league sandbaggers vs hustlers

[Banks]

I'm saying this particular 4, is probably closer to a 6. I get it, sandbagging happens, as does hustling, i just dont see the difference asides from big time names and players/pros predator cheats who are glorified here.


i guess some people put the mob on a pedestal too. I really loved this weeks episode of mob wives, where the feds took donnie brascos granddaughters jewelry, and she cried like a little Bi@tch. or the other one pouted that they arrested her man right before thansgiving and the didnt let the family enjoy the holidays. you reap what you sow.

You can take it any way you want it. Do you complain to your boss that you make more than somebody that works harder or produces more? Mob wives is flat out stupid, imho. Are all salesmen cheats, since they're not offering the lowest possible price to everybody?

Chances are he's a 4.

 

[Goose1972]

I have been making this point for some time now. Misrepresenting your speed is the tool of both the sandbagger and the hustler. It is done to gain unfair advantage. There is no honor in playing a game in that manner. But as Al Davis used to say "just win, baby", right?

It is an argument that i will never win here on AZB. "The hustle" is glorified in pool culture, and if you aren't getting over on someone, you simply ain't a real pool player. Which is also the primary reason pool will never be accepted in the mainstream, due to its seedy nature.

Which we continue to glorify. It's our own fault.

im with you dub. the movement grows, no more glorification, these predators deserve to be beaten, and im not talking on a table, it's all part of the game right!!

 

[jojopiff]

I'm saying this particular 4, is probably closer to a 6. I get it, sandbagging happens, as does hustling, i just dont see the difference asides from big time names and players/pros predator cheats who are glorified here.


i guess some people put the mob on a pedestal too. I really loved this weeks episode of mob wives, where the feds took donnie brascos granddaughters jewelry, and she cried like a little Bi@tch. or the other one pouted that they arrested her man right before thansgiving and the didnt let the family enjoy the holidays. you reap what you sow.

The difference to me is if my captian puts me up against a SL4 who is actually an SL6 I have no choice but to play the guy in league. I'm forced into playing a liar and cheater. Conversely, if I'm playing Joe Worldbeater for money I'm able to choose to play one set or 10 sets for $10 or $1000 and am under no obligation to play him.

 

[Goose1972]

You can take it any way you want it. Do you complain to your boss that you make more than somebody that works harder or produces more? Mob wives is flat out stupid, imho. Are all salesmen cheats, since they're not offering the lowest possible price to everybody?

Chances are he's a 4.

No, don't complain to my boss, if i feel thats the case I quit and find a new job. Which I have done.

Mob wives, have you seen it?

Salesman cheats, yes pretty much same snake scum shit as your 2 bit hustler should also be exterminated.

"Chances are he's a 4" Based on your other answers, and the fact that you weren't there, I think you should keep your silly opinions to yourself.

 

[macguy]

I have been making this point for some time now. Misrepresenting your speed is the tool of both the sandbagger and the hustler. It is done to gain unfair advantage. There is no honor in playing a game in that manner. But as Al Davis used to say "just win, baby", right?

It is an argument that i will never win here on AZB. "The hustle" is glorified in pool culture, and if you aren't getting over on someone, you simply ain't a real pool player. Which is also the primary reason pool will never be accepted in the mainstream, due to its seedy nature.

Which we continue to glorify. It's our own fault.

I don't think hustlers are glorified, but quite the opposite. The ones are glorified the ones who get up and play. The matches where people sit around for days at a time and watch two gunfighters shoot it out. These are not guys going into a bar and playing like they are drunk trying to win 20 bucks from some poor drunk. The two are not even the same species. That is not to say there are not great stories about big hustles but they usually involve real players, not some drunk.

Even when a guy comes to town looking for action who gets double steered is not some innocent party. He came to town to make some money. Maybe easy money, thought he was talking to a local pool detective,
(A local who for some reason who gives information about players, even friends, for no other reason then to show how smart they are),
and got out moved.

 

[rayjay]

Anybody can cheat, or hustle, anybody that trusts them once. If it happens twice or more, you probably deserved it.

 

[Goose1972]

The difference to me is if my captian puts me up against a SL4 who is actually an SL6 I have no choice but to play the guy in league. I'm forced into playing a liar and cheater. Conversely, if I'm playing Joe Worldbeater for money I'm able to choose to play one set or 10 sets for $10 or $1000 and am under no obligation to play him.

you can tell your captain your not gonna paly him. or wont play him next time. and regardless of how any sets you played joe worldbeater, joe worldbeater in your story is the hero. which is my point. it's not about what you do, this thread is about the image of both of type players.

 

[macguy]

No, don't complain to my boss, if i feel thats the case I quit and find a new job. Which I have done.

Mob wives, have you seen it?

Salesman cheats, yes pretty much same snake scum shit as your 2 bit hustler should also be exterminated.

"Chances are he's a 4" Based on your other answers, and the fact that you weren't there, I think you should keep your silly opinions to yourself.

Can I take it you never gamble? Or if you do and discover you are the better player and your opponent doesn't realize it, you bring it to their attention, quit and give them back their money?

