ2107]

nice bail out PJ :thumbup: you always looking for a way out!

 

[cookie man]

I "view" this as advertising because you're promoting what you sell, Stan. That's advertising.

If you want to join the conversation about what aiming is, please do. We already know how highly you think of your own for-sale system.

pj
chgo

Garbage post PJ. If anything your in the aiming forum for self-promotion.

 

[stan shuffett]

Pj, Just because I sell something does not mean I can't be correct in what I know to be true about how to REALLY aim. I am just sharing as prompted by your post.
Stan Shuffett

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Pj, Just because I sell something does not mean I can't be correct in what I know to be true about how to REALLY aim. I am just sharing as prompted by your post.
Stan Shuffett

Maybe it's just another misunderstanding, Stan. This thread is about how our subconscious contributes to our aiming, no matter what method we use. All you're saying is "my method is the best", which is off the point (and sounds like advertising, since you sell it).

pj
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[JC]

Until one of the ever stubborn CTE folks breaks down and admits that this and all aiming systems do in fact require feel and estimation at some level this will continue to be a circular discussion. PJ, I think you need to cut one of them from the herd for individual interogation. Like African cape buffalos, you have no chance for a kill while they're tightly banded up.

JC

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Until one of the ever stubborn CTE folks breaks down and admits that this and all aiming systems do in fact require feel and estimation at some level this will continue to be a circular discussion.

I know it can seem repetitive, but I think the discussion is more of an upward spiral than a circle. Each time we cover the same ground (hopefully in different ways) we make a little more headway with the stuck-in-their-ways guys and also help readers who are newer to the topic.

pj
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[JolietJames]

This horse has been beaten beyond all recognition. I'm not sure why there is a section on here about aiming anymore. For crying out loud, systems ARE crutches for those who can't see in three dimensions or lack basic geometry skills for some crazy reason. Hey, whatever gets people interested in pool and perhaps playing better is a good thing I suppose. Most people can visualize intersecting lines and therefore do not need a system to play better pool but rather live insturcion. Nothing will ever replace working with a true pro.
There will always be great players who claim to use systems and great players who claim they don't. It is sad that some people with a reasonable grasp of geometry and decent eye sight spend hard earned money on systems. But that is what makes the world go round. A fool and his money are soon parted they say. At least pool doesn't have all the crazy gimmicks and gizmos golf has. Although I'm sure there are people thinking more up right now -and they will be in the aiming section soon enough.

just my .02 since the word aim should be banned from this forum.

BTW I cannot believe you are THIS interested in aiming to create yet another thread about it.
I think rather you are trying to bait the CTE guys into another arguement.
I personally feel cte is silly and had a cte user show me how it works just out of morbid curiosity.
I am an anti-"purchasing an aiming system" guy but I'm also a pro "lets stop having the same arguement over and over" guy.

If your threads save some people money then keep posting I suppose but damn...

Sorry to clog the thread gents I guess I had to vent.

 

[champ2107]

lol and now you know why aiming got its own category :thumbup: can you believe this guy? lol

 

[mohrt]

Until one of the ever stubborn CTE folks breaks down and admits that this and all aiming systems do in fact require feel and estimation at some level this will continue to be a circular discussion. PJ, I think you need to cut one of them from the herd for individual interogation. Like African cape buffalos, you have no chance for a kill while they're tightly banded up.

JC

I think most of the arguments are largely due to misconceptions. When someone says a blanket statement like "CTE requires feel and estimation", that leads one to think that when executing CTE there is a bunch of "guessing" going on, or conscious acts of adjustment. That is absolutely false. Any "feel" in the system is reduced to something subconscious. It is actually a very systematic approach to the conscious mind. Line up, slide in, pivot, shoot. Over and over. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. The technicalities of "feel" going on is a red herring, its nothing you need to worry yourself about to use it. I know there is an academic side to all of this, we just want to know more. That is great and I hope we all reach a higher understanding, its good for the game.

Other systems like ghost ball can get you to the same place, except (I my own experience) CTE is a more effective/efficient system. Ghost-ball is a highly brute-force system, it takes millions of shots to fine-tune, and a constant practice to maintain it. With CTE you can reach the same level of play faster, say thousands of shots instead of millions. I believe that is the real difference: CTE eliminates a lot of the guess-work that is ever-present in a system like ghost-ball. Eliminating guesswork will reduce the errors in execution, simple as that.

The human body is hardly infallible, we can only do what we are capable of, and fine tune that through practice. Any aiming system is going to require practice to get proficient, and you can get proficient with ANY of them, given enough time and practice.

So the argument shouldn't be "Does CTE require feel?", I think the real question here is "Does CTE require less feel than other traditional aiming methods?" and through my own experiences, this is a resounding YES. Is this the same result for everyone? I doubt it, and largely because most players don't get past one session at the table with it. It's just too different to pass that first hurdle.

[edit] sorry a bit off topic for this thread.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I cannot believe you are THIS interested in aiming to create yet another thread about it.

I think aiming is a slippery, difficult and interesting topic that few understand very well.

I think rather you are trying to bait the CTE guys into another arguement.

CTE guys seem to think aiming means CTE and Aiming Conversation means talking about CTE. If it's too hard for you to ignore this little backwater subforum and the "arguments" bother you, complain to them.

pj
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[KarenTang]

This horse has been beaten beyond all recognition. I'm not sure why there is a section on here about aiming anymore. For crying out loud, systems ARE crutches for those who can't see in three dimensions or lack basic geometry skills for some crazy reason. Hey, whatever gets people interested in pool and perhaps playing better is a good thing I suppose. Most people can visualize intersecting lines and therefore do not need a system to play better pool but rather live insturcion. Nothing will ever replace working with a true pro.

I'm one of those people that cannot see three dimensional. Having picked up a cue for first time last year, pool is not a feel and do type of thing. I work really hard to learn. I cannot see the ghost ball when I am down on the table. But I can see it in my head when I'm not playing pool but thinking about pool. And I'm hoping to gleen some answers on this section.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I think the real question here is "Does CTE require less feel than other traditional aiming methods?"

I think that may be "the" question for a thread about CTE, but not for this thread about aiming in general. Your favorite system is not all there is in the aiming world, or even in this Aiming Conversation forum. The fact that some CTE users seem to think so simply reflects their limited view of reality.

pj
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[Patrick Johnson]

I cannot see the ghost ball when I am down on the table.

You don't necessarily need to "see the ghost ball". You can try "seeing" the actual cue ball extended on the end of your stick and contacting the object ball in the correct position to make the shot. This is not exactly the same as seeing a ghost ball, but similar. It has the advantage of including a view of exactly where your stick is pointed.

Or you can try to "see" the contact point on the object ball (that the cue ball must contact in order to make the shot) and try to simply aim the corresponding contact point on the CB to hit it. This also sounds similar to visualizing the ghost ball, but it's not quite the same. It has the advantage of using the direct aiming target: the point on the OB that you're trying to hit with the CB.

These are the simplest, most direct ways to aim, but they require some ability to visualize 3D shapes in space, which not everybody does so easily (although practice helps). "Systems" are less direct and more complicated, but you may have to use one if neither of these more direct methods work for you. And CTE is not the only system by a long shot, even though you might get that impression from a few of its users here.

pj
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