 

[Goose1972]

I don't think hustlers are glorified, but quite the opposite. The ones are glorified the ones who get up and play. The matches where people sit around for days at a time and watch two gunfighters shoot it out. These are not guys going into a bar and playing like they are drunk trying to win 20 bucks from some poor drunk. The two are not even the same species. That is not to say there are not great stories about big hustles but they usually involve real players, not some drunk.

Even when a guy comes to town looking for action who gets double steered is not some innocent party. He came to town to make some money. Maybe easy money, thought he was talking to a local pool detective,
(A local who for some reason who gives information about players, even friends, for no other reason then to show how smart they are),
and got out moved.

my comment of "glorified" came about because thats what i felt from reading the recent thread "What is the best story you have about playing a champiom, pro or monster player?" Just seemed like a good portion of these stories were (I got hustled by my hero. Only I didn't realize he was my hero till they told me.)

 

[justadub]

I don't think hustlers are glorified, but quite the opposite. The ones are glorified the ones who get up and play. The matches where people sit around for days at a time and watch two gunfighters shoot it out. These are not guys going into a bar and playing like they are drunk trying to win 20 bucks from some poor drunk. The two are not even the same species. That is not to say there are not great stories about big hustles but they usually involve real players, not some drunk.

Bullspit.

To say the hustle isn't glorified here is preposterous. Story after story, we hear about so and so busting someone. Every day, in many threads. Big shots, and little pistols.

I don't expect people here to agree with my opinion about hustling being bad for pools image. I do find it hilarious to not believe the hustle isn't glorified.

 

[Spider1]

I don't want to disillusion you but the old saying "You can't cheat an honest man" when it comes to pool hustling is true. The whole essence of a hustle is to convince the sucker he is in fact the one who is stealing. If he was honest he would say, "I am sorry I think I am too good for you and we should not be gambling". Don't count on the sucker saying that, they will instead want to raise the bet.

As far as sandbaggers, that is a completely different discussion and also requires collusion on the part of his team mates. The whole team and not just the sandbagger are open to criticism.

No, because the other team are innocent parties. They are not doing anything but playing in what is supposed to be an honest game. It is not a hustle but dishonestly where honesty is expected. When you match up with a player in the pool room to gamble there are not such expectations, in fact you should expect to be on your guard when gambling.

One thing with a pool league and sandbagging, you have to have evidence that is what happened. Not all players are fanatics and if they don't practice on a regular basis their games can vary greatly. Many may not play other then league night and have good nights and bad nights. It takes more information then one night to prove sandbagging, it could be a player just having a good night.

Two excellent posts, wish I could green rep both of them.



As Macguy said, nobody gets "hustled" without them first trying to "hustle" someone else. They took the game thinking it was easy money and they were taking advantage of a lesser player, then want to cry about being "hustled" when it turns out they were wrong.

Not the same in a league match, where the players are all expecting a fairly handicapped match.

Gaming the handicapping system in a league is just straight up cheating. Thinking you are going to win some easy money from a sucker who suddenly shoots lights out is not cheating. It's you getting some karma back on you.

 

[jojopiff]

you can tell your captain your not gonna paly him. or wont play him next time. and regardless of how any sets you played joe worldbeater, joe worldbeater in your story is the hero. which is my point. it's not about what you do, this thread is about the image of both of type players.

I'm responding to the thread in the context of why do Hustlers get a pass and are not villianized. My point is the reason I've got no issues with them is cause I'm under no obligation to play them ever. Whereas in league someone on "our" team is going to have to play a liar and that affects me cause it's my team. I see your point and as I play seldom on a handicapped league I'm likely out of touch with playing a sandbagger.

As a whole for the sport of pool I would say there is no difference between sandbaggers and hustlers. Just that it doesn't directly effect me hence it doesn't bother me.

 

[Goose1972]

Can I take it you never gamble? Or if you do and discover you are the better player and your opponent doesn't realize it, you bring it to their attention, quit and give them back their money?

gambling in a casino? yes

gambling in pool , maybe a drink with a stranger in a bar, or 20-50 bucks with a friend I know.

in cards we play to win the most chips.

in pool game is played to win the most games. watch a pro tournament. these guys aren't intentionally losing. only the degenerate hustling gambler thieves do this.

 

[Jaday]

I wish I had a chance to play more APA sandbaggers. Everyone keeps saying that the league is full of them, but I haven't run into anyone that is successfully keeping their skill level more than one level below what I gauge as their potential. Are teams not scoring right? are both scorekeepers doing shots at the bar instead of marking innings? Is he a new player that is still establishing his skill level?

Are there 7's that play as 3's for years? I really want to know, because it takes a lot of dedication to maintain a much lower skill level and I can't imagine that I would enjoy purposely shooting poorly just to game a system with relatively tiny payouts.

 

[macguy]

Bullspit.

To say the hustle isn't glorified here is preposterous. Story after story, we hear about so and so busting someone. Every day, in many threads. Big shots, and little pistols.

I don't expect people here to agree with my opinion about hustling being bad for pools image. I do find it hilarious to not believe the hustle isn't glorified.

There is a world that exists beyond this forum and has for many many years before the internet existed. The low life hustler who steals from drunks, kids and non players has never been one of respect and certainly not glorified. The silly small time stories guys like to tell on here of, "A guy went into a bar etc. etc. etc.", are pretty much just people wanting to participate in the conversation on the forum. I would not read much into it.

 

[Goose1972]

Just to point something out here... gee thanks

I've seen a lot of your posts where you get defensive if someone comes on to your topics and posts something that isn't exactly what you want to hear. Thats just not true

I'm thinking others will start to see it. I think you might be right

You should step over to the topic that Fenwick started a couple of days ago about loud talking in a match. I posted something satirical which was meant to be funny(and was, judging by the feedback). I remember this. Really wasn't that funny. Fenwick was the first person to green rep me for the reply. If you're really good i will green rep you nest time, then you can take your green reps to the green rep fairy and cash them in for a life He then thanked everybody regardless of the fact that many of the opinions did not align with his.
That is classy.
Fenwick was delusional and wrong, the good people here, myself included set him straight. He had no choice. I on the otherhand am correct.


You, on the other hand, insult people, get defensive and lash out. That would seem pretty immature for someone approaching their 20th birthday. It is downright pitiful for someone twice that age. Read the thread I insulted no one.You came on this thread like a cowboy shooting off that perty little mouth of yours, about how you dislike me.


Oooo, gotta go, the bailiff just ordered everybody to rise, which means Mr. Reinhold is coming. shucks

dld

DD, as you stated before, you already didn't like me, so suggestion, you stay off my threads and posts and will do just fine. Unless you really do like me, or you can just keep that perty little mouth of your closed

Good day

 

[Goose1972]

I wish I had a chance to play more APA sandbaggers. Everyone keeps saying that the league is full of them, but I haven't run into anyone that is successfully keeping their skill level more than one level below what I gauge as their potential. Are teams not scoring right? are both scorekeepers doing shots at the bar instead of marking innings? Is he a new player that is still establishing his skill level?

Are there 7's that play as 3's for years? I really want to know, because it takes a lot of dedication to maintain a much lower skill level and I can't imagine that I would enjoy purposely shooting poorly just to game a system with relatively tiny payouts.

I'm talking guys who play our girl threes and play 10 innings, banging balls and missing their shots until they miraculously come from behind in the last inning with an amzingly lucky yet finessed runout of 3 - 4 balls. not saying they're 7's, more like solid 5's but they're playing true 3's and 4's. when they do play 6's and 7's you don't see them banging. We had one guy who plays like a maniac the whole season, in the playoffs he was all finese, it was like jeckyl and hyde. We had captains meeting a while back with our LO because there was so much complaining, but when all the captains got together to go over everyplayer everyone froze up from what I heard, as to not offend each other. Few players were named behind doors and the team that was the biggest issue has since dismantled, after LO moved a few up including a girl 2 who they made a 4or5 in the playoffs that year. I play in a big city, and beleive me, those no shortage of them as teams are trying to play within the 23 point rule.



My post wasn't meant to be about sandbagging though, it's about the nature of the deceitfulness of the sandbagger and hustler, and my inability to understand how these lowlifes are viewed differently. and my opinion has not changed.

 

[Goose1972]

There is a world that exists beyond this forum and has for many many years before the internet existed. The low life hustler who steals from drunks, kids and non players has never been one of respect and certainly not glorified. The silly small time stories guys like to tell on here of, "A guy went into a bar etc. etc. etc.", are pretty much just people wanting to participate in the conversation on the forum. I would not read much into it.

this thread was meant to be about this forum and the way sandbaggers and hustlers are viewed on this forum from my experience.

 

[Banks]

"Chances are he's a 4" Based on your other answers, and the fact that you weren't there, I think you should keep your silly opinions to yourself.

My silly opinions? Yeah, I guess nearly 7 1/2 years of APA, half of them running teams, going to Vegas for singles 3 times(twice for myself) and moving up through the ranks through hard work makes my opinions silly. I'm glad that you're here to explain things to me. People that cry about handicaps are a dime a dozen. One of my friends playing down the block from where I was at came over to tell me about a player he was watching that had better cue ball control, better shot-making skill and better defensive moves than myself(a low/mid 7/9).. so I asked what his name was. He was a 5/6 that I'd have to give up a decent spot to, if they'd even care to gamble with me - I've played them plenty of times. If you beat a sandbagging 6 that played as a 4, that means you must be a sandbagger, too. :thumbup:

I've seen a 3 break and run. He's also dogged balls in front of the pocket. That doesn't mean that he's a 5 or 6. I'd be more than happy to lay heavy odds on him not doing it again. I don't know how many players that should run out a rack haven't been able to when needed, that's just how things work and sometimes they work in their favor instead of against. It still doesn't mean that the rating is off.

 

[DaveK]

.... i am in the apa, I love making friends, playing pool and having fun, but i don't like being f-ed with. play your game stop wasting my time.

I think what you are asking is impossible. When in a handicapped league people play the handicap game as well as the pool game. If you want to play pool and only play pool then you must not have any other games going on simultaneously.

Dave